Datastorm questions September 24, 2005, 07:53:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 58343I'm sure these questions have been asked before but my brain is a little fogged right now. Yesterday, my wife was wondering if VOI and TV were possible using Datastorm. I'm not sure if the uplink speeds are high enough for VOI. She needs to stay in frequent contact with her circle of friends and relatives. E-mail does not cut it for her, she need voice communications. Sure, our Venison cell phones work in most places but in many areas, particularly in the West, they do not work or the charges make it too expensive to spend much time talking during daylight hours.We are getting closer to semi-retirement so were starting to think more about these things.LarryNow I'm ready to sleep
TV and VOIP using Datastorm Reply #1 – September 24, 2005, 10:40:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 58345"Larry"wrote:Quote....wondering if VOI and TV were possible using Datastorm... TV reception using the Datastorm automatic antenna works fine after you mount a second receiver (called an LNB, or "low noise block amplifier") for the TV signals. This is accomplished through a BOW ("Bird on the Wire") kit, available from Motosat or its resellers. You will need to run a separate coax cable from the Datastorm into your RV to carry the TV signal. You can read more about TV reception on the Motosat web site or on the Datastorm Users Group forums. VOI (more commonly referred to as "voice over IP protocol," or VoIP) is possible. Some people love it, others can't deal with the problems. The sound quality is often poor compared to standard telephone service. The transmission via satellite adds a delay of 2-3 seconds, so the conversation is more like using a walkie-talkie than a telephone. The good news is that computer to computer calls are often free, and computer to telephone calls anywhere in the world cost only a few cents per minute. The Datastorm Users web site has more information. Look here for the "Networking/VPN/VoIP" forum. http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/index.html On this forum, here's a lengthy discussion of a service called "Crystal Voice," which seems to be preferred over the better-known VOIP providers, Vonage and Skype.Regardless of provider, I think VoIP is best suited for someone who likes to tinker with computers, and who has a high tolerance for dealing with problems.--oryoki
Re: Datastorm questions Reply #2 – September 24, 2005, 10:48:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 58346TV works fine.VOIP woks OK for some, even with the unavoidable limiatations satellite latency causes. There's a Forum on the subject at Datastormusers.com , here:http://www.datastormusers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/forum/f/6.html>best, paulQuoteI'm sure these questions have been asked before but my brain is a little fogged right now. Yesterday, my wife was wondering if VOI and TV were possible using Datastorm. I'm not sure if the uplink speeds are high enough for VOI. She needs to stay in frequent contact with her circle of friends and relatives. E-mail does not cut it for her, she need voice communications. Sure, our Venison ROFL....
TV and VOIP using Datastorm Reply #3 – September 24, 2005, 01:33:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58347I forgot to mention there's also a forum on TV here:http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/forum/f/10.html>best, paul
Re: Datastorm questions Reply #4 – September 24, 2005, 02:14:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58351"my wife was wondering if [Voice Over Internet] and TV were possible using Datastorm. I'm not sure if the uplink speeds are high enough for VOI." I played around with Skype a couple of months ago. Nice user interface, incoming sound was excellent--noticeably better than my Verizon cell phone--but outgoing sound, as reported by people I spoke with, was often interrupted or broken up. I expect that the Direcway satellite system's much slower uplink data rates were responsible. SkypeOut, their phone-patch service that lets you place calls to "regular" phone numbers worldwide for about ten cents a minute, was a complete washout: I could hear incoming sound just fine, but people I called either could not hear me at all, or heard only tiny fragments of speech. Too bad, because SkypeOut would be a very useful alternative to my cell phones with its limited minutes."Sure, our Venison cell phones work in most places..." Wow...I think that kind of phone would be a little too gamey for my taste! ;-)Andy Baird
TV and VOIP using Datastorm Reply #5 – September 24, 2005, 03:12:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58357"TV reception using the Datastorm automatic antenna works fine after you mount a second receiver (called an LNB, or "low noise block amplifier") for the TV signals. This is accomplished through a BOW ("Bird on the Wire") kit, available from Motosat " "Regardless of provider, I think VoIP is best suited for someone who likes to tinker with computers, and who has a high tolerance for dealing with problems. "oryokiThe LNB may be the solution I was looking for. Does this work on a manual antenna and can both the internet and TV be accessed at the same time or does the antenna need to be aimed at one satellite or the other. Having to deal with two antennas would not be very user friendly I guess I need to spend some time over at the Datastorm users group. I was hoping that VoIP would be perform better using a satellite, but now that I'm more awake, its obvious that a signal that has a 44,000 miles round trip would induce delay. The random delay of the internet adds to the problem. Guess we will be keeping our cell phones and picking our plans wisely. I keep reading about how VoIP is the wave of the future but from the reports from you, Andy and others, it seem show that its not very useful so why all the hype? Will this ever develop into a useful technology?Larry "TV reception using the Datastorm automatic antenna works fine after you mount a second receiver (called an LNB, or "low noise block amplifier") for the TV signals. This is accomplished through a BOW ("Bird on the Wire") kit, available from Motosat " "Regardless of provider, I think VoIP is best suited for someone who likes to tinker with computers, and who has a high tolerance for dealing with problems. "oryokiThe LNB may be the solution I was looking for. Does this work on a manual antenna and can both the internet and TV be accessed at the same time or does the antenna need to be aimed at one satellite or the other. Having to deal with two antennas would not be very user friendly I guess I need to spend some time over at the Datastorm users group. I was hoping that VoIP would be perform better using a satellite, but now that I'm more awake, its obvious that a signal that has a 44,000 miles round trip would induce delay. The random delay of the internet adds to the problem. Guess we will be keeping our cell phones and picking our plans wisely. I keep reading about how VoIP is the wave of the future but from the reports from you, Andy and others, it seem show that its not very useful so why all the hype? Will this ever develop into a useful technology?Larry
Re: Datastorm questions Reply #6 – September 24, 2005, 03:24:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58358""Sure, our Venison cell phones work in most places..."Wow...I think that kind of phone would be a little too gamey for my taste! ;-)"AndyThe antlers work great for reception in the forest.Larry I need to stop posting in the middle of the night when I'm half asleep
Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #7 – September 24, 2005, 04:38:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58360"I keep reading about how VoIP is the wave of the future but from the reports from you, Andy and others, it seem show that its not very useful so why all the hype? Will this ever develop into a useful technology?" The fact that I can log onto Skype and see 2,623,000 other users connected right now suggests that Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) is indeed useful to a lot of people. If you have a cable modem or good DSL connection, it's definitely worth a try. But we satellite internet users have two strikes against us: "latency," the delay because signals must travel almost 50,000 miles to and from the satellite; and "asymmetry," a much lower speed for outgoing data than for incoming data. Both of these pose problems for voice packets sent over the internet. For example, checking my bandwidth with the Speakeasy website ( www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/>) shows that right now I have a downlink (incoming data) speed of 428 kbps through my Direcway satellite dish--pretty respectable. However, my uplink speed is only 42 kbps--slower than a dialup modem connection! That undoubtedly accounts for the results I reported with Skype in my last message: incoming sound was great, but outgoing sound--not surprisingly, given only a tenth the bandwidth--was marginal. This isn't a problem with VOIP; it's just a lack of adequate bandwidth in the uplink direction. Faster and better satellite systems will eventually reduce or eliminate this problem. Latency is another story. In theory, the 50,00-mile round trip amounts to about a quarter of a second, which doesn't sound like much. In practice, though, the delay can range from half a second (which makes conversation slightly awkward until you get the hang of it) to one or two seconds (a severe impediment to normal speech). The only cure for latency is lower-flying satellites, so the signals don't have to travel so far. That can be done, and in fact has been tried...but after the Iridium system's spectacular financial failure, the idea of a constellation of sixty or more comsats in low earth orbit is hard to sell. Maybe someday... :-)Andy BairdCherry Creek State Park, Colorado
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #8 – September 24, 2005, 05:53:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58364Hmmm. I just checked mine here at home, and got 4,603 kbps on the download, and 454 kbps on the upload. I'm afraid yours would put me to sleep. :-)Dick
Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #9 – September 24, 2005, 11:35:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58368Speeds are much higher with the new LOWER cost services with the new DW7000 modem. In addition, Datastormusers.com recommends a standard speed test to have a standard basis for speed comparisons, see:http://www.datastormusers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/001097.html>best, paulQuoteFor example, checking my bandwidth with the Speakeasy website ( > www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/>) shows that right now I have a downlink (incoming data)Quotespeed of 428 kbps through my Direcway satellite dish--pretty respectable. However, my Quoteuplink speed is only 42 kbps--slower than a dialup modem connection! That undoubtedly Quoteaccounts for the results I reported with Skype in my last message: incoming sound was Quotegreat, but outgoing sound--not surprisingly, given only a tenth the bandwidth--was
Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #10 – September 25, 2005, 03:37:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58374"I just checked mine here at home, and got 4,603 kbps on the download, and 454 kbps on the upload. I'm afraid yours would put me to sleep. :-)" Dick, I used to have similar speeds with my Comcast cabel modem hookup. But when I added up the cost the weight of carrying a few thousand miles of coax with me in Gertie so I could stay hooked up that way, it just became prohibitive. ;-) If you need a broadband internet connection that's usable anywhere, even in the deep woods or high desert (unlike WiFi), satellite internet is as good as it gets right now. I'm grateful for the bandwidth I get--I could not stay in business without the satellite connection, and that would mean the end of my fulltiming.Andy BairdCherry Creek State Park, Colorado
Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #11 – September 25, 2005, 04:02:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58376"Speeds are much higher with the new LOWER cost services with the new DW7000 modem." Paul, I read that thread on the Datastorm Users forum, but to me the data appeared inconclusive. Reported results were all over the map, with way too many variables (differing service plans, receivers, BUC (transmitter) power, time of day, other loads on LANs, etc.) to draw any firm conclusions. The new receivers may indeed be better, but from what I can see, the evidence is not yet available to support that conclusion. As for lower cost, I'm paying $59 a month--haven't heard of anything cheaper than that from DirecWay.Andy Bairdsame ol' place as before
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #12 – September 25, 2005, 04:05:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58377I know. I just couldn't resist throwing that in. BTW, I have a friend who full-times and uses DirecWay as his internet hookup. He told me yesterday that DirecWay is making some kind of change at the end of the year which could greatly impact RV users. The way he explained it was that they would be going to spot beams which would make it very unusable unless you were camped near a large city. He had a name for the new service, but I can't remember it.Dick
Re: Internet data rates Reply #13 – September 25, 2005, 04:16:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58378"Datastormusers.com recommends a standard speed test to have a standard basis for speed comparisons..."http://testmy.net/> Tried it (using the recommended 2992KB download and 579KB upload, and got 655 kbps downlink and 99 kbps uplink the first time. Twenty minutes later, the same tests yielded sopeeds of 793 kbps and 112 kbps respectively. An immediate retest showed speeds of 697 kbps and 63 kbps. This kind of variability--especially in uplink speed--is consistent with what I've seen using other bandwidth tests such as bandwidthplace.com and speakeasy.net. Even when all other variables are controlled (which was not the case withe the results reported to the Datastorm Users forum), you have to take these results with a very large grain of salt. Personally, I put only slightly more faith in them than I do in biorhythm charts. ;-)Andy Bairdin some Denver suburb
Re: VOIP using Datastorm Reply #14 – September 25, 2005, 04:54:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58379I think some problems developed on the new satellite IA8 that is the only one currently offering higher speeds and lower costs with the new DW7*000 modems. Before the problems developed on IA8 folks were surprised and happy with the speeds.Actually, higher speeds for less has been anticipated for some time now with the advent of new satellites and new competition.Just now on my good ole' SatMex5 satellite with my DW6000 modems I FTPed a 5,631,979-sized ASCII log file up and down. UP time varied from 55 sec, 91 sec (601kbps) to 129sec. DOWN time varied from 89 sec to 91 sec (601 kbps). As in the above, it's not unusual for me to see UPLOAD FTP speeds to be FASTER than download. I realize this is not common, but it's not unheard of either. Upload speeds vary more than download speeds. My speeds may or may not be fairly compared with the method used at DatastormUsers.com It's hard for me to make much sense out of so-called speeds sometimes. But if my upload time is less than the download time for the same file, my guess is my upload speed is faster than my download speed As to lower cost, I was referring to lower Datastorm cost, not lower Direcway cost. Datastorm is now available for $79.99/month vs the previous $99/monthIn any event, I hope these new lower costs for Datastorm users mean Direcway users like you get lower costs, too. But I wouldn't bet on it.best, paulQuote"Speeds are much higher with the new LOWER cost services with the new DW7000 modem."Quote Paul, I read that thread on the Datastorm Users forum, but to me the data appeared Quoteinconclusive. Reported results were all over the map, with way too many variables (differing Quoteservice plans, receivers, BUC (transmitter) power, time of day, other loads on LANs, etc.) to Quotedraw any firm conclusions. The new receivers may indeed be better, but from what I can see, Quotethe evidence is not yet available to support that conclusion.As for lower cost, I'm paying $59 a month--haven't heard of anything cheaper than that from
Re: Datastorm questions Reply #15 – September 27, 2005, 02:55:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58449Andy, We use Skype regularly (every one to two days) to call to our relatives
Re: Datastorm and Skpye Reply #16 – September 27, 2005, 09:32:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58466"We use Skype regularly (every one to two days) to call to our relatives in the US from Europe using the SkypeOut contact to regular telelphones. While it's usually not true duplex mode, if you are careful not to 'step' on other speakers, it is great as far as we are concerned." Glad to hear that it works for you, Barry! I ought to give it another try...it's been a couple of months since last time, and maybe things have improved.Andy Baird
Datastorm questions Reply #17 – September 24, 2005, 05:16:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58362In a message dated 9/24/2005 4:53:14 AM US Mountain Standard Time, writes: my wife was wondering if VOI and TV were possible using Datastorm. I'm not sure if the uplink speeds are high enough for VOI. TV is possible with Datastorm (also with the tripod-mounted system) with "bird on a wire" -- essentially, just an added arm with an LNB. Not all the satellites, however, allow TV, so be sure to tell your installer that you're interested in adding TV to your setup so that they can assign you to the correct satellite. As far as VOIP, while it does work, there is a latency of about 4 seconds, maybe more. I looked into it when we were camp hosting earlier this year, but besides the latency issue, I've yet to figure out how a person with a real landline phone (or a cell phone for that matter) could call ME. From what I've been able to determine, pretty much the only people that would be able to call someone with a VOIP setup would have to have a VOIP setup of their own (and, of course, there's the issue of having to have your computer on in order to receive a call). If you don't care about other people being able to call you, and you can live with the latency, then it might be a good solution for when you're out of cell phone range. I'll probably do some more research into it myself when we get back to Quartzsite to see if I can find out more about it.Linda Hylton 2004 Red 23.5' TK Timer Valley SKP Park Sutherlin, OR See where we are: http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=1167[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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