Deet not Neet September 05, 2005, 09:50:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57752Oh! That's funny! Sorry about that. I never heard of Neet. I have a full head of hair. But, HECK! You guys are smart enough to know what I meant. Hey! They showed that on TV, about the bears being attracted by DEET. They put Deet on stuff and left it on trees and filmed it, and sure enough, in bear country, the bears were attracted to that bait every time. I'd say that if you care to disbelieve, that's your privilege. I, for one, would not go into the forest where we hike EVER, wearing Deet, knowing what I saw on TV, how it attracted those critters. That's truly a case of 'to each their own.' Forgive me for the incorrect spelling. I got a good laugh out of that. Thank you for the correction. May all bald people forgive me! Bye Frances
Deet not Neet Reply #1 – September 05, 2005, 10:02:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57753I just reread the dipilatory note....Naturally a hair remover.... I mistook it for a hair 'restorer'. Which goes to show I've no experience with Neet. It gets funnier. Time to drop the subject. Bye. Frances
Re: Deet not Neet Reply #2 – September 05, 2005, 10:53:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57755QuoteI'd say that if you care to disbelieve, that's your privilege. I neither believe nor disbelieve. But, I did do a brief net search. I didn't find any links to bears being attracted to mosquito repellent, but found lots of links to bears being attracted to Bear Repellent! The general point seemed to be that bear spray (aka pepper spray) is fine if you're confronted by a bear. But don't spray it around your campsite and if you want to practice, do so well away from your camp, picnic site, et cetera. Bears would rub up against a tree where it had been sprayed and roll on the ground where it had been spilled. And that's part of what I learned today, along with whether or not to use 85 octane, what items may or may not wear out at 60,000, and more so much more :-)I love this group! /noel/
Re: Deet not Neet Reply #3 – September 06, 2005, 09:03:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 57765QuoteI neither believe nor disbelieve. But, I did do a brief net search. I didn't find any links toQuotebears being attracted to mosquito repellent, A Google search onbears "mosquito repellant" brings up lots of links; here's the very first one, from the National Park Service in Sequoia NP: http://www.nps.gov/seki/snrm/wildlife/food_storage.htm"Proper food storage is not only essential to successful human-bear management, it is required legally (36 CFR 2.10(d)). Food includes food, trash, recyclables, toiletries, first aid kits, pet food, window cleaner, baby wipes, scented tissue, air freshener, soda cans, bottled beverages, canned food, coolers (full and empty), mosquito repellant, lipstick, tobacco products, and ANY RELATED ITEMS WITH A SCENT." Perhaps it's not the DEET ingredient itself, but the associated fragrance/ masking ingredients that the bears like; a moot point, just remember that it's on the list, along with other improbable items like window cleaner and canned food.
DEET and alternatives Reply #4 – September 06, 2005, 11:40:24 am Yahoo Message Number: 57775Here are my experiences with insect repellents. --oryokiDisease transmission by mosquito, tick and fly bites is no laughing matter. If you are travelling in an area where bugs are a problem, you should be routinely use some sort of insect repellent.DEET works better than most repellents, but it's pretty awful stuff. It does a great job of melting plastic (like lightweight progressive eyeglass lenses, steering wheels, and camera bodies), and can take the finish off furniture. DEET stings like crazy if you get it in a cut, and it hurts if you get it in your eyes (sweat from your forehead is the typical way this happens).If you're using a spray, check to see if people are standing nearby before you apply. A little breeze will easily carry the DEET onto your neighbor like a miniature Chernobyl meltdown.DEET is available in solutions up to 95% active ingredient (REI Jungle Juice, for example), but there's no increase in effectiveness above 50%. Using a lower % active ingredient works just as well, it just doesn't last as long. One solution is to use a DEET in a time-release form. Sawyer Controlled Release Deet Lotion (20% DEET) is one such product.DEET can be toxic to children if applied in high concentrations, and sunscreen tends to increase DEET's rate of absorbtion. So use a product with lower percent active ingredient with kids.DEET is most commonly applied as a lotion or a spray. My favorite is DEET in a stick form at 30% concentration. The stick looks like an oversize Chapstick. The advantage of a stick is that you can use it quickly and easily without making a mess, and without getting it on your hands. A stick makes it easy to touch up target areas like your ears, neck, forehead below your hat and backs of your hands. And a stick can't leak if its top gets loose.There are several alternatives to DEET. Most use some sort of plant oil as the active ingredient. Citronella, soy oil, geranium oil, and lemon eucalyptus oil are examples. These all work OK, but must be applied much more frequently than DEET. I've used Citronella mixed with my sunscreen, and it worked pretty well.A new product recomendation by the Centers for Disease Control is Picaridin. This chemical was developed by the Bayer phamaceutical company in Germany, and it has been used in European repellents for about 15 years. CDC confirms that Picaridin is just as effective as DEET, is pleasant to use, has no effect on plastics, and has few side effects. Yay! Being new, it's also more expensive. Boo! Picaridin is the active ingredient in Cutter Advanced insect repellent, among others.Remember that all these products act by confusing insects at the point where they are about to bite. So they "repel" insects only a few inches. If there are mosquitoes in the area, they will still be attracted to you by your body heat and the CO2 in your breath. They just won't land and bite (usually -- read on!).One really bad experience I had with mosquitoes was in Kantishna, Alsaka, inside Denali National Park. I was drenched in maximum strength DEET. Clouds of mosquitoes would approach, stopping about six inches in front of my face. They would hover there, confused, for a few seconds. Most would then leave, but some would dive in for the kill. I was covered in bites in an hour. That was a day when having a mosquito head net was a life-saver!Another new approach is to apply Permethrin to your clothing. Rather than acting as a repellent, Permethrin is an insecticide. Bugs like mosquitoes, flies and ticks will either get off, or die. I like to use Permethrin on my socks and trousers to discourage ticks.Permethrin is applied by spray to clothing, then allowed to dry. Never spray Permethrin onto clothing that someone is wearing! An application lasts for five trips through the washer and dryer.
