Fun with solar continued December 29, 2024, 01:58:10 pm I recently recharged my house batteries.With the house batteries switch in the off position the controller reads 15.4 and the generator will crank but not start.With the switch in the on position the controller does not show any lights and the screen is blank. The generator will not crank.See photos of how my batteries are connected.Any thoughts?Thanks
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #1 – December 29, 2024, 02:17:30 pm The battery switch in your picture appears to be OFF. If so, and it's connected correctly, the batteries won't be connected to each other or anything else. Rich
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #2 – December 29, 2024, 02:26:29 pm With the switch in the off position the controller display is on and the generator will crank but not start. When I turn the switch to the on position the controller light are off and the generator will not crank.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #3 – December 29, 2024, 02:29:11 pm Do you have a way to test the voltage of each individual battery (a multimeter)?
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #4 – December 29, 2024, 02:41:35 pm I charged the batteries yesterday. They were 95% charged.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #5 – December 29, 2024, 02:56:44 pm This is how the batteries are connected. Battery 1 charge: 6.2Battery 2 charge: 5.8
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #6 – December 29, 2024, 03:02:27 pm Is that battery (Super Start) a deep cycle battery? 1 Likes
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #7 – December 29, 2024, 03:04:04 pm Yes. for over 3 years these batteries have worked good.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #8 – December 29, 2024, 03:28:49 pm I can't do a detailed troubleshooting b/c I'm not there, but here is one thing that could be happening. In other words, this is a guess based on incomplete information.Your batteries seem bad. I think the voltages you just measured are with the solar connected and active. The 5.8 battery almost certainly has a problem. The 6.2 could also be weak if it's being boosted by the solar. I think when the battery switch was off, any result you saw from the electrical system (generator crank, lights) was from the solar. When the battery switch was on, any power generated by the solar was being sent straight to the batteries and it wasn't enough to have any left for electrical activities. The 95% charge indicated by your charger isn't reliable b/c lead acid batteries generate a misleading surface charge when they are charged. To determine the real state of the batteries, you have to let them sit with no charging or discharging for multiple hours and then test the voltage.If I was in your shoes, I would remove the 2 6v batteries and take them to an auto parts store that can do a load test with a more sophisticated machine. They should be able to print a report showing the real battery health and it's typically free. I _think_ the tester at auto parts stores will do 6v batteries, but it's probably worth it the call and ask. This test will take some time (as much as an hour) for each battery. If they do a quick 2 min test, they didn't do the correct test. Rich 1 Likes
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #9 – December 29, 2024, 03:52:20 pm I called several auto parts stores in my area. One store said they couldn't test RV batteries.The other stores said they could do a basic test.I may need to wait until Monday and call my local Goodyear.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #10 – December 29, 2024, 03:55:56 pm A place that sells golf cart batteries (6V) should be able to help. 1 Likes
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #11 – December 29, 2024, 04:00:33 pm I can start my generator on 30 amp? I just need to start it before colder weather.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #12 – December 29, 2024, 04:08:14 pm Probably, if the batteries (even dead ones) are installed to complete the circuit. You can also just drain the fuel from the carb bowl. It's not as good as running the generator for exercise (IMO) but it should prevent carb issues.https://www.irv2.com/forums/f84/solution-the-onan-gen-technician-showed-me-435526.htmlRich
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #13 – December 29, 2024, 04:38:57 pm I'll add a couple of comments to what others have said.First, I agree that the widely differing voltages indicate one or more bad batteries. That's regardless of whether they're getting solar power, engine power, or otherwise. Those batteries should never be at widely differing levels. And even if only one is bad, good practice is to replace both. I'll go so far as to say that you needn't bother testing those batteries. The voltages tell you that they're shot.Second, "Super Start" does not sound like a deep cycle battery! It sounds like what the name implies: a starting battery. You might get a couple of years out of starting batteries, but in deep-cycling RV use they're going to be damaged sooner rather than later. That might well be why you're seeing failures now, after only a couple of years. As Rich suggested, you need golf cart batteries.Third, when you change to new batteries, be sure to give all the terminal lugs a good scrubbing with Scotchbrite, sandpaper or other abrasive. Some of them look pretty corroded.Finally, if you understand series-connected batteries, you could retry jumpering from a 12V car or truck (with the engine running), in order to get your generator running. You'd need to be very certain that you were connecting the cables to the negative-most and positive-most battery posts--one on each battery. If you're not sure how this works, don't attempt it. An exploding flooded-cell battery is dangerous!
