Searching for SOB March 02, 2023, 07:03:10 am I remember some time ago that there was a discussion about build quality of other brands of RV's especially 5th wheels. My next door neighbor (and nephew) will be in the market for a future 5th wheel to go with his new Ford F450 dually truck. Because there is so much junk out there, is there a way to sort out anything well built from the crowd of manufacturers? He wants something smaller without a slide-out. Any ideas out there? Mike C 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #1 – March 02, 2023, 09:49:23 am Hi Mike. The only suggestion I can offer is the RV Consumer Group. There is a fee for access to the ratings:RV Consumer Group - We Rate RVs
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #2 – March 02, 2023, 01:41:54 pm If they are going to use an F450, then the Escape is probably too small for them.But Escape does build a quality product. The E 5.0 is a tiny 5th. wheel.Fiberglass Travel Trailers - Escape Trailer 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #3 – March 02, 2023, 02:03:06 pm We were seriously considering an Escape (trailer, not 5th wheel) at one time. I became concerned with possible quality degradation when the original owner sold the company a few years back (which frequently happens when a "Mom and Pop" manufacturer sells to a larger company). Not sure how the quality is these days but do your due diligence if considering an Escape. 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #4 – March 02, 2023, 03:11:14 pm I think finding a 5th. wheel without a slide might prove to be hard.Even the smaller ones seem to have them.One of the ways I have considered is going with a horse trailer that has a living quarters up front.I don't need the horse space, but it would be nice to have for my motorcycle and extra storage.You can also go without the 5th. wheel and get a gooseneck, which I like better.Should be able to haul the extra weigh with a dually F450.And they are built to be used in rough conditions.
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #5 – March 02, 2023, 05:01:45 pm "I became concerned with possible quality degradation when the original owner sold the company a few years back"It's a legitimate concern, and checking with the RV Consumer Group and other sources such as user groups is a good idea. RVCG is no Consumer Reports--they don't have the budget to buy and test products--but they do their best to assess RVs, based upon manufacturer specs and surveys of owners... and maybe most important, they are independent and impartial, unlike the various advertising-supported RVing magazines and websites that purport to review RVs, but seldom if ever have a bad word to say.As for Escape RVs, I don't know anything about them, but I will say this: the fiberglass "clamshell" design--a one-piece top half joined at the waist to a one-piece bottom half--means a minimum of seams that can leak, unlike a Lazy Daze or my current Airstream. Yes, there are still penetrations for vents and windows, but the chances of a leak are greatly reduced by such a construction method. 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #6 – March 02, 2023, 08:23:51 pm Quote from: HiLola - March 02, 2023, 09:49:23 amHi Mike. The only suggestion I can offer is the RV Consumer Group. There is a fee for access to the ratings:RV Consumer Group - We Rate RVsUnfortinatually, this group was no longer producing updates and stopped in 2021 (perhaps due to Covid); Connie and JD Gallant, the Founder, retired. 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #7 – March 03, 2023, 12:15:38 am When I was looking for a quality RV, the only class C recommended was the Born Free and Lazy Daze. Born Free is gone and now Lazy Daze is kaput. I wonder what the top Class C is today? A 4 star product or is there a new 5 star I'm unaware of???I originally was going the 5th wheel route as I wanted the BIG LUXURY. But not able to stay in the national parks was a deal killer for me, so I went with the Class C. Glad I did. Look at all the knowledgeable people that you can pick their brains. 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #8 – March 03, 2023, 09:26:02 am Quote from: Wingersky - March 02, 2023, 08:23:51 pmUnfortinatually, this group was no longer producing updates and stopped in 2021 (perhaps due to Covid); Connie and JD Gallant, the Founder, retired.Unfortunately JD died in 2021 which explains the lack of updates. He and Connie were apparently involved in several causes:Port Townsend Marine Science Center presents Stopps award | Sequim Gazette 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #9 – March 03, 2023, 12:20:17 pm "Unfortunately JD died in 2021 which explains the lack of updates."I wasn't aware of that. It is indeed unfortunate that RV buyers no longer have any systematic, impartial source of information on current models. However, it's worth pointing out that RVCG's ratings guides and articles are still available, and are valid for a vast range of models up to and including 2021. So anyone shopping for a used RV can get good information. I'd go so far as to say that even if I were shopping for a current model, I'd want to use the RVCG guides to look at a brand's history to get an idea of its overall quality. If you look at, say, Fleetwood's ratings in past years, it's unlikely that they will suddenly start building top-quality RVs in 2023. 2 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #10 – March 03, 2023, 02:13:18 pm I want to thank everyone that have answered my request on quality of SOB's RV's. This has been very helpful. I was surprised to see some of the pricing of top end 5th wheel units up well into the 6($)-figures. WOW! This really makes me appreciate how fortunate we are to have a Lazy Daze. There is still a lot to see across North America. Our Villa Verde will probably be the last LD we will have if we can use it for the next 10-12 years. By then I will be 90! Then I might start of thinking to slow down a little. :-) 5 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #11 – March 03, 2023, 05:51:20 pm I have friends who have been really happy with the build quality of their Grand Design 5th wheel. It is a 2014 369 Solitude model. I loved the floorplan myself. It does have slides. I'm not sure if any other models come without slides. 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #12 – March 03, 2023, 05:59:08 pm "... the last LD we will have if we can use it for the next 10-12 years."Take heart, Mike, sounds like a piece of cake.My/our 2004 just came home from a short spring break campout with Lazy Bones 2 at the helm! 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #13 – March 03, 2023, 10:18:22 pm Quote from: Jota - March 02, 2023, 03:11:14 pmI think finding a 5th. wheel without a slide might prove to be hard.Even the smaller ones seem to have them.One of the ways I have considered is going with a horse trailer that has a living quarters up front.I don't need the horse space, but it would be nice to have for my motorcycle and extra storage.You can also go without the 5th. wheel and get a gooseneck, which I like better.Should be able to haul the extra weigh with a dually F450.And they are built to be used in rough conditions.I've been tempted by these as well. There are some manufacturers (e.g. Lakota) who will build out the rear section as a "garage" with whatever level of luxury you want back there for your motorized toys. There are also "LQ" stock trailers (i.e., an open space rather than horse stalls) if a bespoke model isn't to your liking. My theory is that these are likely to be solidly built trailers, if they can stand up to the abuse cattle and horses like to dish out. Not to mention being able to negotiate anything from open range to freeways. They're also typically made of steel or aluminum, not plastic composite over a wood frame and topped with a rubber roof. The only issue is that while you'll feel right at home in the rodeo grounds, your average RV park is not going to know what to make of it.
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #14 – March 04, 2023, 08:42:56 am New Horizons has a good rep. Six figures, doubtful they make one wo slides.
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #15 – March 25, 2023, 10:26:55 pm @Mike Coachman Escape has a 5th wheel - Jota gave info on It. It is a smaller one so might not be one your friends want. An interesting idea though. I think that was the only molded fiberglass 5th wheel we saw but I won’t swear that is true. As Andy says Escape is molded fiberglass -advantages to that.But regarding Escape quality…we are in Baja Mexico, think very bumpy roads even paved ones. Up and down bumps as well as bumps that toss you side to side. In a motorhome you feel that and can slow down. You might not notice it in a trailer being towed and many people drive fast (very easy to do in a car or truck or van even when towing, asking for big problems to do that in a wider motorhome).We ran into an escape owner and asked about quality. He had a newer trailer. He was very disappointed, the molded fiberglass part was fine but he said the bumpy roads caused a lot of problems with cabinets etc. He had to / will have to do a lot of work to resecure cabinets etc. The bumpy roads apparently did a lot of damage - his works shook everything off/down.From what I read in a fiberglass trailer forum, securing screws into fiberglass is not simple, try work loose easily so best to secure into a structural member instead. I am not sure how escape secured their screws.On the other hand a Casita owner reported zero problems, everything held together great - As did our LD but we do the speed limit and even slower when conditions call for it. 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #16 – March 25, 2023, 11:53:37 pm We have done extensive research on RVs ( going to look at them and really checking out quality, talking to owners who have one a few years old, and checking out owner groups).We are full time traveling for years to come and we need a 30-32’ motorhome or equivalent sized trailer. Smaller just doesn’t work (living space inside and storage inside and out). We looked at some Super Cs but we need a lower height for NE areas of the US. Class As were never looked at (we prefer a Class C) but that would also be too tall for us.We wanted a good size and layout for us but equally important was build quality and we went back and forth on what we would be willing to give up. We did look at ones as small as 24’ to checkout layout and build quality.We saw a born free and were not impressed by quality of materials used - same lower grade/quality materials we saw in the big companies (Forest River, Thor, etc.). We were surprised, I think their claim to fame was customizing the layout for you, not necessarily build quality. And layout left a lot to be desired - the one we saw had the hanging clothes closets hanging 1.5-2’ over the foot end of each bed (not an uncommon design but one we were not willing to accept).Triple E made a well made motorhome (class C and A) but they stopped making them and focus on large Bs now under the Leisure Van name which is also very well made. Canadian all weather RVs with very good reputation. If we could do smaller (eg a 26’ LD) we would seriously consider a Leisure Van. They have some very interesting and unique features to use space well.We were all excited by Triple E despite the fact it has slides until we saw one - the bed is in a slide with a deeper cabinet over the head which meant too low of height for us (for those that can sleep in the cab over bunk it would be fine).And I don’t know if the slides are that much better, I think they were for when they were built (pre 2017) but not on the scale of today’s class super C slides. This is one to seriously consider.Coach house also makes a very well made motorhome but if you look at the details the storage is maybe half of what you get in a LD of the same length. If I remember right molded fiberglass outside and inside, again worth a looking at. We have not seen one in person despite the company trying hard to connect us with someone, they are a Florida company so more are in the eastern states.When looking at the class Bs, what we have been told by owners the Sprinter Vans are popular enough now (one guy said Amazon owns tons), that repair places are easy to find but I bet that is in big cities only, not rural camping areas. Just to get the Mercedes engine is another 100,000 in the price tag. And maintenance, a guy had a newer one and said a main maintenance was so expensive Mercedes split it across 2 years. $22,000 for the first year. He said the only reason he had it done was to keep his Warranty (otherwise he would have done it himself/had a buddy do it).The b vans made with the Ford transit have a very small towing capacity - something like 2000 lbs or maybe 2500 lbs. Much less than the sprinter van. While a class B more narrow motorhome is wonderful for Baja Mexico, for us there are too many limitations.Oh, a last very unusual motorhome to look at and this was shocking to us but made it on our list of maybes…Thur makes a no slide class C, mostly for Cruise America. I believe these are better quality because Cruise America rents then out for 1-4 years before selling them with over 100,000 miles on them (Cruise America does some fixing up before selling then like redoing fabric material). They have all sizes from maybe 19’ to 31’ without slides. They sell the same exact model under the Fourwinds brand and the Chateau brand (I think that is the other brand). I don’t know details (eg if both brands are made on the same line so same quality or if both brands are made for Cruise America). Owners love these even if they have a slide out or two, not the horror stories we have heard from many other brands. We have looked at them and storage space is to die for, layouts are decent, material quality is ok but not outstanding (better than many other big companies with the same exact layout). We only have talked to one owner, bought his a couple years old (second wonder), has owned a few years and used a lot (snowbird) and he has had no problems at all.That is our short list for larger SOB motorhomes (25’ and longer). I hope it gives others motorhomes to check outWe did look at every manufacturer we could find that made a 28-34’ motorhome. We focused on no-slides but looked at some with slides. We rejected ones you could not cook in or had difficulties getting into the bathroom if slides were not out.We heard plenty of horror stories from owners of major RV brands that had bought brand new a few years earlier. We viewed some that had awful layouts (two slide outs to make it spacious but then huge overstuffed dinettes and couch so the area felt small and with slides closed you could not squeeze between them).Some had horrible build designs (10’ wall supported with framing at the ends but nothing to support the two veneer walls between that 10’).A Tiffin (owned by Thur now) class B Mercedes that sold for around $250,000 used junky fabricated cabinetry doors that already felt like they would not last more than a couple years, the only concession to the Tiffin name seemed to be a large but trite painting that felt very out of place (needed a larger area and didn’t add any class to the RV at all), which was on the wall where the Murphy bed was pulled out of. We were sad to see how low the Tiffin brand had fallen.There is a lot of poor build quality out there but there is some good quality also, even in class C motorhomes. 5 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #17 – March 26, 2023, 07:28:01 am Thank you Jane & Scott and others here for your well researched response. Our friends realize it may be some time before they buy a 5th wheel RV as some home projects are taking more time & $$$$$ to complete. They are grateful for the direction given for future research. They are still waiting for the delivery of a new Ford F450 diesel dually PU they ordered last year. They already have a 30' gooseneck heavy equipment trailer the truck will also be used for. They are patient people.
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #18 – March 26, 2023, 12:14:23 pm My brother has owned an Escape 17' for over six years and towed it on many iffy roads without problems, it still looks newTaking any trailer down extremely bad roads is asking for trouble.The Factory did recall the trailer for a frame upgrade. They provided a kit of steel reinforcements for the hitch area and offered to pay a local welding shop to install them. My brother being a pro DIYer, welded the kit himself. It runs in the family.Larry
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #19 – March 26, 2023, 03:01:02 pm "My brother being a pro DIYer, welded the kit himself."LarryI've often wondered where you get all your ideas!
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #20 – March 26, 2023, 03:27:34 pm Quote from: Jane and Scott - March 25, 2023, 11:53:37 pmWe looked at some Super Cs but we need a lower height for NE areas of the US.What's the problem? Overpasses? Tree limbs?Thanks for a really useful summary.
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #21 – April 04, 2023, 12:20:50 pm @latljus I posted a question in this group some time ago (but in the last 15 month) asking about roads in NE US. I had heard from other forums about difficulties with larger RVs especially in some cities or rural.The answer back from the LDers in that area is that narrow roads are not as much of a problem (some exceptions, outside this forum I read don’t go into Boston, another person said they always park their RV at the edge of town and then use their tow car to explore and make sure their RV would be ok in the town.But height is an issue. Going under overpasses 11’6” height is not uncommon - fine for many RVs but not the tall ones like class A, Super Cs, or 5th wheels. More often trees are not trimmed up high. And I would add - with my limited handful of weeks over a few visits - that trees next to the road (hanging over it) are common. So low tree limbs are the big issue.Of course there are many tall vehicles including semis in the NE but they stick to the main/big roads like highways. We don’t want that restriction.
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #22 – April 04, 2023, 01:36:51 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - March 26, 2023, 03:01:02 pm"My brother being a pro DIYer, welded the kit himself."LarryI've often wondered where you get all your ideas! It runs in the family. We were raised around a father and uncles that would attempt and do almost anything dealing with mechanics, electrical, and all types of construction. Our lessons started at an early age.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Searching for SOB Reply #23 – May 01, 2023, 11:21:45 pm @Mike Coachman I just saw a post asking asking about this inFacebook group - full time RV living Redirecting...Post asked .. What RV makes are known for better quality and construction …Once he clarified he was looking for 5th wheel (or bumper pull) one person answered: fifth wheel: DRV Mobile Suites, Luxe, Montana, VanLeigh Beacon, Cedar Creek.To follow the conversation use the link above.FYI at least half the people are always stationary and the other half travel full time.
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