Solar system and electrical upgrade

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Solar system and electrical upgrade

November 05, 2007, 02:59:26 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85562

I want to add a solar system to the 96 23.5 FL I recently purchased.
My 96 has the older Magnetek 6300 and I'd like to replace the existing Trojan T105's with Lifeline AGM's and possibly add 2 more batteries sometime down the road.

I'm thinking of starting out with two 100 watt panels, charge controller and a large inverter/charger like the Xantrex Prosine.

My question is...

Who do I use to have this work done?
I'm not totally clueless and have some mechanical skills but not the kind needed to tackle this project.
Currently, I'm in Las Vegas, NV. and can travel a reasonable distance to have a quality job done.

My initial budget is somewhere around $3500.

thanks.

Jay

Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #1 – November 05, 2007, 03:24:08 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85564

Hi Jay I installed my own solar system and it is very doable. I recommend that DYI for most people. At least the panels and controller and wiring. I replaced my 6300 series with a 60 Amp 3-stage fully automatic converter, also a very easy install. I can't speak about the Prosine since I haven't done that install. What I did was to install a 800 watt pure sine wave inverter, and two Lifelines.

If you want to have the solar done out, I recommend AM Solar in Eugene (actually Springfield) Oregon, if you care to drive that far.
Maybe they can do the Prosine install as well. If you go the Prosine route you will be over your $3500 budget some, but there is no sales tax in Oregon.

Tom Johnston, Red 2000 TK, Whidbey Island WA, blue sky, sunshine and 55 degrees.

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #2 – November 05, 2007, 03:59:21 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85566

Thanks for the input Tom.

I could do some of the work myself to lessen the cost and am not opposed to that. I just don't want to muck it up and have to have a pro fix my mistakes.

I have been to AM Solar's site and have seem them recommended here but was hoping to find someone closer, maybe

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #3 – November 05, 2007, 05:01:44 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85569

Jay You are welcome. AM used to go to Quartzite. Just check at their website . I don't think you would muck up the solar install. The panels are attached with a 1 inch x 2 inch piece of double sided tape at each corner. I'm pretty sure almost anyone can handle that. If a person is not color blind they can connect the red and black wires that come with the panel to positive and negative terminals and run the wires down the refrigerator vent to the controller. Mounting the controller may be the most difficult thing depending on which model LD you have. It may take some cutting and drilling. Then just run red and black wires to the batteries from the controller.

By the way, you are going to have a really nice setup and really should consider adding a battery monitor such as the Zantrax while you are doing the install. If you do the install yourself you will same enough to pay for the monitor.

I bought both my converter and sine wave inverter from best converter dot com. The brand names of both are WFCO. You can peruse the best converter web site for information on these items, but I really recommend you call them and have a conversation about it. I have no connection to Best Converter, I just really liked working with them. And yes the new converter was a direct replacement of the 6345.

Jay, your needs may differ from mine. You may not need the inverter at all. It depends on your planned electrical power usage. I don't use mine a lot but it sure is convenient when I need it. I have house ac fed to the inverter and inverter ac output fed to a dedicated ac outlet. So for that particular outlet, when I plug something in there, it is powered by house ac when that is available and inverter ac from the batteries when not on shore power or generator. The transfer action is done automatically with a relay inside the inverter. There is also an external inverter switch mounted next to the dedicated outlet to turn the inverter on when it is needed so that when it is not in use, it draws no current.

As far as the converter upgrade, for me this is a must have.
While boondocking, sometimes you may not get much charging from your solar panels due to shade from trees or because it is not a very sunny day. Or maybe you just used more electricity than your solar panels can put back. Under these circumstances a couple hours on the generator will charge the batteries to at least 80%. On the OEM 6345 converter I would have to run the generator or be on shore power over 24 hours to get the same amount of charge. In fact, with my old converter I would just run my engine to get some charge.

I hope this is helpful.

Tom

.

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #4 – November 05, 2007, 05:17:40 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85573

"I want to add a solar system to the 96 23.5 FL I recently purchased... My question is... Who do I use to have this work done?"

No need to go to Oregon (unless of course you were looking for an excuse. ;-) Mike and Lisa Sylvester are AM Solar-certified techs currently in the Albuquerque, NM area. I've had extensive solar and electrical work done by Mike & Lisa, as have many others in this group, and they are topnotch.

You can contact them at 505-228-1389 or via their website:

http://www.thervguynm.com>

Any work that you don't feel comfortable doing yourself, you can be sure they will complete to the highest standards.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #5 – November 05, 2007, 05:18:37 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85574

Quote

I have been to AM Solar's site and have seem them recommended here but was hoping to find someone closer, maybe in Quartzite or AZ. somewhere. Don't they travel south in the winter and do installs?

They didn't travel to Quartzsite last winter. However, I contacted them and asked about a recommended installer in our area...they recommended Ron Walter and he did a great job installing our 4 100-watt solar panels, 4 AGM batteries, and 2000-watt Prosine inverter/charger (plus, of course, the HVP-22B solar charge controller). The last time I talked with Ron (early last month), he was in Moab doing an install, but he usually winters in Arizona. You might call him at 303-579-8677 and see if you can arrange to have him install your solar.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #6 – November 05, 2007, 05:31:24 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85579

Tom.

I'm sure I could do the panel install and get the wiring down the fridge vent. Where to put the controller, inverter and as you mention the XBM and then wire up everything is where I'd want someone with Lazy Daze experience to suggest the best location.
I have a 23.5 FL and don't know where the best location for the monitors, contoller or inverter would be.

I'll contact AM solar and see if they have a suggestion.
I probably will not be using that much power, I just got the rig and really the only thing I must have is an internet connection. I'll be getting a tripod mount dish setup for that. I'm usually online for 5 0r 6 hours daily but I know the modem doesn't use that much power.

I have a small 12v TV but don't plan on satellite TV, I watch very little and if I can get a local PBS station, Im fine or will watch a DVD.

Thanks for the info on the converter and inverter, I'll compare bestconverter.com to some others, but they look like they have what I need.

Did you get your solar panels and controller from AM? I might try buying their kit and give it a go.

Sounds like you did some fancy wiring to get your setup on the individual outlet, or is it easier than it sounds?
I think my first step is to replace the coverter with the updated one so I can get the AGM batteries and go from there.

Jay

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #7 – November 05, 2007, 05:54:04 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85584

"I probably will not be using that much power, I just got the rig and really the only thing I must have is an internet connection. I'll be getting a tripod mount dish setup for that. I'm usually online for 5 or 6 hours daily but I know the modem doesn't use that much power."
The DW7000 satellite modem draws 29 watts, or about 3 amps of DC once you run it through an inverter. (The modem requires AC.) You'll have to check your computer's power consumption and add that. A typical laptop draws 60-90 watts or 5-7 amps of DC; desktop computers use two to four times as much.
In short, you'll probably be using close to 10 amps of DC during the
5-6 hours a day when you're on the computer. Given that, plus what you
need to run lights, music system and so on, you're looking at fairly heavy power demands, so I'd say the more panels you put on, the better. Provide 100 amp-hours of battery capacity per 100W of solar capacity if you want a good balance between your ability to generate and store power.

Tom's right in saying that a converter upgrade is highly desirable, unless you want to run your generator much longer than necessary. And you will almost certainly need to run your generator occasionally.
Even with 500W of panels and 400 Ah of batteries on my rig, there are times when I need extra power in the evening or morning, and that's what the generator is there for. A good converter insures that as much power as possible will go to your batteries, minimizing generator runtime.
Finally, I strongly agree with Tom that given the kind of use you're planning, a computerized battery monitor is a MUST. Either a Link-10 or Xantrex Battery Monitor (XBM) will do the job. Without one of these, you'll be floundering, with no way to determine your batteries' actual state of charge (no, the voltage won't tell you!). I've been there. It's a huge waste of time. You absolutely need a Link-10 or XBM to manage a system like yours.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #8 – November 05, 2007, 06:13:17 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85586

Thanks Andy.
I think the best place for me to start is with the converter upgrade. bestconverter.com has a 55 amp kit and since it is a drop

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #9 – November 05, 2007, 06:38:38 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85587

Jay If your electrical (dc) needs are really as modest as you say, maybe all you need inverter wise is a small inexpensive non-built-in inverter. Save you some money.

