To Bilstein or not? September 08, 2009, 11:09:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105667What an amazing vehicle the Lazy Daze is! The fit and finish, the quality of the workmanship, and the thoughtful logic of the floor plan is something to marvel at. We brought our Rear Bath home without a hitch last weekend, making the trip in two days from the Bay area to Long Beach, California. "Bella Bear" dealt with the California roads as best she could. As you all know, the California state budget is in shambles and I can't imagine much needed road repair being done in the upcoming years. Our rig is a 2004 with 29,000 miles, and is in fine shape. Our RV was essentially unloaded as we flew up to San Jose to bring her home. New Goodyear tires were installed with about 70 pounds of pressure in each. We'll have Tireman extenders installed her in Long Beach next week. My question is to Bilstein shock or not? Given the condition of the roads, the age of the shocks, and the fact that the roads are only going to get rougher and rougher, would making the change give us any appreciable improvement on our ride?Any comments or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I can't tell you how great it is to be a member of this great community. Thanks again for all your sage advice.Thanks,Jules and Sue
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #1 – September 08, 2009, 11:38:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105669....question is to Bilstein shock or not?.QuoteThanks, Jules and Sue Dear Jules and Sue - We have an '07RB which we bought from LD with Bilstein shocks installed - I'm sure there are others on group who can get into details of tech stuff on these shocks - All I can say is we enjoy really smooth rides in Starr - Now when we are on really beat up highways we do have thuds, rattles and Oh My's but overall the Bilstein Shocks are just FAB - Would recommend you get them - Also consider Super Springs on the rear axles - I've learned the weight ratio on rear axle of the RB could use a bit of assistance - We also tow -Virginia, Jim and Cricket Starr and Midnight Roadie
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #2 – September 09, 2009, 12:30:58 am Yahoo Message Number: 105674When we picked up our vintage 85 22' FL I noticed a little sloppiness in the handling. When we would drive over speedbumps in the parking lots, I could tell the shocks were bottoming out. You need to consider the current ride quality you are experiencing. We needed new shocks, and chose the Bilsteins. They are pricey if you ask me, but I believe they make an excellent product. So if money is no object than you can't go wrong...IMHO. Regards, John in Orange ca.
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #3 – September 09, 2009, 09:06:57 am Yahoo Message Number: 105683Jules and Sue,Few people have driven an LD with both stock and Bilstein's, so few will be able to report the difference before and after. That includes us. We have them and the ride is fine, even in CA. The ride will be a little different after you have loaded her. 29,000 miles is not that much for shocks. PS, All to soon other states will join CA in lack of road maintenance.Cheers, Don
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #4 – September 09, 2009, 10:05:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 105689"Our RV was essentially unloaded as we flew up to San Jose to bring her home. New Goodyear tires were installed with about 70 pounds of pressure in each.... My question is to Bilstein shock or not? Would making the change give us any appreciable improvement on our ride?" It's impossible to know for sure, but the answer is probably "no." On this trip, your tire pressures were almost certainly way too high for the load, so you had a rougher ride than you would have had with a normal load and correct tire pressures. My suggestion: load the rig normally, get it weighed (getting separate weights for front and rear axles) at a truckstop, and inflate the tires to the pressures recommended by Goodyear for those axle weights. (You'll find charts on Goodyear's website; be sure to use the one for your particular tire model and size.) Try a few trips and see how it feels. Unless the current shocks are really shot, I'm betting the ride will improve noticeably with normal loading and correct tire pressures. At that point you can decide whether to get Bilsteins, but I'm betting you won't need 'em. This is not to say anything against Bilsteins--I've had them on both my rigs--but they're not magic, and unless your rig is wallowing badly when normally loaded (which would indicate your current shocks are bad), they're unlikely to improve the ride much, if any. When it's time to replace your current shocks, *then* go with Bilsteins. That's my two cents' worth, anyway.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #5 – September 09, 2009, 10:13:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 105690"Few people have driven an LD with both stock and Bilstein's, so few will be able to report the difference before and after." For what it's worth, I have. My 1985 22' twin/king Lazy Daze came with generic shocks, and I replaced them with Bilsteins (my philosophy was "Nothing is too good for Gertie" ;-). I was surprised to find that there was little noticeable difference... and what there was, I suspected was due to placebo effect--I just felt better I knowing I had super-duper shocks. Now, I wouldn't want to extrapolate too far based on this experience, as others have reported more noticeable changes after upgrading to Bilsteins. (And I should note that there's a consensus that they are probably not ideal for smaller, lighter Lazy Dazes like my 22' T/K.) But for what it's worth, I have tried it both ways, and didn't see a lot of difference.