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #14 – December 29, 2024, 05:01:13 pm Super Start GC110DT: Group Size (BCI): GC2; Voltage (V): 6 Volt; Length (in): 10-1/4 Inch; Width (in): 7-1/8 Inch; Height (in): 10-7/8 Inch;Whether you need a battery for a personnel carrier, aerial lift, electric vehicle, golf car, boat, RV, floor scrubber, road sign or any other application that requires deep-cycle power, this is the battery of choice.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #15 – December 29, 2024, 05:03:29 pm Thanks Andy.A member told me I could replace my acid batteries with 1 12 volt Lithium battery
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #16 – December 29, 2024, 06:13:56 pm NADAZE (I think your first name is Mark?),I have read this series of posts and your previous subject where you were asking for help with troubleshooting your solar. That previous message seemed to drift from the actual question you were asking about to why you should buy lithium batteries...sigh.IF I understand what you originally wanted to do, all you were trying to do was get your generator started so your stabilized fuel would be in the generator fuel system. I think you mentioned possibly selling your rig next year and you did not want to invest a lot of money in new batteries. Am I correct so far?If I am correct, I think there are two fairly simple ways to accomplish your goal.1st option:. If you have your batteries installed correctly, I would start the Lazy Daze engine and let it run for a few minutes. I would check your solar display to see if is reading around 14 volts. Or you could use a multimeter to read the voltage at the batteries, negative lead on the negative terminal and the positive lead touching the positive terminal on the other battery. Again, if your batteries are connected properly and the truck engine is running, I would expect the volts to be around 14 volts.because of the truck engine trying to charge your house batteries. With the truck engine running, I would expect the generator to crank and it should start. Let it run around 15-30 minutes and then shut everything off. Your fuel system should now have stabilized fuel through it.2nd option: get a known good 12 volt battery, either from another vehicle or power equipment like a tractor or buy a cheap 12 volt battery. Install whatever 12 volt battery you end up with and wire it without your battery disconnect switch. Most any charged 12 volt battery should start your generator to accomplish your goal of stabilizing the fuel system.After you accomplish stabilizing your fuel system, if you live where temperatures go below freezing, REMOVE your house batteries. The reason I would do that is that a discharged or partially discharged battery can freeze; the battery case could crack and leak battery acid in the compartment. This should buy you time to decide about your future battery needs or plans.Good luck,Steve K (still using Trojan lead acid batteries) 1 Likes
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #17 – December 29, 2024, 06:46:33 pm Thanks Steve! have read this series of posts and your previous subject where you were asking for help with troubleshooting your solar. That previous message seemed to drift from the actual question you were asking about to why you should buy lithium batteries...sigh.*The reason I mentioned lithium batteries. A member stated I I didn't want to purchase to 6 volt acid batteries I could purchase one 12v lithium. One lithium battery is cheaper than two deep cycle 6 volt batteries.IF I understand what you originally wanted to do, all you were trying to do was get your generator started so your stabilized fuel would be in the generator fuel system. I think you mentioned possibly selling your rig next year and you did not want to invest a lot of money in new batteries. Am I correct so far?* That's correctIf I am correct, I think there are two fairly simple ways to accomplish your goal.1st option:. If you have your batteries installed correctly, I would start the Lazy Daze engine and let it run for a few minutes. I would check your solar display to see if is reading around 14 volts. Or you could use a multimeter to read the voltage at the batteries, negative lead on the negative terminal and the positive lead touching the positive terminal on the other battery. Again, if your batteries are connected properly and the truck engine is running, I would expect the volts to be around 14 volts.because of the truck engine trying to charge your house batteries. With the truck engine running, I would expect the generator to crank and it should start. Let it run around 15-30 minutes and then shut everything off. Your fuel system should now have stabilized fuel through it.* With the engine running and the battery switch turned to the off position, My controller display read 15.22nd option: get a known good 12 volt battery, either from another vehicle or power equipment like a tractor or buy a cheap 12 volt battery. Install whatever 12 volt battery you end up with and wire it without your battery disconnect switch. Most any charged 12 volt battery should start your generator to accomplish your goal of stabilizing the fuel system.* If I purchased a 12 volt battery, would the solar wires need to be connected to the batteries? If not, which wires in the battery compartment feeds power to the generator.After you accomplish stabilizing your fuel system, if you live where temperatures go below freezing, REMOVE your house batteries. The reason I would do that is that a discharged or partially discharged battery can freeze; the battery case could crack and leak battery acid in the compartment. This should buy you time to decide about your future battery needs or plans.Thanks! 2 Likes
