New Class C Problems December 08, 2007, 07:33:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 86906Lately there have been several comments that Lazy Daze may not be up to snuff on new coach quality. Andy and others have contested this. If anyone wants to see "typical" new coach problems, there are many sites that list these. I will quote a few reviews from the RV America site, owners review section, deleting the company names. "Our XXXX has had quite a few annoying problems. The XXXXX people have been no help at all. We even took a trip to the factory in XXXXX which was not much help either. We have had separation of various body parts, fenders, front and rear panels and have not been able to correct this. The awning will not retract completely and has had problems since new! The battery isolator was defective. There are leaks around the bedroom window in the rear. Our unit is a XXXXX, 24'.""We sold our country coach class A pusher and purchased a XXXXX 3 slide XXXXX loaded with full body paint. This coach has been a nightmare roof leaks, electrical problems, door flys open going down road, has trapped us inside before.there are paint issues and many many other trim issues. XXXXX to this point has done very little for us this unit is 2 mos old and will be in dealers for safety isssues for a long time pss also slide in was crooked in hole and awning cannot be used, shower leaks and door fell off XXXXX just keeps saying we can fix it we believe its hard to fix design flaws beware consumers. Glenn"RV America has owners reviews, good and bad, on its site. We Lazy Dazers have it good. How good? Monday I depart (in the snow and all) from Colorado to California for the Christmas holidays with kids and family. The 1998 MB rig now has 180,000 miles and you must be getting tired of me telling you it still uses no oil between 5,000 mile changes and the oil analysis still comes back with no wear products in the report. We will pass 1,300 nights in the rig on this trip, and it still looks and performs great. It doesn't get any better than this. Merry Christmas to all and may we all have a prosperous and safe 2008.Gus Weber
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #1 – December 08, 2007, 11:01:59 am Yahoo Message Number: 86909--- "Gus Weber" wrote: "The 1998 MB rig now has 180,000 miles and you must be getting tired of me telling you it still uses no oil between 5,000 mile changes and the oil analysis still comes back with no wear products in the report." Gus, I actually look forward to your mileage reports. Your posts were one reason I did not hesitate to purchase a well-maintained LD with 74,000 miles.Safe travels to you and yours.Andrew 1999 23.5' TK, SF Bay Area
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #2 – December 08, 2007, 03:30:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86914Quote Lately there have been several comments that Lazy Daze may not be up to snuff on new coach quality. Andy and others have contested this. If anyone wants to see "typical" new coach problems, there are many sites that list these. I will quote a few reviews from the RV America site, owners review section, deleting the company names. Gus - the comments came from people that experienced a 2007 delivery. Perhaps they are anomalies but your experiences with your 1998 model are not readily transferable to the 2007's. I too took delivery in 2007 and I hade a very nice experience - Dave was the guy that did our check out. Vince did some follow-up. There were few issues and they are primarily cosmetic except for two significant problems. I wasn't hugged on the way out by Steve but I didn't expect that. First, the TV went out in week 2. No big deal. Jensen authorized a replacement and LD did it - for me it meant a 1/2 day to drive up and back plus gas. Second, due to a change in wheel design by Ford, the valve extenders Steve used to put in new coaches no longer worked. I pointed this out at delivery and Steve said that he's working on a fix and when he had one, he'd let me know and fix it. A month later when we had the TV replaced there still wasn't a fix....and when I asked again (by e-mail) I got this (November): "Steve is still working on designing a kit. Of course this is among the tons of other things he has to deal with each day. We don't know of anyone in S.D. that would have a solution." I found someone who had a solution, had it fixed, and sent Steve a note asking to get reimbursed - $113.This is the answer I got: "Thanks for the info. Steve is aware of these style stems, but changing out the valve stems is not an option for us. He said the price you paid wasn't bad. However our kit is considerably less expensive to do because we are not removing tires and valve stems.Through out the year, venders change their components continually without advance notice. For that reason, we put "prices and specifications are subject to change at anytime" in our sales literature. This is an on going battle and we cannot offer upgrades or credits when it occurs.In some cases customers receive a newer more expensive upgraded component, however we have never charged additional for it. In your case, you received the new upgraded H.D T.V. in your coach rather than the standard T.V. that most of the 07' customers before you received."Now tell me - is this what you would have expected as an answer? I think, based on what you and Andy post and what I and others have experienced recently, the transition to Steve's leadership is impacting on the business. Maybe it's just a phase, but until I get a check for $113 (maybe you can ask Steve for me?) I will reserve judgement.andy
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #3 – December 08, 2007, 04:30:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86920QuoteI found someone who had a solution, had it fixed, and sent Steve a note asking to get reimbursed - $113.Now tell me - is this what you would have expected as an answer? Before you had the tire problem "fixed," did you call the factory to get their OK? If you didn't call them first and just had the stems replaced expecting to be reimbursed, their answer doesn't surprise me at all...it's what I would have expected from any RV manufacturer. One should never have work done expecting the factory to reimburse the expense without first clearing it with them.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #4 – December 08, 2007, 06:04:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86926"I found someone who had a solution, had it fixed, and sent Steve a note asking to get reimbursed - $113. Now tell me - is this what you would have expected as an answer?"Yes. The factory supplies *extenders*, and according to them, they still intend to do that at no charge, so if you had waited, you would have gotten a free fix eventually.But you had extra-long *replacement valve stems* installed, a much more expensive proposition. That's not something Lazy Daze includes on their coaches, so it's not reasonable to ask them to pay for what amounts to a significant upgrade--especially without prior approval. If you had bought valve *extenders* instead, I expect the factory would have paid for them. To use an analogy: suppose the factory had been unable to install the normal TV set on your rig, because they were out of stock... and suppose that instead of waiting for them to put in the promised 20" (or whatever) set, you went ahead and had a 40" plasma TV installed, and then asked to be reimbursed.You see my point. The factory can reasonably be expected to pay for what they promised in the spec sheet (though it's always good to ask before you install)--but not for an upgrade, which is what your $113 stems were.While you won't be reimbursed for the extra-long stems you had installed, it was money well spent, in my opinion, since long stems are better and more reliable than extenders.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #5 – December 09, 2007, 09:52:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 86949Quote I found someone who had a solution, had it fixed, and sent Steve a note asking to get reimbursed - $113.Now tell me - is this what you would have expected as an answer? Before you had the tire problem "fixed," did you call the factory to get their OK? If you didn't call them first and just had the stems replaced expecting to be reimbursed, their answer doesn't surprise me at all...it'sQuotewhat I would have expected from any RV manufacturer. One should never have work done expecting the factory to reimburse the expense without first clearing it with them.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/ The funny thing is - I agree with you when you said "it's what I would have expected from any RV manufacturer." That was the point of this whole thread - that LD is above any other RV manufacturer.andy
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #6 – December 09, 2007, 10:46:14 am Yahoo Message Number: 86950wrote: "That was the point of this whole thread - that LD is above any other RV manufacturer." --- If by being "above any other RV manufacturer", you mean that Lazy Daze should feel obligated to compensate you for your *personal and independent decision* to have long valves installed, I don't agree. IMO, this expectation is unreasonable, no matter how much "above" the norm a business might be. You apparently just assumed that since the factory wasn't able *at that time* to install "extenders", they would reimburse you for money spent in finding your own solution. I don't buy it; IMO, you're on your own hook for expenses you *freely chose* to incur. YMMV.Joan
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #7 – December 09, 2007, 11:42:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 86956Let me put in a plug for Discount Tire in connection with Joan's comment. We bought 6 new tires from them before we went to the East Coast earlier this fall. About a week later we found one of the front wheel covers to be missing while we were in SC. Apparently one of the workers at Discount Tires had not secured it correctly. I ordered a new wheel cover from LD (about $70 with shipping as I remember) to be shipped to Texas. As a afterthought, I called the Discount Tire place in New Braunfels and asked if they had any insurance that would cover it. They indicated that they had no insurance, but that I should come by and they would make good on it. A month later, I brought the invoice to Discount Tire, expecting them to balk at the $70 price. Not only did they pay the price and shipping with no question, but they even thanked me for handling getting the replacement myself so they did not have to do it.That's good customer relations.Barry 2001 Red RB, TX Where are we? http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=122
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #8 – December 11, 2007, 07:46:58 am Yahoo Message Number: 87034Quote wrote: "That was the point of this whole thread - that LD is above any other RV manufacturer." --- If by being "above any other RV manufacturer", you mean that Lazy Daze should feel obligated to compensate you for your *personal and independent decision* to have long valves installed, I don't agree. IMO, this expectation is unreasonable, no matter how much "above" the norm a business might be. You apparently just assumed that since the factory wasn't able *at that time* to install "extenders", they would reimburse you for money spent in finding your own solution. I don't buy it; IMO, you're on your own hook for expenses you *freely chose* to incur. YMMV.Joan I was promised a fix. The fix cost me $113.What do you think it would it have cost Steve?andy
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #9 – December 11, 2007, 03:35:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87049"I was promised a fix. The fix cost me $113." All fixes are not the same. You're still overlooking the fact that the fix you paid to install was a different and much more expensive one than the fix Lazy Daze promised.If you had waited, you would have gotten exactly what was promised, and at no cost to you. You have a legitimate gripe about that delay... but not about the fact that they won't pay for what you chose to install, which is NOT what they promised to provide."What do you think it would it have cost Steve?"$113 or more. I can say that with confidence, because Lazy Daze doesn't have the tire mounting/demounting equipment to install long stems of the type you picked out for yourself... so Steve would have had to go to an outside tire shop just as you did, and pay what you paid. I'll say it one more time: the factory promised you A as part of your purchase price, but you installed a much more expensive B. It's not reasonable to ask them to pay for B.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #10 – December 11, 2007, 05:37:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87056Quote wrote:; IMO, you're on your own hook for expenses you *freely chose* to incur. YMMV.JoanI was promised a fix. The fix cost me $113.What do you think it would it have cost Steve?andy No more than one quarter that. The going rate for any manufacturing bussiness in California is 3 to 4 times the hourly wage of the professionals doing the work. I am sure Steve's people are highly paid professionals. So what was the problem and what was the fix? I am not the brightest of indidales.Terry and Peggy92 TK RED
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #11 – December 12, 2007, 06:30:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 87076Quote "I was promised a fix. The fix cost me $113."All fixes are not the same. Steve promised to make checking and filling my tires easy - and he promised this when I signed the deal - that at the time of delivery, I'd have easily accessible valves. And that didn't happen and two months later it still hadn't happened.Now I do. $113 is hardly usurious.andy
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #12 – December 12, 2007, 06:42:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 87077Quote wrote:; IMO, you're on your own hook for expenses you *freely chose* to incur. YMMV.JoanI was promised a fix. The fix cost me $113.What do you think it would it have cost Steve?andyNo more than one quarter that. The going rate for any manufacturing bussiness in California is 3 to 4 times the hourly wage of the professionals doing the work. I am sure Steve's people are highly paid professionals.So what was the problem and what was the fix? I am not the brightest of indidales.Terry and Peggy92 TK RED Terry -The tire valves on a dually aren't the easiest to access. So, typically, LD adds an extension to the inners and a U shaped extension to the outers and bolts them to the rims. Six of these extensions (the metal braided ones) plus the brackets cost in the $50 - $70 range. It takes about an hour to do this right. Labor and overhead costs would add another $50 or so to the cost making a total cost in the $100 to $120 range - EXACTLY what I paid. My fix was a bit different - rather than using aftermarket extensions and brackets, the existing 1 inch valves were replaced by a set of 6 longer valves. This requires a different type of labor (the wheels are removed, deflated, and then reinstalled) but not any different amount of time. The cost of the valves is about the same.Some argue that replacing rather than extending is a better fix.Bottom line - IMO customer service today at LD, at least in this instance, is not the "exceptional" level others have shared as being their experience in the past.andy