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #6 – September 09, 2009, 11:46:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 105697wrote: Our RV was essentially unloaded as we flew up to San Jose to bring her home. New Goodyear tires were installed with about 70 pounds of pressure in each. My question is to Bilstein shock or not? Given the condition of the roads, the age of the shocks, and the fact that the roads are only going to get rougher and rougher, would making the change give us any appreciable improvement on our ride? --- I go along with Andy's advice about weighing your rig fully loaded and ready for the road and determining the tire pressures from these numbers. I suggest weighing the rig on all four corners, not just the front and rear axles. To get as accurate a weight as possible, weigh the rig with passengers, pets, about a half tank of water, and all the equipment and supplies that would normally accompany you on a trip. What you haul along will change as you develop your travel style; re-weigh when/if you make any major load changes. Weighing your loaded rig is really the only accurate method of determining correct tire pressures. Shock absorbers are a critical part of a vehicle's suspension system; this page offers a good explanation of "how they work" and what their purpose is: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-suspension2.htmSome may not agree, but IMO, Bilstein (or Koni) shocks can and do make a big difference (over the OEM Ford shocks, especially in the 26.5' and 30' models) in improving overall ride quality, handling, and control. I live in CA and agree that we have the unfortunate distinction of suffering the *worst* roads in the country, and if one plans to do a lot of traveling just about anywhere in this state, *anything* that one can do to improve the ride on any and all of our vehicles is well worth the expenditure. I suggest having a (qualified, competent, experienced-with-Ford-chassis) suspension shop check the shocks (and shock bushings and the rest of the suspension components) currently on your motorhome; if the shocks are worn or "marginal", you might consider replacing them with Bilsteins or Konis. (And/or Monroe; I am not familiar with how effective these are on the Ford E450 chassis.) If and when you do replace the shocks on your motorhome and give the "new ride" a good test on our dismal road surfaces, please report your experiences; thanks.
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #7 – September 09, 2009, 12:32:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105699Our 1983 LD's suspension bottomed badly, even after rebuilding the front suspension and adding air bags to the rear. I had tried some inexpensive replacement shocks without any improvement. Changing to Bilsteins made a big difference. Our new 2003 23.5' LD was not available with optional Bilsteins. LD though the 23.5' E450 would ride too hard so they left the stock shocks in place. Still wanting Bilsteins, I acquired two sets of Bilsteins, one set of the 'standard' shocks and a set of the softer riding 'comforts'. Over several thousand miles I tried the three types, one set at a time, on California's famous I-5 test highway. The stock shocks gave the smoothest and quietest ride but did not handle bigger bumps well. The Comforts ride is very similar to the stock shocks but handles the bumps better. The regular Bilsteins gave the best handling and bump control but transmit much more harshness and noise in the coach. With the lighter 23.5', my conclusion was to run the Bilsteins comforts in the front and rear. A heavier 27' or 31' LD should use the standard Bilsteins. Since we usually tow, we appreciate the softer, quieter ride while driving in the shattered right truck lanes of I-5. Over forty thousand miles later, I'm still happy with the comforts and have notice no change. YMMV Several thousand miles ago I did notice that the front shocks seemed not to be working well. Art posted his experience with one of the front Bilsteins top bushing breaking and falling out. Checking our LD's front shocks, I found both top bushings to be loose, due to compression of the rubber bushing. A quick tightening cured the problem. This is something for all Bilstein owners to check. It's tough to see or even touch the front top bushings so they are easy to ignore Check them!! The biggest advantage of Bilsteins, compared to stock shocks, is their longevity. They run for tens of thousands of miles without degrading. If the stock shocks are more to your liking, you can get them from LD very cheaply. They sell the take-offs from new LD equipped with optional Bilsteins.Larry
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #8 – September 09, 2009, 12:42:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105701Even though our 1997 RB has Bilstein's and anti-sway bars the Anti-Sway mentioned in the URL below is probably the feature I miss the most about the Foretravel. It had air bag suspension. Active as you drove along. Virtually NO SWAY on corners. It felt like we were on rails.best, paul"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon)