Re: Deet not Neet Reply #5 – September 06, 2005, 11:43:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 57776Quote from: cyberskier_98\[/quote\\>] "Perhaps it's not the DEET ingredient itself, but the associated fragrance/ masking ingredients that the bears like; a moot point,..."FolksNo, it most certainly is not a "moot point". It's a documented fact that most attacks on human females by the American Black Bear can be attributed to the cosmetics that person was wearing. And as an aside to that, many attacks are precipitated by the fact that the female was in her menstrual period. Not a joking matter.Steve S. Lazy Bones
Re: Deet not Neet Reply #6 – September 06, 2005, 03:09:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57785Yikes, Steve, I certainly did not intend to make light of a very real risk, which was why I felt it was worthwhile to quote the entire list of items that the NPS lumped into the dangerous "food" category. The "moot point" I was trying to point out was that it doesn't matter which ingredient
Re: DEET and alternatives Reply #7 – September 06, 2005, 08:14:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57802"Another new approach is to apply Permethrin to your clothing. Rather than acting as a repellent, Permethrin is an insecticide. Bugs like mosquitoes, flies and ticks will either get off, or die. I like to use Permethrin on my socks and trousers to discourage ticks."oryokiMy wife and I bought "Buzz-off" shirts, socks and convertible pants for a winter trip the jungles of Costa Rica. It seemed to work but the real test came this summer in the Eastern Sierras where the mosquitoes were extra thick, due to the abundant runoff. We walked in flooded meadows with millions of the little pest swarming around us. The stuff works. You still need to protect your hands and face but the rest of our bodies came through without a bite (and my wife is a mosquitoes magnet). A little Deet on the backside of the hands and a head-net, over a baseball cap, gives complete protection. A Google search produced "Buzz-off' gloves, sold by Orvis, so you can completely abandon the use of Deet. I can't wait to try it out in Canada and Alaska. The downside is the treated material last only through 20 washings, before becoming ineffective, so wear and wash it only when necessary.Larry
Re: DEET and alternatives Reply #8 – September 07, 2005, 03:32:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57828"Had good luck with Avon's Skin So Soft repelling mosquitoes on the north slope near the Bering Sea in Alaska." For what it's worth, Consumers Union tested this along with conventional repellents a couple of years ago. Although Skin So Soft did have some repellent value, it was the least effective of all products tested. Even the worst of the DEET-based products was better. Best of all was 3M Permathon, a 30% DEET formulation that is micro-encapsulated (or some such clever 3M technology) so that it lasts longer than anything else tested. CU found Permathon to be more effective and longer-lasting than even 100% DEET products...and it doesn't have the smelly, oily character of the high-DEET repellents. Instead, it's a lotion that doesn't leave you feeling greasy. Recent tests have turned up another very effective repellent whose name I've forgotten at the moment, but I'm sure a search in this group's archives would locate it quickly. Permathon is hard to find in stores, so this newer formula might be a more practical solution. But I've been very happy with Permathon (which I ordered online) for the past few years.Andy Baird
Re: DEET and alternatives Reply #9 – September 07, 2005, 10:07:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57841Andy,A Google search, as well as a search of the 3M database, failed to turn up anything called Permathon. However, on the 3M site, I did see that they make samething called "Ultrathon," and it sounds good. Check out this link: http://www.3m.com/us/home_leisure/scianglers/ultrathon_lotion.jhtml- David
Re: DEET and alternatives Reply #10 – September 09, 2005, 12:38:24 am Yahoo Message Number: 57875"A Google search, as well as a search of the 3M database, failed to turn up anything called Permathon. However, on the 3M site, I did see that they make samething called 'Ultrathon,' and it sounds good." Oh, fudge! I keep making that mistake for some reason. Thanks for catching it! Yss, it's Ultrathon. Sorry!Andy Baird
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