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #18 – December 29, 2024, 07:04:28 pm Mark, I really don't think you need to be concerned about the solar system to just get the generator started and fuel stabilized. If you are concerned about your solar system, you could pull the fuse marked "solar" that is located in the charger/converter compartment.But I do think one of the positive wires connects to a solar fuse in the battery compartment. Just get the generator started and stabilized and remove whatever battery you have in the compartment.I do leave my Trojans in my rig all winter but use the factory disconnect to turn the batteries off. Even though I have my fuel system filled with stabilized fuel for the winter, I do try to run my generator for around a half hour every few weeks IF we have moderate temperatures. I live in Ohio where we can have months of freezing temperatures, sometimes below zero. I have a cover on my rig and totally disregard my solar system during winter. Good luck!Steve K
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #19 – December 29, 2024, 07:12:40 pm Thanks for posting the battery specs, NADAZE!. So despite the "Super Start" name, what you have are deep-cycle 6 volt 225 amp-hour batteries. "One lithium battery is cheaper than two deep cycle 6 volt batteries."No, it isn't. Not for the same performance.If you want the same amount of storage you have now (or would have, if you had the factory-installed 225 amp-hour deep cycle batteries), you'll need either two 100 amp-hour lithium batteries or a single 200 amp-hour lithium battery. Neither will be cheaper than a pair of new 6 volt 225 amp hour batteries.Lithium is better (in most ways), but it's not cheaper. If you choose carefully, it can be comparable in price.
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #20 – December 29, 2024, 07:14:37 pm Quote from: NADAZE! - December 29, 2024, 02:56:44 pmI charged the batteries yesterday. They were 95% charged.Battery 1 charge: 6.2Battery 2 charge: 5.8I assume the two 6-volt batteries were charged as much as they would take and that the voltages are what you indicate. Battery 2 has a dead cell and probably will never crank and start the generator.Remove the rig's starting battery and temporarily install it in the coach battery box as a stopgap measure. Use it to start the generator as needed before replacing the starting battery in its proper place. Replace the batteries next spring.Just about any lithium battery is available in a 12-volt version. Most replace the two 6-volt 220 amp/hour lead-acid or AGMs with two 12-volt 100-amp/hour lithiums. If a single larger capacity 12-volt battery fits the compartment, it can be used too, such as SOKs 206-amp/hour lithium. The key work is "if it fits". Remember there are existing circuit breakers and cables to deal with so allow room for them and maneuvering room for getting the new battery and its cable in place. The cable may need modification and an additional cable may be needed..Larry
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #21 – December 30, 2024, 02:38:45 pm Good afternoon.Did I connect my batteries wrong?
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #22 – December 30, 2024, 02:42:45 pm Yes Mark. The battery on the right in your picture should have the same plus and minus mark as the one on the left. All of those red wires (some blue insulation) should be connected to the Plus terminal at the back/right of the battery box. The plus output of the battery on the left goes to the shutoff switch and through that to the Negative (Minus) connector on the right battery, which should be closest to the open battery door and match the negative mark on the leftmost battery. RonB
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #23 – December 30, 2024, 02:44:37 pm Quote from: NADAZE! - December 30, 2024, 02:38:45 pmGood afternoon.Did I connect my batteries wrong?I think you did. The battery with all the red cables attached: those red cables should be attached to the + terminal. Good on you for asking.Rich
Re: Fun with solar continued Reply #24 – December 30, 2024, 02:49:54 pm Quote from: RonB - December 30, 2024, 02:42:45 pm I've never had a battery disconnect switch. I have heard of people having an internal problem with that switch in there, that was difficult to troubleshoot. RonBThe factory battery disconnect is an unsealed cheap switch, acidic battery fumes can destroy the switch contacts, leading to poor connections and all sorts of electrical issues. I have replaced several of these switches through the years, usually replacing them with sealed marine battery switches.Larry 1 Likes
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