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #9 – September 09, 2009, 12:50:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105702The Bilsteins we had on our 2003 MB were no match for the tope's in Mexico. After a 5,000 mile trip in Mexico I noted a rattle on the front right. The shocks were being town apart. Even though they were after-market Ford replaced them (with stock Ford shocks) at no cost under warranty. I still haven't figured that out.best, paul"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon)
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #10 – September 09, 2009, 02:19:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105705"After a 5,000 mile trip in Mexico I noted a rattle on the front right. The shocks were being town apart."PaulDid the shock body fail or was it the upper bushing? I'm betting on the bushing.Larry
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #11 – September 09, 2009, 02:22:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105707wrote: Our new 2003 23.5' LD was not available with optional Bilsteins. LD though the 23.5' E450 would ride too hard so they left the stock shocks in place. --- Ed did try -- really, really hard! ;-) -- to convince me that I did *not* need or want Bilsteins on my 23.5', delivered in November of 2003, but I persevered and LD installed the Bilsteins. After a 5000-mile "test drive", I also installed front and rear anti-sway bars and a Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer. Everyone's needs and wants and what each considers "must haves" on their rigs are all over the lot, but, IMO, a good assessment of the value of after-market equipment is to ask yourself whether you would add the same equipment and/or make the same "tweaks" again on a subsequently-purchased motorhome; I would. I *like* the ride with my heavy-duty, no nonsense Teutonic-to-the-max big girl shocks! (And the other suspension stuff, too, of course!) And, thanks, Larry, for the reminder to check the bushings; I have done so twice, and will again.Joan (Shortly heading to Oregon with a stop at Henderson's for an alignment and Safe-T-Plus adjustment...)
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #12 – September 09, 2009, 06:53:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105722QuoteWhen we picked up our vintage 85 22' FL I noticed a little sloppiness in the handling. When we would drive over speedbumps in the parking lots, I could tell the shocks were bottoming out. You need to consider the current ride quality you are experiencing. We needed new shocks, and chose the Bilsteins. They are pricey if you ask me, but I believe they make an excellent product. So if money is no object than you can't go wrong...IMHO. Regards, John in Orange ca. While these shocks are definitely the way to go with this Chevy chassis, be sure you also check out the pitman arm and idler arm in the steering linkage - weak links almost certain to need replacement at this vintage. It is easy to check for sloppiness by observing the linkage movement while someone turns the steering gently back-and-forth with the engine off. Emergency handling can be dangerous if these are worn, even if normal handling seems fine.Steve
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #13 – September 09, 2009, 09:32:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105731Good point Steve. I got on google when I first got rolling with you guys here and found out there wqas a recall notice about the early chevy pitman arms. I copied this and took it to my mechanic. He said it checked out fine, must of been replaced already. Hope he was sincere.....
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #14 – September 09, 2009, 11:29:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105734Thank you all for your collective wisdom. We'll be taking her out of several trips, more fully loaded and go from there. If we proceed with shocks, can anyone recommend a mechanic that you'd trust in the Long Beach, CA or Orange County area?Jules and Sue
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #15 – September 10, 2009, 01:29:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 105742I know some folks here have had less than desireable experiences with this outfit, but CAMPING WORLD in La Mirada ordered my shocks and installed them. The bolt on shocks isn't a big deal, its getting the chubby guys up on a lift to do the work. Give em a call and see what happens. Right off the 5 freeway. John in Orange, CA.
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #16 – September 10, 2009, 10:45:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 105748Quote"After a 5,000 mile trip in Mexico I noted a rattle on the front right. The shocks were being town apart."PaulDid the shock body fail or was it the upper bushing? I'm betting on the bushing.Larry I just replaced the top bushings on my 03 Bilsteins. The coach came new with the Bilsteins installed by LD. I think the top bushings failed because the mounting bolts were overtightened.Norm
Re: To Bilstein or not? Reply #17 – September 10, 2009, 11:44:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105770I did not see the Bilsteins after removal. From what I was told there was separation of mounting metal, not just bushings.best, paul"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon)
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