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #13 – December 12, 2007, 11:22:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 87085Quote From: andymaryjonathan"Bottom line - IMO customer service today at LD, at least in this instance, is not the "exceptional" level others have shared as being their experience in the past.andy"Andymaryjonathan, I think this one should be put to bed. The other Andy, and others too, have expressed the idea that if you didn't get factory prior approval to have the fix done elsewhere, then you are on your own - - and I agree. This was not an emergency situation and could have waited for the LD to provide the promised fix. My '05 MB was delivered without longer valves or extensions. That's the way they came back then. I went for at least a couple of months before getting the longer valve stems installed, and at my expense. During that time I was still able to check the air on the inside tires - - it's just not so convenient to do so.bumper
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #14 – December 12, 2007, 08:37:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87106Quote wrote:The tire valves on a dually aren't the easiest to access. So, typically, LD adds an extension to the inners and a U shaped extension to the outers and bolts them to the rims. Six of these extensions (the metal braided ones) plus the brackets cost in the $50 - $70 range. It takes about an hour to do this right. Labor and overhead costs would add another $50 or so to the cost making a total cost in the $100 to $120 range - EXACTLY what I paid. What I meant is that sure the value of any service may be the going rate, but the hourly wage Steve would have put out to his crew to resolve the issue with new braided components is much less than the going bussines rate. But yes, he would have been out hours of precious manufacturing time.QuoteMy fix was a bit different - rather than using aftermarket extensions and brackets, the existing 1 inch valves were replaced by a set of 6 longer valves. This requires a different type of labor (the wheels are removed, deflated, and then reinstalled) but not any different amount of time. The cost of the valves is about the same.Some argue that replacing rather than extending is a better fix.Bottom line - IMO customer service today at LD, at least in this instance, is not the "exceptional" level others have shared as being their experience in the past.andy You did get what we all got, the RV standard for easy tire pressure mantainance, the braided hoses. The previous owner of my rig used them for 12 years. I put out my own cash for something that Lazy Daze does not offer, the TireMan Valves. I like them alot. They just don't come from Ford, so Steve puts on the braided hoses. You really can't fault him for that. You are better off anyway, in the end I think you would have ponied up the cash. Well, you have given me some good points to ponder. Certainly welcome to the crazy world called Lazy Daze. LOLTerry
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #15 – December 12, 2007, 10:18:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87110--- "andymaryjonathan" wrote: QuoteBottom line - IMO customer service today at LD, at least in this instance, is not the "exceptional" level others have shared as being their experience in the past. Andy J., has LD categorically denied your reimbursement request? Your first post on this thread seemed to imply you are still waiting for a response. If so, perhaps your comment about reserving judgement is still valid. I agree that the accounts on this group have almost always been of a company that goes out of their way to accommodate customers. They send parts and pay for them to get installed. I think the difference in your situation is you simply did not ask before taking action. I doubt it's a question of cutting a $113 check vs spending $xxx for parts, labor & overhead.Andrew 1999 23.5' TK, SF Bay Area
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #16 – December 12, 2007, 10:26:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87111JIMMANIE CHRISTMASS!!! ARE WE EVER GONNA HEAR THE END OF THIS? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Original message from "A. Thio" bearthio@...>:
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #17 – December 12, 2007, 10:46:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87112I think it's time to end this thread, unless new information from Lazy Daze should surface. We've discussed all sides of this topic, and the consensus is pretty clear... so let's move on, shall we? :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #18 – December 13, 2007, 10:52:23 am Yahoo Message Number: 87117Yes we need to get back to "Cult" status... Garry
Re: New Class C Problems Reply #19 – December 15, 2007, 03:35:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87218I laughed so hard even I contributed to the green house effect! bumperm bumperm@...> wrote: "
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