fridge replacement January 18, 2024, 05:24:12 pm I just upgraded to Battleborn Lithium batteries in my 2005 TK, I have 400Wt of Solar and I am contemplating upgrading my fridge to a 12V compressor. It appears that the old unit must go out the back window . The new unit I am looking and Everchill has a 10.7 CU ft, almost doubling the 6 Cu ft I have now. It is 5 i inches taller but I think if I sacrifice the drawer below I can make it work.Has anyone changes out a fridge?jay
Re: fridge replacement Reply #1 – January 18, 2024, 07:15:09 pm Welcome to the Forum.400 watts of solar is not going to be adequate for a 12-volt compressor refrigerator, with or without a lithium battery. It is way too little for summertime usage and even worse in the winter with short days and the low-angle sun.Assuming you want to dry camp of boondock, to handle normal electrical needs and a 12-volt refrigerator, a minimum of 800-1000 watts of solar and 400-amp/hour of lithium batteries is a better estimate, and even then, it will probably require generator time in the winter or when parked in a shady spot.You can put 1000 watts of solar on a T/K but it will take the entire roof and a bit of planning. You will also need to give up storage space for the additional batteries. This isn't going to be cheap.With a bit of work and accessorizing, the Factory propane refrigerator can be made to work adequately and is a lot less expensive to do.Larry 2 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #2 – January 18, 2024, 08:29:31 pm As Larry said, you are unlikely to be happy with the fridge upgrade. Propane fridges are not that efficient, but your propane energy storage is vastly more than any battery you can carry, and 400W of solar panels will leave you undercharged a lot of the time. But, with a large inverter, you will be able to use the microwave, a hair dryer, etc, without stressing your system, as these sorts of items use a lot of wattage for fairly brief periods. For instance, our microwave consumes about 140 Amps from our batteries. A 5 minute run will consume 140 X 5/60 = 12 Ah of battery storage, quickly replenished by solar on a sunny day.Steve
Re: fridge replacement Reply #3 – January 18, 2024, 10:56:50 pm I always travel with our 2-way Dometic fridge running on electricity (via solar/lithium) while on the road. I have occasionally forgotten to switch back to propane when reaching our destination. By early the next day when I finally realize my error, I’ll take a look at my remaining battery reservoir. If I’m not mistaken, my 100% charged 500 amp hour lithium batteries are down to about 35% state of charge. On a sunny day, my 825 watts of solar can bring my batts back to fully charged in about a day (or longer). The generator gets everything back up to snuff in very short order. Running the fridge on propane in the campground, I have no such power usage and the lithiums stay nicely charged . I may have to tie a piece of string on my finger. ☝️Kent 1 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #4 – January 18, 2024, 11:15:51 pm Upgraded my TK to 850watts and 400ah Lithium two years ago, as well as a whole house inverter.Run just about everything off electricity, with the original fridge being the exception, only because propane is so darned effective, but if it fails, I’ll replace with a compressor fridge.One benefits of the upgrade were my ferry crossings where you normally have to turn off the fridge because you cannot run propane appliances while loaded onto a ferry. Found I could run my fridge on DC for at least 16 hours, only had to turn off the fridge on the 36 hour ferry from Bellingham to Ketchikan. 3 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #5 – January 19, 2024, 10:58:29 am Here's my post on my experience with a DC frig. (DC Frig) If you search for threads on this you'll find others. Lots of good information. Really like ours. Regarding removing the old frig, on an MB it will slide right out the dinette window without removing anything. Good luck!jor
Re: fridge replacement Reply #6 – January 19, 2024, 05:37:47 pm Thank you JOR,Your results are different from the other advice I have gotten and more inline with what I had been led t5o believe form different sources. How much Solar do you run. I centrally think I can afford to give up 25 % of my Battery capacity on a daily basis
Re: fridge replacement Reply #7 – January 19, 2024, 06:13:51 pm QuoteHow much Solar do you run?I installed solar when I did the frig. Put in 800 watts and 300 ah lithiums. I had taken down the factory two 100 watt panels and stored them next to the garage. Every time I walked by those panels I lamented their lack of purpose just sitting there doing nothing. Anyhow, a couple of weeks ago, I added them so now I've got a thousand. Nice round number! jor
Re: fridge replacement Reply #8 – January 20, 2024, 06:40:51 pm Quote from: jayway - January 19, 2024, 05:37:47 pmThank you JOR,Your results are different from the other advice I have gotten and more inline with what I had been led t5o believe form different sources. How much Solar do you run. I centrally think I can afford to give up 25 % of my Battery capacity on a daily basis Your 400W of panels flat on the roof will produce about 20 - 25 Ah of replacement charge to your batteries on a good sunny summer day, about 10% of your battery capacity:PVWatts CalculatorSteve 1 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #9 – January 20, 2024, 11:25:16 pm Steve, that 20 - 25 amp-hour estimate seems unduly pessimistic. I have 400 watts of panels flat on my roof. It’s January—not summer—and I’ve experienced a mix of sunny and partly cloudy days in the past couple of weeks. Looking at the history of my Victron solar controller, I see 35 to 55 Ah coming in daily.Now, if I were camping under trees, it would be a different story. I’m out in the open. But even on a mostly cloudy day, I’m getting 25+ Ah—and these are close to the shortest days of the year.
Re: fridge replacement Reply #10 – January 21, 2024, 03:03:07 am Quote from: Andy Baird - January 20, 2024, 11:25:16 pmI have 400 watts of panels flat on my roof. It’s January—not summer—and I’ve experienced a mix of sunny and partly cloudy days in the past couple of weeks. Looking at the history of my Victron solar controller, I see 35 to 55 Ah coming in daily.On mid-winter, sunny days our 560 watts of solar usually keeps the 40-qt 12-volt compressor ice chest running and adds 40-60 A/H of charge into the lithiums. Cloudy days or shade changes everything and can require some generator time occasionally. Cooler winter days require little to keep the compressor ice chest at 40 degrees, in the summer, its power usage is much higher. I'm surprised the charge rates are as high as they are, on winter days we see up to 15 amps of charge, in mid-summer peaks of 25 amps are not uncommon, assuming a clear sky and no shade. There is a huge difference in the daily charge accumulation between the summer and winter. The lithium battery uses the available solar charging power much more efficiently than lead-acid batteries.Larry
Re: fridge replacement Reply #11 – January 21, 2024, 11:36:26 am Quote from: Andy Baird - January 20, 2024, 11:25:16 pmSteve, that 20 - 25 amp-hour estimate seems unduly pessimistic. I have 400 watts of panels flat on my roof. It’s January—not summer—and I’ve experienced a mix of sunny and partly cloudy days in the past couple of weeks. Looking at the history of my Victron solar controller, I see 35 to 55 Ah coming in daily.Andy, the tool I linked is used by residential solar installers, and is pretty flexible. I found it highly accurate for performance tracking of the 7.5kW of panels on our home on clear, sunny days. My calculations here are approximate, because I did not allow for the reduced losses when not using inverter coupling as in a typical home, but these results are based on average monthly conditions in San Francisco. More open inland results would be higher. Using the tool, anyone can get a good, conservative result for any location, based on historical data for that area. It gives results by month, so for daily averages divide by the days in that month.Steve 1 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #12 – January 21, 2024, 06:23:28 pm I don't know how to account for the difference, Steve. I can only report the numbers I see here.For the record, when boondocking in the desert, my 400 watts of panels on the roof are adequate for about eight to nine months of the year--but in the winter, I find that I need to add my 200 watt "solar suitcase" on the ground, tilted to about 30° and facing south. If I didn't have a 12 V compressor fridge, that probably wouldn't be necessary, but then of course I'd be buying propane more often... so I'm happy with this setup.By the way, let's hear it (again) for lithium batteries! On a recent sewing project that required the use of my household iron, I noticed that it was intermittently drawing 95 amps. That kind of load would have been brutal for lead-acid batteries, due to Peukert effect. But my Lithionics LiFePO4 batteries took it in stride, and were back up to 96% soon after I finished that phase of the project. 3 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #13 – April 08, 2024, 08:08:20 pm I just completed my battery /solar/inverter/controller/fridge upgrade on my 2005 TKI started out by buying two Battleborn 100amp lithium, I ended up buying two more for a total of 400 amp hours. I had 400 watts of gopower solar and added 200 more for 600 watts of flexible glue down power. I also added a gopower battery monitor and 1500 watt whole house inverter and I had to upgrade the parallax charger to work with the lithiumFinally I upgraded the 6.3 cu Dometic absorption fridge to a 10 cu ft Dometic 12 v unit. In order to make it fit I had to lose the drawer below but other than that it fit right in. The hardest thing was getting the old unit out the side window. My best measurement said it would slide out but unfortunately I had to beat the outside edge to slip it out. The new unit slipped right in and I’m looking forward to double the fridge space
Re: fridge replacement Reply #14 – April 09, 2024, 03:08:34 am Very Nice Jay; I have an older 'TK on the E350 chassis. A few questions? did you have the BlueSky R3000i solar controller, and if you do, does it handle the 600W of solar? where did you put it all, it sounds like it wouldn't all fit. I think your year came with the diode isolator, is your charging method the same? The 10 cu/ft refrigerator, is that a freon compressor fridge? Do you run your microwave oven off of the inverter? Pictures are always appreciated. Congratulations on your big upgrade! RonB
Re: fridge replacement Reply #15 – April 09, 2024, 10:28:13 am My unit dint have any solar form the factory. I used all Gopower panels and controller.Since i fist installed the panels, Gopower was acquired by Dometic and is now Gpower Dometic. The controller I have maxes out at 600 and I used almost all of my roof space to fit it all in.The controller I had was a parallax 7345 and I had to upgrade it to work with the Lithium.The fridge is a 12V only, so far I have seen it draw 10 amps when it starts up and drops to 2 amps or less when it is at temp. I wanted two getaway for my dependence on propane and increase my storage. the old absorption fridge worked fine and I am only sorry I count get it out the coach win one piece to pass it on to someone else. It is currently sitting on my curb waiting for the recycler.My inverter does run my microwave and would run the air unit but not for long. the microwave is never on for more than a few minutes and that was one of the main incentives for adding the inverter.here are the components I added, Ill take some photos today and post latter.Amazon.com: Dometic DMC4101 10 Cu. Ft, 12V DC Right Hinge Compressor...Amazon.com: GO Power! 82958 GP-BMK-25 Battery Monitor Kit,Black : AutomotiveAmazon.com: GoPower Go Power! GP-ISW1500-12 Industrial Pure Sine Wave...Amazon.com: GP-FLEX-220: 200W/11.42A Solar KIT W. 30A Digital Controller :...Amazon.com: Go Power! GP-DC-KIT3 DC Installation Kit for 1100-1800-Watt /...Amazon.com: Progressive International Dynamics PD4645V Inteli-Power 4600... 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: fridge replacement Reply #16 – April 09, 2024, 10:57:52 am Quote from: jayway - April 08, 2024, 08:08:20 pmFinally I upgraded the 6.3 cu Dometic absorption fridge to a 10 cu ft Dometic 12 v unit. In order to make it fit I had to lose the drawer below but other than that it fit right in.Was about to ask which model until I read about losing the drawer. Will have to make do with 8 cu when the time comes.
Re: fridge replacement Reply #17 – April 09, 2024, 12:57:03 pm Hi Dave; I commented about 4 months ago about a Novakool (Canadian) 9.1 cubic foot one (or two) 12v compressor two door refrigerator/freezer that would fit in my space without modifications. DC Refrigerator Freezer on the bottom, external exhaust and no propane involved. Also available in the same size with two compressor and separate temperature controls. The RFU9000 might be a tight squeeze. My choice as an easier install would be the 7.3 cubic foot RFU 8220. RonB 1 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #18 – April 09, 2024, 04:59:01 pm This one would have fit inn my TK without sacrificing the drawer but I wanted the extra space and I didn't need the drawerAmazon.com: Dometic DMC4081CFRH RV Refrigerator - 8 cu.ft. Storage, 12VDC...I forgot to mention I added a switch for the charging system and the solar controller works as a remote for the inverter.Amazon.com: Go Power! GP-TS 30 Amp Prewired Transfer Switch for Quick... As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: fridge replacement Reply #20 – April 09, 2024, 05:04:00 pm the control center, switch and inverter 1 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #21 – April 09, 2024, 06:30:11 pm My battery/inverter goodies are under the passenger side couch.Personal preference, I like more internal storage, though I did lose a significant chunk of the large passenger bay.Aren’t those lay flat flexible solar panels inherently less efficient because they don’t get air circulation (cooling)? Or is that an old problem they’ve resolved?
Re: fridge replacement Reply #22 – April 09, 2024, 06:37:29 pm I have a mid-bath. I appropriated the cabinet under the drawer under the fridge for batteries #3 and #4. I would fear for my life if I were to be caught even looking at that drawer! It would have to be a fridge that fit into the current fridge space for us. 2 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #23 – April 09, 2024, 07:21:17 pm "Aren’t those lay flat flexible solar panels inherently less efficient because they don’t get air circulation (cooling)?"Yes. Solar panels don't work as efficiently when hot. Another issue is that gluing a panel flat on your roof is effectively the same as painting that roof area black--it's going to radiate heat into the coach. And finally, from what I have seen, the warranties on flexible panels are much shorter than those on rigid panels, because they generally don't last as long. (I've seen a couple of failures myself.) Rigid panels are typically warranted for 10-15 years, while flexible panels typically carry warranties of 2-5 years. 2 Likes
Re: fridge replacement Reply #24 – April 09, 2024, 07:38:09 pm For now my glue down panels work great and the install was supper easy. 2 Likes
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