E450 wont start March 23, 2023, 04:51:43 pm My 2002 MB with 49,000 miles turns over fine. The battery seems strong, but the motor will not start. It is full of fuel. Started fine a couple of weeks ago. A mechanic put his ear to the fuel tank while we turned it over and he said he could not hear the fuel pump. i got to think it is something else. Any thoughts. Replacing the fuel pump is a relatively big job.Thank you,Matt 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #1 – March 23, 2023, 05:47:34 pm Quote from: Matt Jones - March 23, 2023, 04:51:43 pmA mechanic put his ear to the fuel tank while we turned it over and he said he could not hear the fuel pump. i got to think it is something else. Any thoughts. Replacing the fuel pump is a relatively big job.Fuel pump failures are common. I wouldn't rule it out. Many of us have replaced the fuel pump on early 2000 rigs. If you replace the fuel pump (after proper diagnosis), have the short section of fuel hose feeding the generator fuel line replaced as well. It commonly cracks and causes generator fuel supply issues. Search the forum and you should find plenty on fuel pump replacement.Rich 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #2 – March 23, 2023, 06:37:39 pm Six Signs of a Failing Fuel Pump | HEART Certified Auto Care.Have your service facility do a 'pressure test' and a 'volume test'. (Presuming they have the proper tools.)
Re: E450 wont start Reply #3 – March 23, 2023, 08:04:58 pm Quote from: rich - March 23, 2023, 05:47:34 pmIf you replace the fuel pump (after proper diagnosis), have the short section of fuel hose feeding the generator fuel line replaced as well. It commonly cracks and causes generator fuel supply issues. RichI don't think replacing the generator fuel line at the same time as the fuel pump can be over stressed. Previous owners of our 2004 replaced the fuel pump, but not the line. 4 years later I had to have the line replaced for $400 to drop the tank. The hose replaced was less than 30 bucks.Steve 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #4 – March 23, 2023, 08:21:46 pm Quote from: Matt Jones - March 23, 2023, 04:51:43 pm A mechanic put his ear to the fuel tank while we turned it over and he said he could not hear the fuel pump. i got to think it is something else. Fuel pump failures are common on older LDs.If your mechanic doesn't have a fuel pressure tester, find a better mechanic.It's a simple test to see if the pump is operational with a gauge in knowledgeable hands.https://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-58760.htmlWhen the ignition key is turned to the run position, the pump should run for two seconds or so, then stop unless the engine starts.A failing pump or bad pressure regulator may be temporarily overcome by repeatedly turning the ignition on for two seconds and then off, allowing enough pressure to build to start the engine.Larry 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #5 – March 23, 2023, 08:34:12 pm Matt didn't mention any impacts that could have caused the Ford fuel cutoff switch to "trip," but would the symptoms be similar? Jason 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #6 – March 24, 2023, 12:55:22 am Yes, Jason caught that. If some other car clipped you while in storage, it could have upset the impact sensor and shut off the fuel pump. The first thing to check is that switch. That is quick and free to reset. You should know where it is anyway, even if it isn't the problem. RonB 2 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #7 – March 24, 2023, 05:13:37 am Like me, Matt doesn't want to bite the bullet and replace the fuel pump. It's gotta be something else. I'm sure of the same thing on my 2001 MB, it's gotta be something else. And I filled the tank before putting the LD away. That's another reason why it can't be the fuel pump, the damn fuel tank is FULL.Matt, when you figure out what the something else is let me know so I can blame that on why my LD won't start. I willing to blame anybody and anything on my failure to start.Woe is me.
Re: E450 wont start Reply #8 – March 24, 2023, 01:21:53 pm Go ahead and check the impact switch, it can't hurt but I have not seen this happen to undamaged vehicles.In normal operations, our LDs and cars are subjected to big impacts all the time just driving through potholes.Engines need two things to run...fuel and ignition. The basics can be tested with inexpensive tools.The pump can be tested with a pressure gauge, as listed previously and the ignition tested with a wireless spark detector.Calterm 66331 Tru-Spark Ignition Firing LED Indicator, Adjustable Sensitivity...The spark detector needs to touch one of the ignition coils to work and adjust the sensitivity until the detector flashes.If a spark is not detected, pursue this path.I'm betting the pump is failing or has done so, it is a common failure.Larry 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: E450 wont start Reply #9 – March 24, 2023, 01:48:07 pm A lot of good advice! Except for the the broken fuel pump part. If it is the fuel pump how do you deal with 55 gal. of fuel.Much Thanks,Matt
Re: E450 wont start Reply #10 – March 24, 2023, 03:11:03 pm Quote from: Matt Jones - March 24, 2023, 01:48:07 pmA lot of good advice! Except for the the broken fuel pump part. If it is the fuel pump how do you deal with 55 gal. of fuel.The tank must be drained before dropping the tank to change the fuel pump. It is much too heavy, unstable and dangerous to drop when filled with fuel. It is a challenge to find a shop capable of doing this job.Larry
Re: E450 wont start Reply #11 – March 24, 2023, 03:30:00 pm Would connecting an OBD II provide any insight?
Re: E450 wont start Reply #12 – March 24, 2023, 05:40:53 pm Quote from: Mattb - March 24, 2023, 03:30:00 pmWould connecting an OBD II provide any insight?A 2002's OBDI system does not monitor the fuel pump or the fuel pressure.Testing isn't difficult and would provide useful information instead of speculation. Larry
Re: E450 wont start Reply #13 – March 25, 2023, 04:48:30 am Quote from: Larry W - March 24, 2023, 03:11:03 pmThe tank must be drained before dropping the tank to change the fuel pump. It is much too heavy, unstable and dangerous to drop when filled with fuel. It is a challenge to find a shop capable of doing this job.LarryI know . . . I'll let it drain into the storm drain. Out of sight, out of mind. What a terrific idea. There might be some slight disagreement with some of the more earth friendly people on this platform. But what the hell they don't know where I live. When the neighborhood drain system catches on fire, someone might figure out where I live. It might even make the national news. BULLETIN "A fire 3 miles long is burning under the streets of San Diego." I'll move in with my daughter until things blow over.On a more realistic note, I was thinking of pumping the gas into my car and my daughter's cars. Or I can post a sign that says FREE GAS. I was thinking of one of those drill driven pumps, but my son in law said don't those have a spark inside them??? Damn kids always coming up with ideas that gum up the works. Well a siphon pump will have to do and since I'm on an incline, with the car behind the motor home, a lower exit point "might" be possible. I won't know until I try it. Somehow I need to get rid of 55 gallons of gas. I'll put it in my car first to prove to my son in law that the gas is still ok. I put a stabilizer in the gas awhile ago. It's just 4 year old gas. Damn. Do you know how much it costs for a 5 gallon gas can that I can take to the hazardous drop-off station. About $20. 11 cans times $20 is only $220. 11 cans takes up a lot of room in the back of my car. I still think the storm drain is the best way.Woe is me.Nobody knows the trouble I've seenNobody knows my sorrowNobody knows the trouble I've seenGlory, Hallelujah
Re: E450 wont start Reply #14 – March 25, 2023, 09:51:10 am Holy smokes, at first I thought you were serious about draining into the sewer. But now I think it’s was just in jest. I hope so😁On a side note, what’s the best way to drain the gas? I would want to stick a hose down the inlet to siphon or pump it out. But I’m assuming anti siphoning measures built into the tank make that problematic.
Re: E450 wont start Reply #15 – March 25, 2023, 12:14:50 pm Quote from: 73gitane - March 25, 2023, 09:51:10 amHoly smokes, at first I thought you were serious about draining into the sewer. But now I think it’s was just in jest. I hope so😁On a side note, what’s the best way to drain the gas? I would want to stick a hose down the inlet to siphon or pump it out. But I’m assuming anti-siphoning measures built into the tank make that problematic. Bob had better be kidding, suggesting dangerous solutions will not be tolerated, we do not want anyone getting hurt or killed by doing something they read here.Some E450 gas tanks have a drain plug, our 2003 does.Siphoning is difficult or impossible due to the anti-siphon flap in the gas tank's inlet hose.If the generator's fuel line is still intact, a small 12-volt, low-pressure fuel pump could be used to empty the tank.Larry
Re: E450 wont start Reply #16 – March 25, 2023, 01:12:17 pm Hi Matt, and Bob; A 5 gallon fuel 'can' isn't that expensive, and a 1 gallon can be used. (less expensive) Pull the fuel line off of the generator, and use that to siphon gas into the 'can'. If you have other vehicles, you can transfer it into them. Most other vehicles can handle regular, even if they are rated for premium. For Bob with 4 year old gas, better hope that stabilizer is working. Limit it to just a few gallons at a time. Be careful with it. No open flames. Don't spill it, etc. That will remove gas down to the 1/4 tank level. Before all of that, check voltage to the pump. At the impact switch is a good place. Check the fuel pump fuse, under the hood, driver side, green 30A fuse. The Ford Owners manual will show which one it is. There are several identical relays in that box also. They just plug in. Swap the fuel pump relay with another one. They are tough to remove, but you can wiggle them around. Be on the lookout for rodent damaged wires. If you can, trace the wiring harness going to the fuel pump. Look for damage to that. In so. Cal and San Diego in particular, the rain has encouraged plants to grow, and the rats and mice have been a particularly bad problem, just the last year. As many do, repair facilities will take care of it for a large fee. And Matt, not being able to hear the fuel pump, doesn't tell you much, unless you can guarantee proper power is getting to the pump first. RonB
Re: E450 wont start Reply #17 – March 25, 2023, 01:16:32 pm Our E450 98~MB has a drain plug which made it easier. Otherwise an electric fuel pump is a smart way to go. Shops that work on fuel tanks should have the capacity to handle 55 gallon fuel drain, then when finished the fuel can be returned to the tank. On our previous SOB, a 1984 itaska, we had a strike which caused a crack in the bottom of the tank. After the strike fuel was weeping out slightly. We repaired the tank a with Permatex like putty (snake oil) which was recommended and was done with the fuel in the tank. It worked for a while till it did not. Later we were in California in Sonoma area when we needed to repair the tank and found three shops that would drain the fuel and weld the tank, this was back in 2010. Karen~Liam 98 ~ MB NinA 2 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #18 – March 25, 2023, 07:07:00 pm Our 2002 MB also had a drain plug at the bottom of the fuel tank. It made it easier when I went to fix the generator fuel line and preemptively replace the in-tank fuel pump.Art
Re: E450 wont start Reply #19 – March 25, 2023, 07:26:30 pm Quote from: rbkarrow - March 25, 2023, 04:48:30 amI know . . . I'll let it drain into the storm drain. Out of sight, out of mind. What a terrific idea. There might be some slight disagreement with some of the more earth friendly people on this platform. But what the hell they don't know where I live. When the neighborhood drain system catches on fire, someone might figure out where I live. It might even make the national news. BULLETIN "A fire 3 miles long is burning under the streets of San Diego." I'll move in with my daughter until things blow over.On a more realistic note, I was thinking of pumping the gas into my car and my daughter's cars. Or I can post a sign that says FREE GAS. I was thinking of one of those drill driven pumps, but my son in law said don't those have a spark inside them??? Damn kids always coming up with ideas that gum up the works. Well a siphon pump will have to do and since I'm on an incline, with the car behind the motor home, a lower exit point "might" be possible. I won't know until I try it. Somehow I need to get rid of 55 gallons of gas. I'll put it in my car first to prove to my son in law that the gas is still ok. I put a stabilizer in the gas awhile ago. It's just 4 year old gas. Damn. Do you know how much it costs for a 5 gallon gas can that I can take to the hazardous drop-off station. About $20. 11 cans times $20 is only $220. 11 cans takes up a lot of room in the back of my car. I still think the storm drain is the best way.Woe is me.Nobody knows the trouble I've seenNobody knows my sorrowNobody knows the trouble I've seenGlory, HallelujahI thought my post REAKED of the absurd.I guess tongue in cheek can be an unknown quantity in the first glance. Ridiculousness is a master quantity in my speech when speaking about the absurd. I do love speaking about the absurd, it provokes. 2 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #20 – March 25, 2023, 11:06:07 pm Just another idea. You can remove the inline fuel filter and feed it to a rubber fuel line and after market fuel pump. Provide 12 volts to the pump with no spark and pump it all out.I have one permanently mounted on the frame with all fittings. All I have to do is tap into the fuel pump power line to drive off. I haven’t done that because I didn’t want to compromise the fuel pump power but the wire is there with connectors.I posted pictures of it years ago. I did test that fuel could be pumped through an inoperative fuel pump. 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #21 – March 25, 2023, 11:18:27 pm Picture of fuel pump.The fuel filter is in the background of the second picture. 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #22 – March 26, 2023, 04:13:53 am QuoteIf the generator's fuel line is still intact, a small 12-volt, low-pressure fuel pump could be used to empty the tank.This would only take the level down to 1/4 tank, not to empty, right? 1 Likes
Re: E450 wont start Reply #23 – March 26, 2023, 09:07:27 am Nope, all the way. It uses the engine fuel line.
Re: E450 wont start Reply #24 – March 26, 2023, 09:13:26 am Quote from: Keith S - March 26, 2023, 04:13:53 amThis would only take the level down to 1/4 tank, not to empty, right?Using the generator fuel line would take it to 1/4. Using the fuel filter line would take it all the way to E. When I replaced my fuel pump, I drove the rig until the fuel level was as low as I dared - not wanting to need extra fuel or a tow to get home. I dropped the tank and still siphoned 5 gallons out of the tank. Drain plug, fuel line, generator pickup, drive the rig (if you can). Take your pick. None of it is fun. Rich 3 Likes
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