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Topic: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker (Read 684 times) previous topic - next topic
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12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Does the 2000 LD have a automatic or manual reset circuit breaker located on the back wall of the battery compartment?

New 6v batteries will be installed on Monday. I know those connections do not look good.
The coach batteries are 5 years old and water level was not checked this year.

Very hot Walnut valley bluegrass festival this year. After 8 days of 95 degrees, we lost 110 volt AC power. 
None of our neighbor had reported problems but work was being done on the electrical lines in other parts of the camping area. Over 5 thousand campers this year and a micro burst storm occurred the day before.
I use a pedestal shore power progressive industry surge protector. No solar or on board surge protector.
Have experienced this twice before in the past couple of years, on very hot days.
At the festival was not able to run generator. Generator was ran at storage facility and Air conditioner fan and outlets worked.

After 45 minutes of trouble shooting, breakers, fuses, hidden manual reset I unplugged everything and cooled down. Setting the surge protector and cords in the shade. At the shore power pedestal, a different working 30 amp was available and no dice, no power coming in. I typically look for the microwave clock and the voltage meter I have plugged into one of the outlets.
Only the Air conditioner fan on low was running with a CD player and phone charger plugged into the outlets when this occurred. No codes came up on the Progressive EMS, however, I was outside visiting for about half an hour before I realized that I had lost 110 volt AC. I did have 12 volt with fans, water pump and interior lights operational. Limited use of course.

I am assuming from what limited knowledge I have that the converter is okay being when I ran the generator the next day at home, the Air conditioner worked and was able to eject the cd from the player.

I have it scheduled time at a new to me rv repair shop to replace my batteries and inspect my 30 amp shore power plug. I noted a  small black line was seen on one of the "crows feet".

All breakers seemed fine and fuses. I also assumed because when the generator was running  and everything worked that it excluded the converter, fuses and breakers. Maybe I am wrong. Allot of information here... Everything is fixable, just need to find what needs fixing. Kimberley
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #1 –
Hi Kimberly;  Your 110VAC outlets are mostly protected by a GFCI circuit breaker (white test button) in your power distribution box, panel where the circuit breaker are. The Air conditioner has it's own breaker (not GFCI), and the microwave it's own breaker (not GFCI). Also the Converter which charges your batteries from pedestal or generator, and provides 12vdc to the house, has it's own breaker (not GFCI).  It is not very obvious if the GFCI has tripped.
     Because the handle sits halfway between off and on, the circuit breaker isn't obviously tripped.  If you hit the test button and nothing happens, it was probably off. If it wasn't off, it is now! You need to turn it all the way off to reset it, then all the way back on to have it come back on. The outlet that runs the refrigerator, almost outdoors, inside the external access door, has a duplex outlet. Water can enter there, especially in wind whipped rainfall. I tape off the opening when I'm not using it. That and the refrigerator plug can accumulate dirt and moisture and cause the GFCI to operate. Also some floorplans have a separate outdoor AC outlet that can cause the same problem if just a little water gets into it. (I've seen many with missing covers, no seals, etc.)
  When plugged in, the roof AirCon will work regardless of the GFCI, and CD's will eject (was that the dash radio?) because that runs on 12vdc from the house batteries (or the chassis battery sometimes).   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #2 –

Hi Kimberly; I was reviewing my answer and noticed that I didn't answer your first question.Yes you have a manual reset ciucuit breaker on the back wall of the battery box. The picture of that 100Amp circuit breaker is not tripped. A flag (piece of plastic) pops out to the left if tripped. I can see that it is OK. It protects the wire that comes from the engine alternator, that charges the house batteries while you are driving. Mostly to prevent a fire, it is unlikely to ever operate. Car accidents involving serious damage to the engine, cab or area behind the driver, are about the only time it would be involved. Possibly hydraulic levelers with the engine running could draw more than 100A. while being operated.
   The 30A surge protector could have cut off your power if the voltage fell too low. That would happen if everybody was trying to run their air conditioners. When the voltage came back up, the PI would have turned the power back on. Also it could have overheated itself and shut down until it cooled off. In other words you have nothing to fix.
  You can replace just the plug end on your attached power cord. Don't fall for that $200 replace the entire cord rip-off. A new Camco plug with handle is $27 and very easy to do. The handle makes it easier to unplug. But you may not have anything wrong with your plug. Loose or distorted brass blades, partially melted plastic or blades is what you are looking for. The plugs sit outside a lot and get dirty. Not a reason to replace them yet, although arcing inside the molded plug might cause an intermittent loss of power. Have it inspected.  Camco Power Grip 30 Amp Male Replacement Power Plug Head w/ Handle  $18.   Amazon also has it. Amazon.com: Camco Power Grip Camper/RV Mini Replacement Plug - Attach 30 Amp...    RonB

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #3 –
Ron, thank you for responding.

I did compress the GFCI (white button) on the electrical panel when testing the breakers.
It was not obvious when I pressed it, meaning it seamed to return to the same position.
The hidden reset button under the refrigerator and behind the drawer has been my go to regarding the loss of power to the outlets.

When we lost power I was studying the electric schematics in the index portion of the manual. That is when I noted the 12vac manual reset. Cell phone service was terrible and was not able to go online to look up trouble shooting on the owners group.

I am curious though, if you loose shore power and run the generator, and everything works (air conditioner, outlets, water pump extra), does that mean the converter, fuses and breakers are functioning normally?

That is what I have done in the past, unplug, let everything cool down. Run the generator and wait out the brown out.

Thanks, Kimberley
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #4 –
Hi Kimberly;  The white test button on the GFCI is just a simulated short on the breaker, as if a person were touching a hot wire, to test the functionality of the sensor circuit.  The actual circuit breaker is the handle above it, marked '15' denoting that it is a 15 Amp capacity before it trips with a 16A or more load (like a normal non GFCI breaker would)
Replacement Converter Blowing the Circuit   If the handle is all the way up, (on) and you push the white test button, that handle should click and rest half way down, between off and on. To do that test you need to have 110VAC applied to the coach. Either pedestal shore power or generator. If the breaker handle doesn't move when you push the test button, it is either defective, or already tripped. It should shut off all of the OUTLETS that it controls. The roof air conditioner, microwave, and converter are unaffected. 12vdc circuits remain and are not affected by the 110VAC circuits. (If the converter is unpowered the batteries are on their own until they run down).
   "The hidden reset button under the refrigerator and behind the drawer has been my go to regarding the loss of power to the outlets."  Well that 12 volt reset is only for 12v. power coming from, or going to, the batteries from the converter, and has nothing to do with 110VAC or the AC outlets. It is unlikely that it would ever need to be reset, which is why Lazy Daze put it in such a difficult to locate position.
    " if you lose shore power and run the generator, and everything works (air conditioner, outlets, water pump extra), does that mean the converter, fuses and breakers are functioning normally?"  I'm not sure what water pump 'extra' means?  Do you have two water pumps?)     Not necessarily.   The items that you are using are working for you. There could be items not working that you aren't aware of.  But generally speaking 'yes' that's a good sign.
     To me it sounds like your Progressive Industries (PI) has shut off your AC power, likely protecting you from too high or too low a voltage, or too much current, 30A. That is what it is supposed to do.  It may have a faster response than the 30A circuit breaker in the pedestal. You would have to reset that circuit breaker manually, but the PI unit would monitor the power and if it returned to within the 'protected' limits, would turn your power back on after it remained 'good' for a specified time. It also checks for 60hz. frequency, but shoreline power should be very stable.  (generators not so, but your external PI isn't connected to your generator).
     Next time you have a pedestal power loss, check the indicator lights on your PI for information on what it thinks it is protecting you from.
     Poor battery performance isn't likely to have anything to do with the power problems you are experiencing. Sitting in a 'no power' campsite and the lights get dimmer, that is a problem with batteries charge and capacity.  Try checking the water levels in your batteries. Add Distilled water if needed. (Not purified drinking water, where they put so called 'essential' minerals back in). Fill to the proper level just above the plates, and allow the converter to change the water added, back into sulphuric acid.  Trojans are an excellent brand and they may recover. A four stage charger, or an upgraded converter for your 2002, (obsolete Magnetek 6345) would be good. I hope this helped.       RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #5 –
"I did compress the GFCI (white button) on the electrical panel when testing the breakers. It was not obvious when I pressed it, meaning it seamed to return to the same position."

Try pressing the Test button and then the reset button. As with ordinary circuit breakers, sometimes that's what it takes to really reset the breaker.

"The hidden reset button under the refrigerator and behind the drawer has been my go to regarding the loss of power to the outlets."

Bear in mind that that circuit breaker only affects 12 VDC circuits, not 120 VAC circuits and outlets.

"if you loose shore power and run the generator, and everything works (air conditioner, outlets, water pump extra), does that mean the converter, fuses and breakers are functioning normally?"

Not necessarily. For example, suppose you run the generator and the (12 VDC) water pump still works. That doesn't prove your converter is working, because the water pump is powered by your house batteries. Eventually they'd run down, of course... unless you drive, in which case they're recharged by the engine's alternator. I'm not saying your converter is bad, just that you have to be careful when thinking about what affects what.

From what you said in your original post, it seems as if power is getting to your EMS, but not to your motorhome. The fact that it fails after running the air conditioner for a while, but then works again after a cooling-off period, makes me think that the power cord could be at fault due to overheating. I agree with Ron's suggestion of inspecting both ends, but especially the plug, for any signs of melting. If there's any doubt, replace the plug, as Ron suggested. It's easy to do; all you need is a Philips screwdriver.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #6 –
My first thought from reading that everything like the AC seemed to work again with the generator running was maybe the ATS (automatic transfer switch) has failed and is stuck in the "generator" mode?
1995 26.5 Island Bed
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #7 –
Hi MarkT;  If that were the case, the AirCon and all other AC outlets would only work with the generator on. They do work at times from the shore power pedestal.     While it could be the plug end of the power cord, it is more likely the PI  surge protector/power management system, between the plug of the power cord and the pedestal outlet.
    The non plug end of the power cord is hard wired into an electrical box inside the power cord storage compartment. The plug end of the shorepower cord is exposed to dirt, weather and other wear and tear. (In 2002 LD switched to the Marinco plug/socket scheme.)
   Kim has a meter plugged in to an interior AC outlet, so I'd like to see what that meter says about the power voltage just before the power goes out.  With a suitable adaptor (dogbone) she could plug that meter into the pedestal socket, or just plug into the pedestal directly with the shorepower plug and bypass the PI temporarily as a method of troubleshooting this problem.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #8 –
Thanks Ron,

I read something about "it happened before", but I didn't see anything about everything working on shore power again since then and that it was an intermittent problem now?  Seemed like shore power is just dead now?  (And yes, cord and external surge protector are definitely the first things to check)

I just saw a lot of questions on the breakers and convertor and no mention of the ATS. 

Thank you!
1995 26.5 Island Bed
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #9 –
The 30 amp shore power plug was inspected today and the neutral wire was burnt and if I understand them correctly, coming in contact with the hot wire. They said they were going to have to cut a few inches into the 30 amp shore power cord. I will have a picture of the damaged plug on Wednesday when I pick it up.

My procedure at the shore power pedestal is turn off the breaker before plugging in the Progressive surge protector.
The 30 amp plug was not original to the unit that is now being replaced.
 It was replace after inspection prior to my purchasing the Lazy Daze rv.

The only thing I can think of is we were using a 25 foot 30 amp extension to reach the power pedestal.
That extension cord came with the rv and have only used it a few times.
Those cords are kept in the shade and as straight as possible leading to the shore power pedestal. The plugs are off the ground with a leveling block under it to keep it dry.
When I unplugged everything, I noted the extension cord feeling warmer near the plug in addition to the very small mark, less than an 8th of an inch on the anterior side of one of the crows feet of the 30 amp shore power plug.

The two other times in the last 4 years that I have lost 30 amp shore power has happened on very hot camping days, I was not using the 25 foot 30 amp extension. Both of those times I was able  to turn on the generator and back to shore power from generator power after the sun went down and the progressive surge protector decided it would be okay.

Because I was at an acoustic music festival, generators were not allowed. So we packed up early and went home the next day. After several day of intense heat and no power for about 24 hours, we were ready.

My suspicion is a damaged 30 amp 25 foot extension combined with a poorly installed or damaged neutral terminal in the shore power plug made it inoperable. Having used a progressive shore power surge protector since I purchased the rv in 2020, that is all I can come up with.
I have a new in box extension if needed in the future. Setting that 25 foot extension aside.
Have a camping trip in a couple weeks, will be able to know more when we are plugged into shore power. Will have voltage meter and some patients and hopefully additional knowledge to chase down what needs fixing.

Thank you, I have allot of homework to do to further understand my electrical system, Kimberley

Additional note: The rv repair shop did not have the correct batteries for replacement or the 30 amp plug, they suggested one 12v and loose the battery disconnect and I said no. Just change the plug.
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #10 –
Hi Kimberly;  The wire cable feeling hot near the plug was absolutely a warning sign. The person replacing your plug end is correct to trace back inside the cord. Losing a few inches still leaves you with a long cord. My '99T/K has about 26 feet left.  The Marinco cords are about 20'.  You should have this person, that worked on your cord, inspect your extension cord ends also. Better than a new cord out of the box, a properly replaced plug and socket ends can be inspected for proper condition by removing the shells. When you buy a new cord, you can't see inside the molded ends. And lately you have a chance to get copper clad aluminum conductors, which in my book are outlawed as a fire waiting to happen.  RonB

edit; For the low price of this one relative to other cords for sale, I'd feel better if it stated "solid copper stranded wires". The ad copy seemed to avoid this statement. Lighted RV Extension Cords | Bad Ass Extension Cords   I'll send them an e-mail asking about the conductors.  RB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #11 –
That is a great idea. Ron, thanks again, Kimberley
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #12 –
Replacing my coach batteries : Interstate Deep Cycle Battery ( part number: GC2-ECL-UT) Flooded Lead Acid 6V . My coach does not have solar.
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #13 –
"The rv repair shop did not have the correct batteries... they suggested one 12v and loose the battery disconnect and I said no."

Good for you. I would have laughed in their faces. That's a ridiculous suggestion.

"My coach does not have solar."

I don't know what your budget looks like, but you could fit at least 400 watts of panels on that midbath's roof. Even 200 watts on the roof would go a long way toward reducing your need for shore power. Heck, a portable 200 W "solar suitcase" would be better than nothing, and would cost little more than a dollar a watt. Solar power is a lot less expensive than it used to be. Just a thought... :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #15 –
Thanks. This is being discussed here.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
 
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #16 –
picture of 30 amp shore power plug that was recently replaced.
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #17 –
Eek! That's scary.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #18 –
Hi Kim; I've seen that before. The person didn't get the wires correct.  The hot and neutrals were reversed, so basically a dead short to ground from the hot wire (black), mistakenly connected to the shiny silver screw head. The black screw head should  be connected to the black wire and the white wire to the silver headed screw. (neutral) It might be hard to tell which was what now.  There may be damaged melted insulation and more inside YOUR power distribution box (where the circuit breakers are). Current traveled all the way to inside your rig and back to the plug.  Did this happen instantly as you plugged into the socket, or when you turned on the pedestal 30A circuit breaker? Did you detect any smoke at the converter.
   Too bad this person couldn't bother to check it with a voltmeter, or just plug it in using a 'dogbone' adaptor.  That person is on the hook for all repairs, and no it's not your fault!  The implied contract for you paying for this service, means that he accepted, that you expected for that work to be done correctly.
   I might take it to an electrician for an estimate, take pictures, and the estimate for repairs inside your electrical distribution box. Basically after this event, all of the wiring coming into the rig has to be checked for damage.
   Lazy Daze used #8 wire from the terminal end inside the cord storage compartment, over to the distribution box. so that should be ok. (should still look at it. It will require removing the oven to get to it. Disconnecting the propane line allows more dangerous errors.)   I had a friend at a LD Caravan Club plug into a miswired outlet at Ventura Ca. a year ago. I repaired her damage, she was lucky, the neutral wire melted very quickly.  Checked the outlet just weeks ago at Ventura and my temporary tape over the outlet marking it as wired backwards, was still there, unfixed!).  (her rig was an '89)        RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #19 –
This plug was installed over 4 years ago.
I have no interest in engaging the shop that replaced it.
It would be a fight with unknown results.
I would not want them touching the electrical system, seems like a simple thing to have done right and they did it wrong.

I was at the festival for around 10 days at that point. Plugged into the surge protector. No heat or smoke, just lost shore power in the early afternoon. 

Hot day, over 5 thousand campers, micro burst the day before and lots of tree limbs and power being restored to different camps over the course of 16 hours. It was a recipe for disaster: Incorrect installation of a 30 amp plug and surges going through the campgrounds it fried.

My plan is to look at the back side of the electrical panel, assuming if something was wrong it would look black and scored.

I will let report back, plug has already been replaced, Kimberley
2000 Mid Bath
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #20 –
Quote from: kvc  - 
picture of 30 amp shore power plug that was recently replaced.

Shore power plugs that have replacement plugs with screw terminals should be periodically opened up to tighten the screws and inspect for burning. Burning like this is often seen during the air conditioning season when the cords are carrying large current loads for hours at a time.

Similar burning can many times be found in the 120-VAC side of the Power Center’s screw terminals that are not regularly checked and tightened.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #21 –
I've seen that happen on a friend's rig just this past summer.  She was using an old (RV) extension cord and was running the AC extensively as it was well over 100 degrees here.  There was apparently a poor connection between the extension cord socket and the RV plug...  both overheated and melted and looked just like yours. 

(I might be looking at it backwards or something but that burned plug end looks to be wired correctly when compared to the diagram I used when replacing the plug end on the end of the RV cord?)
1995 26.5 Island Bed
Re: 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker
Reply #22 –
OK Hard to tell where that plug has been. As Larry stated Air conditioning take a lot of power and stresses out the weakest links where screw connections loosen up over time.  I haven't checked my plug on my coach, but I do feel it carefully for heat build up if I've been running the A/C heavily, as I put it away.
   I do check the connections to the buss bars and circuit breakers inside the power distribution box every year or so.
RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB