Generator Refuses to Start April 26, 2023, 02:33:24 pm It was running fine on the monthly exercise. And then it didn'tI would really like to avoid an overnight trip to the Cummins dealer. So I am again asking for help.I posted about this last month and got several suggestions. Alas, all missed the part that the generator was pumping fuel. I can disconnect the fuel line from the carburetor, hold down the prime switch and it will pump gas as long as I hold the switch down. I would say this eliminates the hose having air leaks and also the fuel pump as a culprits.Observations:When priming the light stays on forever. It should go out after a few seconds indicating it's primed. Sensor to the control board?It will start if I use starting fluid and stay running as long I inject starting fluid.When it stops after using starting fluid, it WAS showing a code. I misread it and now it does not show a code.Any ideas? Carb? Control board? Both were replaced a few years back.
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #1 – April 26, 2023, 02:59:53 pm If it runs with starting fluid and does not without it then it has to be fuel? My prime light stays on as long as the prime button is pushed.Need to check if fuel is pumped when start button is pushed? Check for power to pump when start button is pushed? 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #2 – April 26, 2023, 05:29:36 pm Hey Don,First thing I would do is pull the sparkplug to see how it looks. I realize it runs on starting fluid but I would check the plug or install a new one. Then I would flex the throttle linkage to see if it is stuck. Also check to see that the choke plate is not stuck closed. Good luck with this. I too hate the visit to the Cummins doctor.Steve K 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #3 – April 26, 2023, 06:07:51 pm There is an oil sensor that will shut off the engine if it thinks (actual or in error) that the generator is short on oil.I find that the Onan manual has a decent troubleshooting guide. It's been helpful to me in the past. Rich 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #4 – April 26, 2023, 06:20:45 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - April 26, 2023, 02:33:24 pmI would say this eliminates the hose having air leaks and also the fuel pump as a culprits.If it were me, I would run the generator off a small jar of fuel for a while to see if I could replicate the issue. It is possible to pump fuel with a air leak somewhere along the path. This happened to me when some mice chewed a nice hole in the plastic fuel hose. If you can get it running off of a local fuel source, you can take that opportunity to run some carb cleaner (sea foam or whatever) through the system. Rich 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #5 – April 26, 2023, 07:30:23 pm If Carb.. Needle as seat stuck not allowing the pumped fuel in? 3 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #6 – April 26, 2023, 10:37:14 pm Do these generators have a fuel cut off solenoid on the bottom of the float bowl. If so, they do stick closed on occasion or your just out right flooded. New plug? 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #7 – April 27, 2023, 05:33:10 pm Thanks for all the ideas. I will run them down as soon as the driveway dries out. I should have mentioned it's MicroQuiet 4000. I just went out and removed what I take to be the drain for bowl. Not a drop came out. See picture, I took the silver screw out. Is that the bowl drain?So while fuel is being presented to the carb, it appears none is getting in.Seems to me that I once knew to drain the bowl for storage. SO while I was cranking it once a month, over the long period it's been in the driveway it must have gotten junked up.This YouTube video is quite helpful. Thanks RamonDon, I think you have the 4k unit with the plastic green case around it? Oh,see you posted that now. I have more familiarity with the older nonmicroquiets but they should all work the same though you have codes. Toobad you can't get that code again. The fact that it runs on starting fluidmeans it not getting fuel. Based on your posts, sounds like you haveenough access with the gen door off. If there is a drain screw on thefloat bowl, bottom of the carb, you can drain it out, leave the port open(does it have a hose connected, or can you connect one to catch fuel). With the drain screw open you can run the prime button and see if the fuelcome out . If the needle attached to the float is stuck closed, fuel willnot fill the bowl and drain out. Here is a video of how it works... [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ow9hwutC8A) about the first 3minutes. you probably have a donut float instead of the barrel. And here is the actual unit... [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlZTkBO5M8) says there is a shutoff valve and gets stuckso a little more involved that a regular carb float bowl. Says there is adrain screw. If you open it an nothing comes out.. then might be thestuck seat issue. He says the float bowl seal can leak after you open itand he does not say if you can get just the seal. There is a chance the fuel shutoff valve is not being sent the signal toopen. I would think upon cranking, this would get some DC voltage that youcould measure to see if it gets that. Measure while disconnected. Isthere a start switch at the gen? Might need a second person. Actually Isee it in the video now. Oh wow, he just said not oil filter on these? My early 90s 4k had a filter. Hope this helps, Ramon 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #8 – April 28, 2023, 08:06:30 am Have you replaced the fuel filter?
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #9 – April 28, 2023, 09:32:40 am A few years back, Ross. If it were clogged it would not pump gas. I am more and more thinking it's the carb. Which has already been replaced once.
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #10 – April 29, 2023, 04:24:41 pm TodayReview, file is pumped out of the hose. Enough drops of fuel get into the carb to start it. It starts quickly and runs for 2-3 seconds. If the carb drain is the silver screw in the photo above, no fuel comes out of it while being primed or when started. If I touch the drain with my finger it is ever so slightly moist. Please confirm that this is the bowl drain.If the solenoid is the thing in the picture above that is below the silver screw, I read it getting 8v when cranked. Removing would be a PIA, starting with buying whatever size open end wrench that is one or sizes larger than 9/16. And of course it could be metric. Access to it is limited.What is the function of the solenoid?How does one check for the choke plate being stuck? What I would call butterfly valves on the top of the carb move freely by hand and go back and forth when the engine starts like they are possessed.I checked and cleaned the spark plug. It is back to throwing a code. Three blinks when it stops. Pressing the Stop button gives three more blinks. A 3-3 code is NOT in the manual. However on the generator is a label that states a 3 code (not 3-3, but it that my be shorthand) indicates Service Required.Larry Wade wrote the other day that the fuel supply line was hard in the middle. They must have been out of steel tubing the day this one was built as it's rubber from the generator back to at least the leaf springs. I can not see after that. Need a lift. If only I lived close to Mike C.
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #11 – April 29, 2023, 05:08:04 pm Don the silver screw is the float bowl drain and the fuel cutoff solenoid is directly below the drain screw. Those fuel cutoff solenoids do stick as well as the float, That fuel solenoid has to energize to allow fuel in the float bowl. Like it or not, I bet the carb is going to have to come off if there is fuel to the carb inlet. I think there is a fuel flow spec somewhere. Free flowing out of the fuel line with the fuel pump running ( pump prime), you should get some significant gasoline.Jon
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #12 – April 30, 2023, 02:06:03 pm Quote from: JonS - April 29, 2023, 05:08:04 pmDon the silver screw is the float bowl drain and the fuel cutoff solenoid is directly below the drain screw. Those fuel cutoff solenoids do stick as well as the float, That fuel solenoid has to energize to allow fuel in the float bowl. Like it or not, I bet the carb is going to have to come off if there is fuel to the carb inlet. I think there is a fuel flow spec somewhere. Free flowing out of the fuel line with the fuel pump running ( pump prime), you should get some significant gasoline.JonIt took me awhile to figure out who JONS was. Hello Mr S,Thanks for the confirmation.Yes, it pumps significant fuel out of the line.The solenoid gets 8V. Not sure how much it needs. Since there is no fuel in the bowl, the solenoid might well be the problem.I think I have enough info now to see if a local mechanic could do it.ORI could try replacing the solenoid myself.If that is not a cure then it has to be the carb.ThanksIt's a delightful day here in Montgomery. 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #13 – May 01, 2023, 02:35:57 am Don,Another good video, addressing the Solenoid. Though he takes the bowl off and the last RV tech said these tend to leak after you separate them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTekK7p7un8He's getting 13+ volts at the solenoid but when priming, not cranking. 8 volts does not sound like enough even when cranking.Ramon 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #14 – May 01, 2023, 09:58:56 am Really good video. Thanks. I subscribed to this guy.jor
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #15 – May 01, 2023, 01:04:17 pm Quote from: mrfixit454 - May 01, 2023, 02:35:57 amDon,He's getting 13+ volts at the solenoid but when priming, not cranking. 8 volts does not sound like enough even when cranking.RamonThis is great! Showed how to remove the solenoid simply by removing some things that are in the way. I will try this at first opportunity.Many thanks, RamonI will put these videos in The Companion
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #16 – May 01, 2023, 01:54:29 pm Hi Ramon, Thanks for that video. It was clear and concise. The photography was well lit, not obscured. Clear, not out of focus on the closeups, and complete. He included a lot of information, and cautions at appropriate times. The explanation of the crush washers was the first I've ever actually seen. He "Knows his stuff". It makes me want to put a shut off valve in my old Emerald. I wish he had detailed which valve he used. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #17 – May 01, 2023, 07:36:34 pm Your welcome gentlemen. I thought he did a good job too. I have never smoothend out the crush rings either.
