Driving an LD August 13, 2023, 10:46:35 pm Can someone tell me is it normal for the LD to shake when getting passed by semi-trucks? My partner and I took our new to us 1998 mb LD and we had it tuned-up, new right and left radius arm bushings, new rear axle sway bar bushings and mounting bracket, new bilstein damper arm installed, alignment and new monroe shocks installed, also had the parking brake reservoir topped up and the pcv valve checked before we took it on a trip. He has drove trucks and trailer, but never an RV. He was concerned when a truck passed us how it seemed to rock from the backwash. He felt like it wasn't stable, like he was driving a boat. He said if he drove over 60 he felt like he would lose control. His old pick-up truck has some loose steering so he thought this was good steering when we took it on our shake-down. I should have test drove it, but I didn't. Anyway after driving it on I80 west he was nervous . I ended up finding a shop and told them the circumstances and they repaired and replaced the tie-rod ends. That made it a little better. But, he still said it needs improvement. The shop mentioned to us that the monroe shocks were meant for an E450 and not an E350 and of course when I checked the receipt, that was correct they thought we had an E450. Also we weighed at the cat scales and had the tire pressure adjusted, but we didn't feel like we could get it just right. I was trying to follow the LD manual and my partner and the shop disagreed with me. So, that could have also been a contributing factor. We were 12620 pounds. And they had higher inflation in the front and lower in the back which was driving me crazy. Anyway, experts please weigh in so we don't have to start couples counseling (ha ha ha). 2 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #1 – August 13, 2023, 11:28:29 pm What pressures are you running in the tires?
Re: Driving an LD Reply #2 – August 13, 2023, 11:34:50 pm It was 80 in the front, 65 in the rear. We have the tpms and it was getting up to 85 in front and 70 plus in the rear while running.
Re: Driving an LD Reply #3 – August 13, 2023, 11:37:19 pm I agree with Greg, proper tire inflation is everything. Glad you got your rig weighed, it’s critical for getting the right pressure.Go with the tire manufacturers recommendations based upon weight, not your Lazy Daze manual.My 2017 TK handles quite well with my Michelins, but you mentioned I-80, as a native Nebraskan who has driven I-80 more than I’d like to admit, the cross winds through there are nasty, even with perfect inflation, driving in heavy crosswinds will be taxing. 4 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #4 – August 13, 2023, 11:48:18 pm Quote from: Joansie - August 13, 2023, 11:34:50 pmIt was 80 in the front, 65 in the rear. We have the tpms and it was getting up to 85 in front and 70 plus in the rear while running.The numbers you go by are when cold.Granted, I don’t know your tire brand, but those numbers are high if they were Michelins at your weight.If my Michelin Agilis Crossclimates were inflated like that, those numbers would correspond to 6170 lbs on the front axial, and 10140 on the rear. But get your own numbers from your tire manufacturer. 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #5 – August 14, 2023, 12:23:54 am They are the Bridgestone Duelers. The front weight was 4180 and the rear was 8440.
Re: Driving an LD Reply #6 – August 14, 2023, 01:14:43 am Quote from: Joansie - August 14, 2023, 12:23:54 amThey are the Bridgestone Duelers. The front weight was 4180 and the rear was 8440.At least from my quick browse of Bridgestone’s website, they don’t provide pressures for given weights like Michelin does, they instead cop-out and refer you to the vehicle manufacturer (Ford)For my 2017, my door jam label says Front: 75psi @ 5000 lbs Rear: 80psi @ 9600 lbsIf your numbers on your door are similar, your pressures are off, though even those values are high given your current weights, which would adversely affect handling.It’s disappointing Bridgestone doesn’t readily provide pressures for their tires. 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #7 – August 14, 2023, 06:44:50 am Joansie-From what I've read, the V10-powered E-series chassis can benefit from increased front-end caster- the maximum recommended by Ford or maybe a bit more than that. Try searching the Internet for the terms "E-series" and "caster" and you should find Web posts with details.Again, "The Web" says that caster should be at the maximum of the recommended range, or a little more, for best reduction in front-end wandering.The Ford F-53 Class A motorhome chassis is quite different than the Class C van-based E-Series. It is prone tail-wag caused by passing vehicles. The fix for that is to install a rear track (a.k.a. Panhard) bar. The track bar keeps the rear axle centered under the frame, substantially reducing tail wag. I have no idea if they make track bars for the E-series chassis.My 1997-8 MB handled fairly well, although it always helped to watch the left-side mirror and so anticipate truck push with small steering wheel motions.Mark H. 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #8 – August 14, 2023, 09:01:56 am I posted this information about 5 years ago. Hope it helps the OP. When we first drove our LD the rather significant amount of RV wandering was a huge disappointment and made me wonder if we made a mistake. After reading about Ford E series wandering problems I knew we had to make some corrections. I remembered reading guidance from Larry Wade on this issue which was to make corrections slowly and to be aware of what one is trying to correct with the various suspension adjustments and upgrades.When we bought our LD it had mismatched tires with the rear tires showing considerable wear. So our first step to resolving RV wandering was new Michelin tires. This step included weighing the LD and adjusting tire pressure accordingly.The second step was an alignment which included an after-market caster kit and an increase in caster. These two (2) changes made a measurable difference in improving the steering and reducing the wandering issue.Our next step was to install a rear Hellwig Sway Bar which was a great help with managing wind gusts and wind waves from large passing trucks. Before we installed the rear sway bar, large passing trucks would push the towed vehicle to the right causing the front of the RV to move towards the passing truck. After the installation, large passing trucks would cause the LD to gently push to the right side of the road similar to a gust of wind. In addition, the rear of the LD was more settled in a variety of road conditions to include off-camber curves, rolling bumps, and so forth.Our next step was to install a Bilstein Steering Damper which helped with steering in a variety of sudden changes in road conditions. I didn't notice much difference in handling as compared to the other changes.A few weeks ago, Margee and I installed a new front Hellwig Sway Bar. We've put about 600 miles on the LD with the new front sway bar and I'm very pleased with the results. There is almost no tendency of the RV to follow irregularities in the road which means that we drive in a straight line. The front end is much calmer with rolling bumps, dips, and cornering. The bursts of wind from large passing trucks has been reduced to a gentle nudge which we handle with barely any thought or effort. The steering adjustments are about the same as in our car.Recently, I asked Margee if she could tell any difference from the navigator's seat. She said the LD feels calmer and without sudden jerks, bumps, pushes or corrections. Our Rig has no measurable wandering, tracks straight down the road, and feels calm in all the conditions that we've experienced. As a result, Margee and I are driving relaxed and without road induced anxiety. For a long time, we drove tense because of poor handling which made a 200-300 mile day a beast. Our LD doesn't tire us out … old age and sitting too long make us tired.I hope this summary might help some of the newer members to our LD Neighborhood. 14 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #9 – August 14, 2023, 09:27:24 am Hello Joansie,I want to address some terminology and issues you have brought up. Hopefully my comments will help you better understand your Lazy DazeI believe you indicated your LD is a 1998 Midbath. A 1998 Midbath Floorplan would indicate your rig is 26.5 feet long. It is my understanding that in 1998, the 26.5 feet long units were built on a Ford E350 "Super Duty" chassis. I think the following year it became designated as the E450 chassis. Shorter units were built on a Ford E350 chassis until the 2003 model year. I bring this up because I believe your new shock absorbers which were meant for the Ford E450 chassis are probably the *correct* shocks.The next item I want to discuss is the words you used, "is it normal for the Lazy Daze to *shake* when getting passed by semi-trucks?"; the key word here is "shake". Shaking is NOT normal. I would take "shake" to mean rocking back and forth, shuddering or heavy vibrations. However it IS normal to feel the the RV move a bit in reaction to the wind. To me, it does seem similar to being in a boat being pushed by a wave, so your partner may be experiencing that. I have observed that certain shaped vehicles cause more of that effect than others. This situation is unsettling at first but I do think most folks get used to it and by checking the mirrors you can anticipate it ahead of time.I do think your Lazy Daze may be mishandling because in MY opinion, you have your tires inflated incorrectly...by a lot too! I have no idea where the idea for 80# psi in the fronts and 65# for the rears came from. Totally backwards!! I don't have my original weight sticker in front of me but I do think my 2003 came in with similar weights to your rig. I use the following inflation numbers: 66# in the FRONT tires and 76# in the REAR tires. One repair shop over inflated my front tires to 80# and the handling of my rig was very harsh on my way home.To summarize. IF I were you, I would adjust my cold tire pressures to 66# in the front tires and 76# in the rear tires. See how that handles. I suspect you will notice a considerable improvement. If that does not make an improvement, have a proper front end alignment performed with the correct tire pressures set. Did you buy those Bridgestone tires or did they come with the rig? It is possible you have a defective tire. Bridgestone makes quality tires but I have ALWAYS bought Michelin tires for my 2003 Lazy Daze. At 140,000 miles my rig still drives very well.Good luck, but please fix those tire pressures!Steve K 10 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #10 – August 14, 2023, 09:34:30 am Quote from: Joansie - August 13, 2023, 11:34:50 pmIt was 80 in the front, 65 in the rear. We have the tpms and it was getting up to 85 in front and 70 plus in the rear while running.As an experiment, try lowering your front pressures to 65 psi and increase the rears to 75. Let us know if that makes a difference (that’s what my Michelin’s are at). If positive results occur, you can fine-tune from there based on your actual weights and tire brand.Edit: just saw Steve K’s post. What he said! 3 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #11 – August 14, 2023, 10:59:11 am Quote from: Joansie - August 13, 2023, 11:34:50 pmIt was 80 in the front, 65 in the rear. We have the tpms and it was getting up to 85 in front and 70 plus in the rear while running.That's BackwardsTire inflation is discussed ad infinitum in The Companion. I am disappointed the gurus above did not direct you there. 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #12 – August 14, 2023, 11:48:06 am Quote from: Joansie - August 14, 2023, 12:23:54 amThey are the Bridgestone Duelers. The front weight was 4180 and the rear was 8440.Checking a weight chart for LT22 5/75-R16 tires, Load Range E shows the front tires set at 60 psi and the rear tires at 65 psi.Half of your problem is having too much air in the tires.Michelin RV Tires | View Michelin RV Tires load and inflation tables for...E450 shocks are probably the same as E350s, assuming they have the same travel length. I doubt they are causing any issues.The 'bow wave' effect when a big truck passes is normal, it will push the RV away from the truck for a moment. Disconcerting at times? Oh yes, especially if not prepared, you will get used to it along with the minor wandering that all twin-I beam suspensions have after a few hundred miles of travel.The front end must be in good shape, there are a lot of moving parts to wear and need to be checked and aligned by an expert front-end tech. Adding extra caster, up into the 6-1/2 - 7 degrees range makes the drive much easier. The toe-in adjustment also makes a big difference.Before installing any extras, make sure the stock equipment is in top shape, along with the steering box being tight.We have put over 140,000 miles on the stock front-end setup, except for adding Bilstein shocks, without feeling the need to beef the suspension up with heavy-duty after-market parts. The steering and suspension system works fine when in good shape. Ford built a strong chassis.We have replaced the radius-arm bushings, tie rod, sway bar bushing, steering stabilizer, and ball joints. Larry 3 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #13 – August 14, 2023, 11:56:26 am Quote from: Don Malpas - August 14, 2023, 10:59:11 amThat's BackwardsTire inflation is discussed ad infinitum in The Companion. I am disappointed the gurus above did not direct you there.To provide some direction:The Lazy Daze Companion: tiresRich
Re: Driving an LD Reply #14 – August 14, 2023, 12:59:36 pm Thanks for the replies. Okay, it sounds like we have a plan to work with.Lower the front air pressure and add to the rear. Incidentally, these tires were on when we bought this. They were three years old with 30 miles on them and yes it was sitting on wooden blocks to level (and I have read not to store long term like that) as the owner had failing health and hadn't used it. Leave the shocks alone Have the steering box checked Have the caster adjusted to Larry's suggestion.Has anyone added airbags or sumo springs?Green hand Joan 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #15 – August 14, 2023, 02:10:00 pm "...and need to be checked and aligned by an expert front-end tech. "I have a 30' [stretched-frame] LD. Shortly after it's delivery I took it to Henderson's Line Up in Grants Pass, OR. for it's 1st alignment. During their assessment it was discovered that the rear end was out of alignment. The supposition being that the rear axle 'U' bolts had not been secured to spec. during the frame lengthening. Once that was corrected everything else fell into place and I went away driving a totally different feeling motorhome. 2 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #16 – August 14, 2023, 03:47:26 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - August 14, 2023, 10:59:11 amThat's BackwardsTire inflation is discussed ad infinitum in The Companion. I am disappointed the gurus above did not direct you there.Don, the reason I did not refer the person to the Companion is that it is so difficult to find the specific subject on that most valuable site. I think tire pressure discussion is listed under tires; at least I'm didn't see "Tire Pressure" listed on the table of contents other than "Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems". The questioner was really asking about the handling of their rig. But then again, I am not a "guru" just a long time original owner still driving down the road.Steve K 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #17 – August 14, 2023, 04:23:34 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - August 14, 2023, 02:10:00 pm"...and need to be checked and aligned by an expert front-end tech. "I have a 30' [stretched-frame] LD. Shortly after it's delivery I took it to Henderson's Line Up in Grants Pass, OR. for it's 1st alignment. During their assessment it was discovered that the rear end was out of alignment. The supposition being that the rear axle 'U' bolts had not been secured to spec. during the frame lengthening. Once that was corrected everything else fell into place and I went away driving a totally different feeling motorhome. Maybe we should consider a trip up there for service with them. 2 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #18 – August 14, 2023, 05:01:58 pm Joansie,You got some advice today about addressing your Lazy Daze's handling issues; I suspect you haven't tried those yet. Your questions about adding air bags or sumo springs before trying the suggestions tells me that you want someone to wave a magic wand to make the issues go away. Many people have gone to Henderson's and spent a LOT of money in the process. The Ford Econoline chassis is not going to handle like a conventional passenger vehicle or even a pickup truck. I realize you are frustrated now, but most owners are satisfied with their rigs handling without driving to Oregon to throw more money at a problem that may easily be corrected with an air compressor.Do what you have got to do....stay safe out there.Steve K 2 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #19 – August 14, 2023, 05:47:06 pm Quote from: Steve K. - August 14, 2023, 05:01:58 pmJoansie,You got some advice today about addressing your Lazy Daze's handling issues; I suspect you haven't tried those yet. Your questions about adding air bags or sumo springs before trying the suggestions tells me that you want someone to wave a magic wand to make the issues go away. Many people have gone to Henderson's and spent a LOT of money in the process. The Ford Econoline chassis is not going to handle like a conventional passenger vehicle or even a pickup truck. I realize you are frustrated now, but most owners are satisfied with their rigs handling without driving to Oregon to throw more money at a problem that may easily be corrected with an air compressor.Do what you have got to do....stay safe out there.Steve KOkay Steve, I will cool my jets. I don't want to throw money away. Thanks for the candidness.
Re: Driving an LD Reply #20 – August 14, 2023, 05:53:47 pm "Many people have gone to Henderson's and spent a LOT of money in the process."Yes, that's quite true! However, Henderson's is a retail service provider, like many others, whose bottom line is profit. Yes, they will try to get gullible people to buy what may or may not solve their perceived problems. What's that Roman phrase, Caveat... ?An astute consumer should be aware and prepared to expect an enticement. Bottom line is this, Henderson's workmanship and knowledge is 2nd to none! 3 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #21 – August 14, 2023, 06:45:46 pm Joansie,For a quick reference guide, I turn to our Lazy Daze Owners Manual. Here is a screenshot straight out of ours. In addition are tire pressure guides and our data from RV Weigh.Originally for our 2015 27’ RB, I had set the front tires at 65 psi and the rears at 75 psi. After speaking with Larry, I increased the fronts to 70 psi and the rears to 80 psi.It’s always been recommended to have the fronts lower in pressure than the rears. We have no extras installed on our rig and except for high winds (which have me slowing significantly below our usual 62 mph) semi rigs cause only the gentlest nudge. After nearly 8 years of driving the rig since new, I have never felt fatigued from driving the LD for the better part of 6 hours (sometimes 10 or more with frequent breaks or rest stops). For me, the rig is a pleasant drive.Hope you get a handle on your issues.Kent 3 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #22 – August 14, 2023, 07:52:15 pm When a semi truck passes me, my RV moves a bit to the right because of the movement of air the semi makes.It doesn't shake when doing this but it is noticeable. 1 Likes
Re: Driving an LD Reply #23 – August 14, 2023, 11:05:07 pm Okay, he says it is not shaking we are just getting pushed he said. We will adjust the pressures. Thanks for the feedback to all.
Re: Driving an LD Reply #24 – August 15, 2023, 12:15:49 pm Quote from: Jota - August 14, 2023, 07:52:15 pmWhen a semi truck passes me, my RV moves a bit to the right because of the movement of air the semi makes.It doesn't shake when doing this but it is noticeable.I've noticed the same thing when a semi passes- it pushes you away initially but sucks you back towards it at the very end as the trailer passes. As long as you anticipate it, it's no problem. 5 Likes
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