Aluminum Skin Oxidation July 21, 2009, 06:10:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104068Thanks to all who provided comments refarding brakes on a vehilce being towed. I have not heard from anyone concerning the "oxidation bubbles" in the outer skin of my 1990 LD. There are a few along one side and several just above the rear bumper. I suspect these spots will only get worse if not repaired. If I don't hear from someone who might have experience with this repair, I will proceed to clean the spots out and fill the holes with some kind of body filler and repaint.JBI
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #1 – July 21, 2009, 06:33:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104069QuoteI have not heard from anyone concerning the "oxidation bubbles" in the outer skin of my 1990 LD. There are a few along one side and several just above the rear bumper. I suspect these spots will only get worse if not repaired. If I don't hear from someone who might have experience with this repair, I will proceed to clean the spots out and fill the holes with some kind of body filler and repaint. For what it's worth, I just removed all the bubbles in my 82 LD a month ago. I simply scraped them off, then used sand paper to get to the clean (non-oxidized) alumminum, then I put on 1 or 2 layers (depending on how bad) of metal primer. Once the primer dried (in a few hours), I smoothed it with fine sandpaper, and put on the final matched paint. It's far from a professional job, but it's much better than before.Sam
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #2 – July 21, 2009, 07:06:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104070QuoteI have not heard from anyone concerning the "oxidation bubbles" in the outer skin of my 1990 LD.> JBI This condition is generally caused by moisture behind the surface for an extended period of time. Oxidation is almost always due to a water leak which if not repaired can cause extensive damage. Before you cover the blemishes, be sure to fix the underlying problem. Fixing the surface only without solving the more serious problem will surely be more expensive in the long run.Pleinguy LD Wannabe http://www.landscapesartstudio.com/
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #3 – July 21, 2009, 07:39:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104071This subject is the biggest sticking point on our 85 FL. We have these blemishes on both sides and the back of our rig. I remember when we stopped in at the factory about 6 months ago and I had a brief discussion with the young man who is the current service manager. His eyes got kinda wide as I described the ruddy complexion of our rig and pretty much wanted to go on to another topic. I have seen other LD's with the same color scheme and they also suffered from peeling paint and bubbles on the skin. Sadly I cringe whenever I gaze upon what otherwise is a most satisfying part of our family.... John in the ol 85"
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #4 – July 21, 2009, 07:50:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104072QuoteThis condition is generally caused by moisture behind the surface for an extended period of time. Oxidation is almost always due to a water leak which if not repaired can cause extensive damage. A break in the paint surface (paint & primer) left long enough is sufficient to cause a "leak". All the bubbles that I fixed on my 82 LD were just that. None were cause by REAL leak. If it were a REAL leak, it could be easily seen by anyone after removing the bubble.Sam
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #5 – July 21, 2009, 07:55:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104073John, Not sure how bad yours is compared to mine (3 years older). But getting rid of those bubbles on mine was a very easy job.
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #6 – July 21, 2009, 10:57:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104077I can't imagine that moisture behind the sk
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #7 – July 21, 2009, 11:07:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104078I did not have any hole through the skin. As I replied earlier, I used metal primer on the bare aluminum before repainting.Sam
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #8 – July 21, 2009, 11:10:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104079Thanks Sam. I will beg
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #9 – July 22, 2009, 01:46:19 am Yahoo Message Number: 104081Quote from: James Irvin Thanks Sam. I will begin working on my "spots" soon. If there is a hole, I guess I will go to an auto parts store and find a suitable filler.James: May I suggest that you use a self etching primer on the aluminum after you clean off the corrosion. It will adhere much better, and is factory recommended for bare aluminum.Lon in N. CA
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #10 – July 22, 2009, 02:25:47 am Yahoo Message Number: 104082Quote From: Lon To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:46 PM Subject: [LD] Re: Aluminum Skin OxidationJames: May I suggest that you use a self etching primer on the aluminum after you clean off the corrosion. It will adhere much better, and is factory recommended for bare aluminum.Lon in N. CAOr, you might use Jasco Metal-Prep (green stuff available at Home Depot - $6 a quart). It's basically a mild phosphoric acid solution with detergents and surficants. Apply, wait 15 seconds or so, wash off with water and let dry. Then you can use whatever regular primer or paint you like and it will adhere to the aluminum just fine. Also useful for steel and is a rust converter.bumper
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #11 – July 22, 2009, 11:24:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 104088Quote from: jbicco@..." There are a few along one side and several just above the rear bumper. I suspect these spots will only get worse if not repaired. If I don't hear from someone who might have experience with this repair, I will proceed to clean the spots out and fill the holes with some kind of body filler and repaint.JBIHello JBI. You mention that you have bubbles on one side and above the rear bumper. Is the one side the driver's side? If so, I would also have to state that there may be a moisture buildup on the inside of the coach on that wall.Terry Terzian '92 TK
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #12 – July 22, 2009, 03:42:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104098Thanks Lon. Just the kind of information I was looking for.Jim
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #13 – July 29, 2009, 12:22:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104274"If I don't hear from someone who might have experience with this repair, I will proceed to clean the spots out and fill the holes with some kind of body filler and repaint."JBI I have found two different type of aluminum skin damage; surface bubbling and rot clear through. Sanding, etching and repainting usually fix surface bubbling. Through damage needs to cleaned, filled (with Bondo or other plastic filler), sanded and painted. On several through the skin repairs, the cause of the oxidation damage has been staples or screw tips touching the aluminum skin, setting up electrolysis. The metal needs to be removed or cut back before filling so that it does not continue to cause problems.Larry
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #14 – July 29, 2009, 01:52:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104281"On several through the skin repairs, the cause of the oxidation damage has been staples or screw tips touching the aluminum skin, setting up electrolysis. The metal needs to be removed or cut back before filling so that it does not continue to cause problems." One other factor to keep in mind is moisture. You can have a steel staple touching an aluminum panel for years and nothing bad will happen... until they get wet. If you have electrolysis, you've had moisture in your walls at some point, and it would be good to find out how it got in and stop the leak.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #15 – July 29, 2009, 05:15:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104285"On several through the skin repairs, the cause of the oxidation damage has been staples or screw tips touching the aluminum skin, setting up electrolysis. The metal needs to be removed or cut back before filling so that it does not continue to cause problems."Isn't electrolyses caused by static electricity as well?Ellen[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #16 – July 29, 2009, 10:35:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104297"Isn't electrolysis caused by static electricity as well?"Here's the definition, courtesy of Wikipedia: Electrolysis is the passage of an electric current through an ionic substance that is either molten or dissolved in a suitable solvent, resulting in chemical reactions at the electrodes and separation of materials.The main components required to achieve electrolysis are:A liquid containing mobile ions - an electrolyteAn external source of direct electric currentTwo solid rods or plates known as electrodes By definition, you can't have electrolysis without a liquid.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #17 – July 29, 2009, 10:47:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104300Quote From: Ellen To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Aluminum Skin OxidationIsn't electrolyses caused by static electricity as well?Ellen Electrolyses normally requires dissimilar conductive materials, moisture, and a difference in electrical potential to cause current flow between those conductive materials. Note that there doesn't have to be an outside "source" of electricity in the normal sense, as the dissimilar materials can serve as the plates of a "battery", moisture will act as the battery's electrolyte, and current flow will occur along with relatively rapid corrosion.bumper
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #18 – July 29, 2009, 11:32:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104302Here's the definition, courtesy of Wikipedia>> How about if you have a scenario of static buildup somewhere in the vehicle due to improper grounding and such or tires which generated a static buildup in the vehicle when driven under certain conditions?Ellen[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #19 – July 30, 2009, 11:11:34 am Yahoo Message Number: 104308I have replaced most of my exterior hardware, screws, etc... with stainless steel... Will that cause any problems with electrolysis different that what could be experienced with the regular steel screws and fittings??Ed Klaus
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #20 – July 30, 2009, 11:16:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 104309Having been a boater for years prior to getting into RV's, I know that a sacrificial Anode made from Zinc, but
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #21 – July 30, 2009, 12:09:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104315Quote From: twocreative4words To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:16 AM Subject: [LD] Re: Aluminum Skin OxidationHaving been a boater for years prior to getting into RV's, I know that a sacrificial Anode made from Zinc, but in a boaters case, it is usually limited to a small area near the engine containing aluminum parts. Not sure if this could even apply since the area where aluminum is used is so large... Thoughts??Ed Klaus Don't have experience with SS screws or zinc anodes and LD's . . . but with electrolysis or galvanic corrosion, the least noble of the dissimilar metals will corrode first . . . On small airplanes, non-structural screws are often replaced with stainless steel ones. Due to the dissimilar materials involved (the nutplate remains carbon steel, now there's three metals involved :c) . . . it is wise to use anti-sieze (I like Permatex brand) on the screw threads to prevent corrosion and stuck fasteners. Sacraficial zinc anodes are not in common use in small aircraft aluminum airframes. However, zinc-chromate primer has been used for years and provides similar protection for aluminum. Zinc-chromate primer has become difficult to find and more expensive due to EPA regs etc.bumper Yonder Minden NV
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #22 – July 30, 2009, 02:41:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104319On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:11:23 -0000, "twocreative4words" wrote:QuoteI have replaced most of my exterior hardware, screws, etc... with stainless steel... Will that cause any problems with electrolysis different that what could be experienced with the regular steel screws and fittings?? I do not know. My guess is perhaps slightly better. Changing the subject to corrosion from exposure to a salt environment. I saw an LD that spent a lot time on the coast. The salty water condensed on the screws of the cab over and rusted the screws. If you happen to be in a coastal area, you may have avoided that problem with your new fasteners. There are many types of SS, some more resistant to rust than others. I would have to research to see which ones are best at resisting corrosion. Perhaps screws graded 316? It's been too many years since I needed to know that and too many brain cells have withered and died in the meanwhile. Call Hinkley Yachts in Maine and ask them what they use. Parked on Bear Lake in Colorado at 9.700 feet in light hail and rain. What a difference from similar elevations in Utah.Cheers, Don
Re: Aluminum Skin Oxidation Reply #23 – July 30, 2009, 06:55:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104322"How about if you have a scenario of static buildup somewhere in the vehicle...?" Static electricity cannot cause electrolysis if no moisture is present, as I explained. There's no connection between the two. In fact, they're pretty much mutually exclusive, because a static charge can't build up in damp conditions... the charge will bleed off through humid air. On the other hand, as Bumper pointed out, if moisture is present, then there need be no external source of electricity--two dissimilar metals can form a weak battery and generate their own current, as long as the metals are in contact and wet. Static doesn't damage metals. The key here is moisture. Without it, you can't have electrolysis. With it, you have problems... which brings us back to my original point: if you have electrolysis bubbles in the aluminum skin of your Lazy Daze, there's a good chance you have moisture inside the walls, and that's something that should be dealt with pronto. There are two places where that moisture could originate: from a leak, or from condensation due to cold conditions outside and warm, humid conditions inside. The LD's relatively thick insulation should minimize the latter situation, but it's a possibility. If you often see your windows fog up, there may also be condensation inside your walls. But from what I've seen, the most likely cause of moisture inside walls is a leak--on the roof, around a window frame, or elsewhere.Andy Baird
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Topic: Aluminum Skin Oxidation (Read 32 times)
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