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #18 – May 01, 2023, 07:40:27 pm Thanks to Ramon for the video referral and to the tech who explained how to service the solenoid I was able to get it out and cleaned.A before picture showing all the crud. I hope to put it back together tomorrow and cross my fingers it will run.PS, Onan charging $300 for such a simple carb is outrageous. They beat Apple for being greedy. 1 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #19 – May 02, 2023, 11:42:13 am Quote from: Don Malpas - May 01, 2023, 07:40:27 pmThanks to Ramon for the video referral and to the tech who explained how to service the solenoid I was able to get it out and cleaned.A before picture showing all the crud. I hope to put it back together tomorrow and cross my fingers it will run.This makes me consider opening up our 20-year-old Onan's carburetor to clean things out. The generator has never been touched except for oil changes and to check the spark plug and air cleaner.The fuel cutoff valve is a good idea but folks should still run their generators monthly to keep the armature windings dry and the oil free of moisture. Run regularly, the carburetor should not gum up from evaporated gasoline.The fuel cutoff valve is good for those who store their RV over the winter for several months.Adding a switch to disconnect the fuel solenoid is another way of emptying the float bowl.Larry
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #20 – May 02, 2023, 12:29:52 pm Quote from: Larry W - May 02, 2023, 11:42:13 amThe fuel cutoff valve is good for those who store their RV over the winter for several months.Adding a switch to disconnect the fuel solenoid is another way of emptying the float bowl.Ah, use either of the above solutions, then run the generator until the bowl is empty. Gotcha.Need to shop for a fuel cutoff valve.
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #21 – May 02, 2023, 05:57:56 pm I got it back together. It fired up. I almost did a happy dance. It ran for three minutes and died.Now it's back to starting, running for a few seconds and dying.I think my next thing to do will be to attach a bit of C4 to it.A man must know his limitations. 3 Likes
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #22 – May 03, 2023, 01:59:41 am Quote from: Don Malpas - May 02, 2023, 05:57:56 pmI got it back together. It fired up. I almost did a happy dance. It ran for three minutes and died.Now it's back to starting, running for a few seconds and dying.I think my next thing to do will be to attach a bit of C4 to it.A man must know his limitations.Don,Sounds like more junk it getting into the main jet. Might want to check it out again. Is there a filter somewhere on the rubber line that goes further back? Or maybe the line is deteriorating inside? Is it still soft?
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #23 – May 03, 2023, 02:01:13 am Quote from: Larry W - May 02, 2023, 11:42:13 amThis makes me consider opening up our 20-year-old Onan's carburetor to clean things out. The generator has never been touched except for oil changes and to check the spark plug and air cleaner.Larry, that's a good run for 20 years. You have taken good care of yours and it shows with this timeline.
Re: Generator Refuses to Start Reply #24 – May 03, 2023, 12:16:02 pm Quote from: mrfixit454 - May 03, 2023, 02:01:13 amLarry, that's a good run for 20 years. You have taken good care of yours and it shows with this timeline.With the exception of a rotted fuel line that caused the generator to run for short periods before stalling. It has been trouble-free with only normal maintenance required including monthly generator runs. With the additional solar and lithium batteries, the monthly runs have become more important since the generator is not used much anymore while traveling. It is only used when A/C is needed or in a rare situation to charge the coach battery, which has not happened yet. It is still a good thing to have, power failures do occur at home and it's good to have a way to power the few things that need it, keeping the refrigerator happy is the primary use.Larry
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