As for the solar controller, I can't make any suggestions unless I look at a FL. In my TK I used a surface mount so I could put it as close as possible to the refrigerator vent. In other words I constructed a small box out of hardwood (oak) into which I mounted the controller. Then I mounted the box to a wall which I could not cut a hole into because the refrigerator is right behind it.

Yes I got a kit from AM Solar a couple years back at the RV rally in Redmond Oregon. Saved shipping and Washington state sales tax, and took them right home and installed them in a few hours.

As for installing some of the wiring. Was it easy or difficult? As far as figuring what to do and how to do it, that was easy.
As for as actually doing the work, it ranged from easy to fairly difficult. In my particular install (a TK), I pulled out a kitchen drawer and installed the inverter next to the furnace.
That wasn't bad. The ac wiring was more interesting since it was along the inside side way back behind the drawers. If you look back in there you can't get both your arms in there and if you put your arms in there you can't see what is going on.
Longer arms would have been helpful to me. Things that required two hands, such as getting screws started were a b----.
Tom

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #10 – November 05, 2007, 07:12:30 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85588

Jay

I have owned two FLs and have installed solar, extra batteries and inverters in both of them.
Running the solar leads down the refrigerator vent is not going to be the best option for you since there is not an easily accessible route to the battery.
You also have limited options on where to place the inverter/converter, especially if you plan on going with a big Prosine. From your description of your 120 VAC power needs, a smaller, MUCH cheaper inverter, combined with an upgraded converter would be a good choice.
You can also save a bit on money by sticking with the T-105 batteries.
There is room under the frame for extra batteries. I built an under-frame rack that holds 4 T-105s for our 2003 23.5' FL.
If your LD does not have a generator, the driver side storage compartment could be used for both batteries and/or a large inverter.
A smaller inverter will fit under the kitchen sink cabinet, next to the Factory converter.

Battery rack
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104740457/> Solar panels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104742393/> Link 10
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602095132826/> 800-watt inverter
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602095132516/>
DIY is fine if you have the electrical and construction skills but it must be done correctly to prevent future problems. Wiring must be properly sized, secured and fused.
This is not the place for beginners IMO.

E-mail me is you wish to discuss this some more. I have a lot of information that I can share with you.

Larry
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/>

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #11 – November 05, 2007, 09:57:54 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85595

Thank you Larry for reminding me where the awesome kayak lift system was. I had lost the link. Someday I'll have that too. Great job on all your mods!

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #12 – November 05, 2007, 10:17:51 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 85598

One other tip, Jay: if you're buying panels from AM Solar, be sure to get their tilt-mount kits. The added cost is negligible ($15 per panel last time I checked), and tilting the panels can get you a lot more power, especially during the colder months when the sun's low in the sky. It's an option well worth having.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

Reply #13 – November 06, 2007, 12:57:47 am

Yahoo Message Number: 85604

Quote

From: Tom Johnston
To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Solar system and electrical upgrade

"Jay You are welcome. AM used to go to Quartzite. Just check at their website < am solar dot com>. I don't think you would muck up the solar install. The panels are attached with a 1 inch x 2 inch piece of double sided tape at each corner. I'm pretty sure almost anyone can handle that. If a person is not color blind they can connect the red and black wires that come with the panel to positive and negative terminals and run the wires down the refrigerator vent to the controller. "

Panels should be mounted so there is adequate air space and ventilation to the back side of the panel. On many aluminum panel frames this means you should not mount them directly to a flat surface, but rather should use mounting brackets so the frame is an inch or so above the roof. The reason ventilation is important is that panel output voltage drops as PV panel temperature goes up.
Be sure to use adequate size wire. Within reason, the heavier the better as this means less wiring loss (voltage drop due to wiring resistance). I used 3 ga welding cable to get up to the roof, then brached out with 10 ga to connect to the panels. The 3 ga was overkill, but I felt good about it.

all the best,

bumper

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