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HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Yahoo Message Number: 86651
I'm wondering if I buy just the tuner, if I can watch basic cable, with just a regular TV and a basic antenna? Is anybody doing this and is it working well for them? I don't car about HD, it really doesn't look that much different to me, than regular TV. I just want to be able to pick-up A & E, History Channel, Animal Planet, etc. Without having a cable bill.
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86653
On Dec 2, 2007, at 14:51, rb_cmpbll wrote:

Quote
I'm wondering if I buy just the tuner, if I can watch basic cable, with just a regular TV and a basic antenna? Is anybody doing this and is it working well for them? I don't car about HD,
Unfortunately you and everyone else will be forced to switch to digital (HD) in Feb-2009, when all conventional analog broadcasts go off the air.  Many of the cable providers are in the process of switching over to digital cable services already. YMMV locally wherever you are.

Quote
it really doesn't look that much different to me, than regular TV. I just want to be able to pick-up A & E, History Channel, Animal Planet, etc. Without having a cable bill.
I doubt it. The channels you mentioned are cable only, so they are not broadcast over the air anywhere (as far as I know anyway). A large portion of their revenue stream comes from cable subscriber fees. I would not expect that to change.

Any TV you buy now though, will receive both analog and digital.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86656
Quote
Unfortunately you and everyone else will be forced to switch to digital (HD) in Feb-2009,

 Help clear something up for me: While I know that all broadcasts will change to digital in 2009, I was under the impression that that does not mean all broadcasts will be HD.  In other words, HD *is* digital, but not all digital is HD.

Not true?

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Linda Hylton
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86657
Quote
...snip... In other words, HD *is* digital, but not all digital
is HD.
...snip...
You are correct Linda.

Dave N 2000 RB Albuquerque
Dave

2017 TK
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86658
"I just want to be able to pick-up A & E, History Channel, Animal Planet, etc. Without having a cable bill."
 And I'd like to pick twenty dollar bills off trees, but I can pretty much guarantee that's not going to happen either. ;-) There are no free lunches in the entertainment business, and there's no reason for those channels to suddenly start giving away for free what they're currently selling for money.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86659
On Dec 2, 2007, at 17:52, Linda & Earl Hylton wrote:

Quote
Help clear something up for me: While I know that all broadcasts will change to digital in 2009, I was under the impression that that does not mean all broadcasts will be HD.  In other words, HD *is* digital, but not all digital is HD.
To be specific, digital TV is known as the ATSC standard = Advanced Television Systems Committee, a standards body.  It includes HD, SD, and other marketing terms developed by the manufacturers.
 There is minor difference, but the effect is that ALL digital (ATSC) receivers are capable of receiving HD, therefore the terms have become essentially equivalent. The broadcaster determines whether the specific signal is HD, SD, or something else.  Whether a particular screen can display all of the fine detail available in the signal is determined by the resolution of the screen itself.  But all ATSC receivers will be able to display all ATSC signals.
 In March-07 (might have been Feb) it became illegal to sell any new TV receivers that were not capable of receiving ATSC digital broadcasts (HD, SD or whatever).
 In Feb-09, all conventional analog broadcasts (NTSC) will go off the air due to FCC mandate, so all of our older TVs will go dark. There are converters available from various vendors to convert digital broadcasts into analog. Camping World is pushing the winegard device.
I already have one installed in my MB (runs on 12V direct btw).

The biggest problem digital causes for us mobile users is antenna alignment. Our old analog TVs allowed us to turn on the TV and then twist the antenna for best signal.  Digital OTOH, always provides an absolutely perfect picture... or nothing at all.  How many of us have a clue where the nearest stations are located when we roll into a campsite.  Guess at the antenna orientation, scan 69 channels, twist the antenna, scan again, twist again, scan.  A major PIA.  Even the signal strength meters on the sets are of limited value when you may not even know what direction your vehicle is pointed, let alone where the stations are.
 Digital TV = ATSC = HD = SD,  all the same as far as the equipment is concerned.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86660
Quote
Help clear something up for me: While I know that all broadcasts
will change
 
Quote
to digital in 2009, I was under the impression that that does not
mean all
 
Quote
broadcasts will be HD.  In other words, HD *is* digital, but not all digital is HD.

Not true?
That is correct.
 Speaking now of only over the air signals, the shift to digital means the station will transmit a signal that carries 19.4M bits per second.
The sender of that signal can opt to send one very high definition MPEG-2 signal using the entire bandwidth or may opt instead to send two or three lower definition signals instead.  In Portland our HD stations often send multiple channels; one pretty high definition and one or two much lower definition channels at the same time.

If you get near a HD set, the channel number is something like 8.2 instead of just 8.  The number beyond the decimal is the sub-channel.
For example, on our channel 8, 8.1 is a pretty HD signal that is simulcast with their analog TV station, but 8.2 is a full time weather channel that has lots of static pictures that require very little bandwidth to transmit. Our Public TV station transmits three separate programs over its channel.

Now, be aware that the channels on cable TV systems are likely to remain analog for some time after the Feb 2009 change over date for the over the air signals.  CATV will probably, in time, also change over to a digital format.  But, while the payload will still be MPEG-2 digitally encoded video channels, the RF transmitted signal is quite different.
 The CATV industry opted not to use the over the air standard adopted by the ATSC and the FCC. (They could have, there was an ATSC standard created especially for them, but did not cooperate.)  Therefore, a set that receives an over the air digital signal might or might not receive a CATV digital signal.  My HD set happens to do so.  I have not heard if the inexpensive set top converter boxes (i.e. it accepts a digital input signal and creates an analog output signal for old TV sets) that will be offered over the next year will accept the CATV industry's digital signals.

Linley
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86662
"...There  are converters available from various vendors to convert digital  broadcasts into analog. Camping World is pushing the winegard device.  I already have one installed in my MB (runs on 12V direct btw)..."

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
 Dave, thanks for that concise tutorial on digital TV requirements for the future.  Do you think that the price of converters will come down as the March '09 date gets closer?  BTW, the CW Winegard converter gets pretty high marks from its reviewers.

Chris '02 30' Denver
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86663
The winegard is okay I guess, pretty easy to set up and use. The audio out of the unit though is very poor, it has a low level digital buzz in it and pretty low volume. Winegard knows that, but they shipped it anyway.
 Be aware though the winegard only provides direct video out, there is no ability to use it on many TVs without buying an external RF modulater (something else to plug in).  But the 15 inch Sharp LCD I have has component video inputs and it works pretty well with that.

I am guessing standalone ATSC receivers will become better featured and cheaper. It would not take much to compete with the winegard though.

[I remain pretty annoyed that LD did include a TV with an ATSC receiver in it. After all we were only months away from it being illegal to sell]

-Dave
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86666
[I remain pretty annoyed that LD did include a TV with an ATSC receiver in it. After all we were only months away from it being illegal to sell]

-Dave

Dave, didn't you mean NTSC in this paragraph ?

JC
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86679
Quote
The winegard is okay I guess, pretty easy to set up and use. The audio out of the unit though is very poor, it has a low level digital buzz in it and pretty low volume. Winegard knows that, but they shipped it anyway.
Dave, I looked at the Winegard at CW and the price as I recall was about $189.000.  Would one be better off in your opinion just to buy a new 12V TV with new tuner for same price? See my earlier post below.
In my case, I'm looking at the 13" built in models. The dimensions listed it looks like they will all fit in that 15 1/2" X 16" Cabinet in my 2003 MB. http://www.roadtrucker.com/electronics-4.htm Joe Hamm-San Jose
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86684
Quote
Help clear something up for me: While I know that all broadcasts
Speaking for the Los Angeles area, virtually all broadcasters are currently broadcasting in digital, and many with several choices of programming. E.g., KNBC has regular programming HD/SD on ch 4.1, 24-hour weather on 4.2 in SD, and 24 headline news on 4.4 in SD. The content on 4.1 is mostly in HD, depending on the source program. Ch 4 analog is currently still broadcast, with the same content as on 4.1.

This is typical of almost all broadcasters in this area, so on the conversion deadline, they will all simply drop the analog over-the-air transmissions.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86685
That is what I would do

======================== Dave Gingrich, K9DC Could be anywhere via the iPhone ========================
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86844
I was told by the salesman at Best Buy that there was no need to worry about HD in a set of the size that many motorhomes might use (under 25').  Can anyone else substantiate this?

Glen SOB

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1170 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 10:52 AM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86845
On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Glen R. Fotre, CCIM wrote:

Quote
I was told by the salesman at Best Buy that there was no need to worry about HD in a set of the size that many motorhomes might use (under 25").
Can anyone else substantiate this?
ALL TVs sold today are capable of receiving over the air HD broadcasts. It is illegal to sell a TV that cannot. Smaller sets of course may not be able to display true high definition to its full glory, but they will be able to receive HD and display it fine.

The only thing to worry about is not having a digital TV when the conventional analog broadcasts go off the air in 2009.
 I didn't know that Best Buy *had* any salesmen...  oh, I guess they don't  :)

Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86847
"I was told by the salesman at Best Buy that there was no need to worry about HD in a set of the size that many motorhomes might use (under 25"). Can anyone else substantiate this?"

I can substantiate that most salespeople at Best Buys (and Circuit City, etc.)  are utterly clueless. ;-) As a former electronics tech, I've found the level of misinformation in these stores truly disgusting.

What this person was trying to tell you was essentially that if you sit ten or fifteen feet away from a small screen, you probably won't notice the difference between regular and high-definition images. That may or may not be true, depending on your eyesight... but it fails to take into account the fact that we RVers sit much closer to our sets than a person with a 15' x 20' living room. The closer you sit, the more the picture quality matters.

I'm reminded of the mother of a friend of mine, who back in the 60s told her daughter not to bother spending extra for the stereo version of Beatles records (this was when mono LPS were cheaper), because "after all, it's just four boys, so they'll all be in the center channel anyway--not like a symphony orchestra that's spread out across a stage." ;-)
 In any case, all TV is going to be HD in the not so distant future, so it seems be silly to buy a non-HD-capable set at this point.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: HDTV tuner and watching basic cable on a conventional TV
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86883
Hi Andy, Linda and I put a HD TV 20 inch LG in our MH and it is just great on our regular satelite. I cannot believe how good the picture appears. It is just like in our house (Samsung) which is on HD. Merry Xmas. John Leach Prescott. Also enjoyed your CD.
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86976
Quote
[I remain pretty annoyed that LD did include a TV with an ATSC receiver in it. After all we were only months away from it being illegal to sell]
Dave,
 I am still confused about this statement.  If ATSC receiver is not a good choice, what's the better option?  Is ATSC receiver going to be illegal to sell in a few months?  What's the legal replacement for it in the near future?  From your prior message, #86659, you stated:

Quote
In March-07 (might have been Feb) it became illegal to sell any new TV receivers that were not capable of receiving ATSC digital broadcasts (HD, SD or whatever).
Based on this statement, seems like that ATSC is going to stay after March 07.  Did I miss some point?

Sorry to be confused, this is the first time I am learning about these terms.  I am trying to figure out the options to include in a 08 MB, and there are so many unfamiliar, to me, aspects to consider.  The spec lists a 12V 19" HD LCD flat screen stereo TV & an amplified Winegard roof mounted crank-up TV antenna with booster and outside cable hook-up are standard.  Is there something wrong with this combination?  If so, what would work better besides an iPhone?
 Thank you for the information you have shared and TIA for any future advice.

Regards,

Elaine
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86985
On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:27 PM, Elaine wrote:

Quote
I am still confused about this statement.  If ATSC receiver is not a good choice, what's the better option?  Is ATSC receiver going to be illegal to sell in a few months?  What's the legal replacement for it in the near future?  From your prior message, #86659, you stated:

In March-07 (might have been Feb) it became illegal to sell any new TV receivers that were not capable of receiving ATSC digital broadcasts (HD, SD or whatever).
 Based on this statement, seems like that ATSC is going to stay after March 07.  Did I miss some point?
Yes, ATSC is the digital standard that is replacing the old standard NTSC (analog). ATSC is now the only choice.
 This past March, it became illegal for dealers to SELL any TV receiver that was not capable of receiving ATSC signals.  The current receivers generally now receive both, although after Feb-09, there will be no more NTSC (analog) signals transmitted, so I would expect NTSC receive capability to fall away fairly soon. Although it may take a while due to other devices that are NTSC only, such as camcorders, cable devices etc.

ATSC = Digital TV = HD = SD, etc NTSC = Analog = Old obsolete method

Quote
Sorry to be confused, this is the first time I am learning about these terms.  I am trying to figure out the options to include in a 08 MB, and there are so many unfamiliar, to me, aspects to consider.  The spec lists a 12V 19" HD LCD flat screen stereo TV & an amplified Winegard roof mounted crank-up TV antenna with booster and outside cable hook-up are standard.  Is there something wrong with this combination?
No, that TV is perfect. It is digital, ATSC  fully capable of HD.  My being annoyed with LD on the topic is, this change has been in the works for years, but they did not choose to switch to an ATSC receiver until Sharp discontinued the non-HD model they were using. I knew the TV in the vehicle I bought was going to be obsolete in a few months, thus I was annoyed.  ...and of course the swing arm bracket they used for the Sharp 15, cannot hold anything different.

-Dave '06MB, Indianapolis
 
Re: HDTV converter
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86994
Dave,

Thank you for the prompt explanation.  Now I understand it better.
Sorry about your TV situation, glad you were able to reslove the issue.

I am learning so much here.  This is a group of wonderful people.

Looking forward to be a Lazy Dazer.

Thanks,

Elaine