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Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
We picked up our 2010 MB from the factory in January 2011.  The AGM Lifeline house batteries are original so they are approximately 13 years old.  We have had no problems with the house batteries, the 2 factory installed solar panels, or the factory installed HPV-22B charge controller.
I am feeling we are living on borrowed time with the house batteries (the LD Manual says average life is 5-6 years) and should probably have them replaced.  Since we live in the NW, we will likely take the LD to AM Solar in Oregon to have new Lifeline AGM batteries installed.  We seem to get by fine with 200W of solar so we are not looking to add more solar.  Nor do we think we need lithium batteries.  Given that, is there anything else we should consider upgrading while the LD is at AM Solar?  For example, is there some benefit to changing charge controllers even though the HPV-22B controller is working fine?
Paul
2010 MB (2011-present)                                                                                        
1994 Multiplan (1997-2010)
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #1 –
My last coach batteries -- one them lasted exactly one year during the warranty... then I needed to replace both of them together again,  although one was still okay. No warranty coverage are all... Dammit, ONE year!
1997 MB
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #2 –
I had my solar upgrade at AM Solar in Eugene 13 months, would highly recommend, they are well versed in working on Lazy Daze.

If you are replacing house batteries at this point I question not going with Lithium.

    They last far longer than AGM
     Weigh less than AGM
     You can use 100% of the rated 100ah (vs 50% for AGM)

In the long run, you’ll save money because they are likely the last house batteries you’ll buy.
Yes they are more up front.

Might need a new charge controller, unless the HPV-22B has switch for Lithium.
Dave

2017 TK
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #3 –
"I am feeling we are living on borrowed time..."

My 2¢ says you're way beyond the end of your string with those batteries! Where do you get your lucky charms?

As far as AM Solar is concerned, I cannot say enough good about them. I've used their services two, perhaps three, times and always left their facility with a smile on my face, thinking I'd stolen the Golden Goose.  :D

Since I'm no longer the Captain of The Lazy Bones I hope that the current skipper will consider AM Solar when an up-grade becomes necessary. That would include Lithium batteries.   ;)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
 
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #4 –
You might pose the question to AM Solar and get their take.

 Is there a lifespan for the solar panels (I only had 1 when I got it and may not have upgraded had I initially got 2)?

If you are in the drive-it-forever camp, you might consider your needs over the next 10 years.
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #5 –
Quote from: joel wiley  - 
Is there a lifespan for the solar panels (I only had 1 when I got it and may not have upgraded had I initially got 2)?
Lifespan, sorta.

25-30 years, slowly losing power generation ability but rarely ever just dying.

But newer ones generate more power for the same size, result of improvements, for less money.


Dave

2017 TK
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #6 –
In addition to the advantages Dave mentioned, LiFePO4 batteries accept charge much faster than AGMs. This means that on a partly sunny day, you'll have a better chance of getting a good charge; and if you need to run your generator, you won't have to run it as long.

Given that LiFePO4 prices are now close to AGM prices, it probably makes sense to switch. You'll want to replace the HPV-22 with a Blue Sky 3000i to keep the lithium batteries happy, and a Progressive Dynamics converter would be a good idea. These are both straightforward swaps, according to those who have done them. I'd mount the lithium batteries under the fridge, to keep them from getting too cold or too hot.

Swapping in a pair of AGMs sounds appealingly simple, but I agree with those who've said that the advantages of LiFePO4 make it the better choice. I think you'll be glad you made the switch. But talk to AM Solar about it; they will have good advice.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #7 –
Hi Paul,

As you know I bought Pete Reed's 2000 RK last summer. Although the factory installed solar was still charging the 6v lead acid batteries I found this year when we went to City of Rocks State Park that they did not hold a charge. So I made the decision to switch to LI batteries. Through this LD Owners group I decided to replace the 85w solar panel and the Heliotrope controller. I did it myself and asked question of this group which they quickly answered. I am pleased with the upgrade. But my rv is 10 years older than yours and the solar still worked. It was the batteries that caused me to think about the upgrade. I did have problems on my way up to the LDNW get to gather in May and stopped at AM Solar. They let me stay overnight and reviewed by work. They made suggestions and a quote which I am still looking at. I also checked with my brother who has electronics background in setting up radio transmitters in BC. For the 2 x 100a panels my wiring is good. If I went to 4 panels he said I should upgrade the wiring to 8g. Am Solar could not get the inverter to work and since it was new I sent it back to amazon and replaced it with the same 2200w model. I installed that myself in the campground and it works. Right now I only have the entertainment center on it but plan to add the microwave once we get back home. I have two 100a SOK lithium batteries and they are great. I got them trough Will Prose's website and his Youtube videos also helped me greatly on recommendations and how to put the system together.. I need to weatherize the battery box as my next project and Larry W shows how he did it and I will try the same. Good seeing you and Kay at the get to gather.
Kevin
Kevin Hannah
Green Valley, AZ
Owner of 2000 26.5 RK, came back to the family
Previously 2014 Newmar Baystar
Previously 2001 LD 26.5 MB
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
In addition to the advantages Dave mentioned, LiFePO4 batteries accept charge much faster than AGMs. This means that on a partly sunny day, you'll have a better chance of getting a good charge; and if you need to run your generator, you won't have to run it as long.

Given that LiFePO4 prices are now close to AGM prices, it probably makes sense to switch. You'll want to replace the HPV-22 with a Blue Sky 3000i to keep the lithium batteries happy, and a Progressive Dynamics converter would be a good idea. These are both straightforward swaps. I'd mount the lithium batteries under the fridge, to keep them from getting too cold or too hot.

Swapping in a pair of AGMs sounds appealingly simple, but I agree with those who've said that the advantages of LiFePO4 make it the better choice. I think you'll be glad you made the switch. But talk to AM Solar about it; they will have good advice.

Hi Andy,
I updated my rig with a new Progressive Dynamics converter. I still run non lithium batteries but eventually will convert. I have the original HPV22 solar charger and would like to swap out to a Blue Sky. You mention it being a simple swap out. Anything I need to know? Just swap the wires and mount it? Thanks in advance!
Joe B.
2008 26ft  grey/white Rear Bath
Family of 5 hitting the open road as much as we can.
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #9 –
I haven't done the swap myself, but folks who have say it's no big deal. I'm sure somebody here can elaborate. In the meantime, you might want to browse the SB3000i manual.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #10 –
The conversion to a Blue Sky 3000i is straight forward, replacing the wires. If switching to lithium, the 3000i’s programming needs to be changed, our Battleborn batteries came with a sheet having the correct settings .

Larry
Courtenay  BC
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #11 –
I found the swap was easily but the wires were short. I also found that the SB3000i was thicker than the Heliotrope that it replaces and the SB3000i did not fit into the wall cavity. So I ordered the conversion plate from AM Solar (to cover the hole) and the mounting box in order to get it wall mounted.
Kevin
Kevin Hannah
Green Valley, AZ
Owner of 2000 26.5 RK, came back to the family
Previously 2014 Newmar Baystar
Previously 2001 LD 26.5 MB
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #12 –
Quote from: kevin hannah  - 
I found the swap was easily but the wires were short. I also found that the SB3000i was thicker than the Heliotrope that it replaces and the SB3000i did not fit into the wall cavity. So I ordered the conversion plate from AM Solar (to cover the hole) and the mounting box in order to get it wall mounted.

The conversion plate is a necessity if converting. The plate provides better cooling ventilation for the 3000i as a side benefit.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #13 –
I would correct one thing I think Dave said, you can’t use 100% of lithium batteries, but they go down to 20% with no harm, much. Enter then 50%.

I watched Will Prowse (all things Solar) who tests components as well as tears apart batteries to see how well they are made.
He used to recommend SOK and their prices rose a lot (he said that happens a lot).

Most of the lithium batteries have protections in them, to shut off if you drop below 20%, if you try to charge or discharge when the battery is too cold or too hot.  There are self heating ones for batteries exposed to cold weather camping.

I got the ampheretime batteries - now litime.com about a year ago.  Will’s testing and critique said they were good, only missing a low temperature shutoff (which my victron battery monitor with temperature probe does).  They
are selling right now for $629 for 200amp.   They have continued to come out with new models including smaller lighter ones.  We
have had no problems in the almost one  year we have had it and recently Will reported that his website followers have said this and similar brands have run for several years with no  problems.

A PS, the solar panels on our 89TK (pit in 1989/90) didn’t work when we got it in 2017.  So they do go out (it has no output from the panels themselves) but newer ones might last longer.
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #14 –

Hi Jane, My older than '99 solar panels declined in output about 2020. Dirt and water leaks intruding because of bad rubber seals. Maybe the silicon would have still been fine, but new panels were much less expensive and higher efficiency. Limited space on the roof for a 'TK, makes higher efficiency a plus.
    The S.O.K. 206 steel case batteries were $1029 in middle '21, and two years later are still selling for $1029.  Amazon.com: SOK Battery LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Rechargeable Lithium Battery 12V...   and
SOK Battery 12V 206Ah LiFePO4 SK12V206 | eBay   . This despite inflation. Of course they could have gone down in price and didn't.  The size was still a perfect match for my LD battery box. So 400=AH, useable to 20% capacity.  I think the built in BMS will prevent usage below that level anyway, so kind of academic.  330AH usable vs about 80 AH for lead acid.    RonB

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #15 –
Quote from: Paul H.  - 
We picked up our 2010 MB from the factory in January 2011.  The AGM Lifeline house batteries are original so they are approximately 13 years old.]

Wow!!!  Ours lasted 6 years (we have a 2013 31 TB we bought new)....the AGMs died quickly while on a boondocking camping trip above Big Bear......Vince had a couple of AGMs at his home that he then drove up to the mountains and installed them for us....why to this day he's one of our family's heroes!!!

I'm pretty sure when it gets close to my 6 years on the set I'm on, I'll be switching to lithium.......
2013 31' Silver Twin Bed
Semi-retired 6/21....
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #16 –
"Vince had a couple of AGMs at his home that he then drove up to the mountains..."

Now that's what I call above and beyond CUSTOMER SERVICE!
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
"Vince had a couple of AGMs at his home that he then drove up to the mountains..."

Now that's what I call above and beyond CUSTOMER SERVICE!

100%....and why he was sent a damn nice bottle of red!!!!  LOL
2013 31' Silver Twin Bed
Semi-retired 6/21....
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #18 –
As a follow-up to my original post in this thread, we had our LD into AM Solar earlier this week.  They installed two new Lifeline AGM house batteries and a Victron Energy SmartShunt IP65 battery monitor.  The technician installed the Victron in the battery box.  We read the battery status on our phones.  The technician saw no reason to replace the factory installed HPV-22B charge controller.  He said that he had never seen an HPV-22B fail.  The technician also checked the status of the 13 year old original equipment AGM batteries and confirmed they were still good so maybe they would have lasted a few more years.  Our appointment was at 9 am and we were out by noon.  Total cost was ~$1500.
Paul
2010 MB (2011-present)                                                                                        
1994 Multiplan (1997-2010)
Re: Question on Possible Electrical Upgrades to 2010 MB
Reply #19 –
Just so you know, the Heliotrope is an AMSolar product, discontinued, so his endorsement of it should be taken with a grain of salt. Its single-stage control is behind the curve compared to modern competitors. If you upgrade to lithium, add more solar, upgrade the converter,etc - I would get something better.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit