AGM Battery Replacement January 12, 2023, 12:38:03 pm The 2 AGM's in our 2010 MB are approaching 6 years old and need replacement. I'm considering an upgrade to LiFePO4's but would appreciate any comments before doing so. The two of us normally spend a few weeks out on the road and typically do not use hook ups. The rig is fitted with 2 solar panels and an HPV-22B controller.Wondering how complicated/expensive this could be as opposed to a straight forward replacement of the AGM's which we have been very happy with.Thanks in advance, cheers!Howard 1 Likes
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #1 – January 12, 2023, 02:15:09 pm Howard Welcome to the Forum.Please add your rig's age and floor plan to your profile for better responses.Before switching to lithium batteries, you will need to determine if the solar controller and converter are compatible with the batteries.Our LD has two 100-amp Battleborn lithium batteries, they have been sufficient for most of boondocking, the exception being either cloudy, rainy, or camped in deep shade.Battleborn's customer service is excellent, you can talk with real people who know what components are compatible.The Most Powerful and Reliable Lithium Batteries | Battle Born Batteries |I'm fairly sure that the solar controller will need to be replaced. Blue Sky's 3000i, the controller used for years by LD, will work fine and should fit in the Factory position. Amazon.com : Blue Sky Energy SB3000i Solar Boost 30A MPPT Charge Controller...I assume with the older style solar controller the Factory converter is an old model that probably isn't compatible either.Best Converter is a good source of information and lithium compatible converter.BestConverter - Converters, Inverters, Electrical Supplies, ElectronicsIf your rig has a diode battery isolator, it will work too but will provide a low level of charging compared to adding a DC to DCcharger.12V 40A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger | in-vehicle dual battery chargers |...If you have more questions, several of us can help with answers.Larry 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #2 – January 12, 2023, 02:39:04 pm "The 2 AGM's in our 2010 MB are approaching 6 years old and need replacement. I'm considering an upgrade to LiFePO4's but would appreciate any comments before doing so.The two of us normally spend a few weeks out on the road and typically do not use hook ups. The rig is fitted with 2 solar panels and an HPV-22B controller.Wondering how complicated/expensive this could be as opposed to a straight forward replacement of the AGM's which we have been very happy with." ********************************In our Lazy Daze RB, we had 400-watts of solar and 4 AGM's, and were pretty satisfied with the utility of the system.Faced with a similar, but with a far less robust built-in system (80 Ahr AGM) in a much smaller rig, I am strongly considering one of the new lithium "solar generators", as they as amusingly labeled. I have been testing a smallish (500-Wh) unit, but it will handle electrical units of only 300-watts or less. It does a good, if limited, job at the tasks I have thrown at it.The size and weight of a larger unit could be something of a problem, but I'm always up for an experiment.Side note: An inexpensive, tiny Black and Decker rice cooker at a 300-watt draw is proving to be exceptionally versatile. Homebase experiments have been very informative, and should translate flawlessly (I hope!) to the RV lifestyle. This works very well indeed if one doesn't mind eating caveman style out of the smallish pot that comes with the unit. If you plate the food properly, garnishing attractively, one round will feed two diners. Virtual hugs, Judie
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #3 – January 12, 2023, 03:51:51 pm Howard, welcome to the group! In recent years, there have been many discussions here of the pros and cons of LiFePO4 batteries compared with AGMs, so you might want to search the threads for relevant posts. As LiFePO4 prices have come down, the trend of opinion is more and more in favor of that type, as the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Having used both types, I would not go back to AGMs.What lithium batteries offer you are 1) much lighter weight, 2) more usable capacity for a given amp-hour rating, 3) much faster charging (so you need fewer generator hours or sunlight hours to reach 100%), and 4) the ability to handle heavier loads without losing capacity. Their main drawback in your case would be the need to upgrade your charging equipment. In that regard, Larry's recommendations are all good ones.If your budget permits, this is a good time to make the switch. 1 Likes
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #4 – January 12, 2023, 04:55:26 pm Jumping on this thread, as someone whose factory AGM batteries are getting a bit "long in the tooth," I've been thinking about their inevitable replacement. I only have one 100? watt factory solar panel and no desire to spend large quantities of money to add more at this time. Would it be worth replacing the two AGM's with lithium if not adding more solar panels or should I stick with AGM? I already have the Blue Sky 3000i charge-controller.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #5 – January 12, 2023, 05:36:28 pm "I only have one 100? watt factory solar panel ..."I currently am running three solar panels in conjunction with AGM batteries. Can't have too much solar. This arrangement has served me well now for several years.Perhaps one day Lazy Bones 2 will want to go the Lithium route but that will be her decision to make.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #6 – January 12, 2023, 06:01:28 pm Quote from: HiLola - January 12, 2023, 04:55:26 pmJumping on this thread, as someone whose factory AGM batteries are getting a bit "long in the tooth," I've been thinking about their inevitable replacement. I only have one 100 watt factory solar panel and no desire to spend large quantities of money to add more at this time. Would it be worth replacing the two AGM's with lithium if not adding more solar panels or should I stick with AGM? I already have the Blue Sky 3000i charge controller.It's worth installing lithium with 100 watts of solar. You still get most of the benefits. Additional solar can be added later.If you can install a panel yourself, solar is still getting even cheaper.Amazon.com : Renogy Solar Panel 100 Watt 12 Volt, High-Efficiency Monocrystal...Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #7 – January 12, 2023, 06:06:22 pm Quote from: HiLola - January 12, 2023, 04:55:26 pmI only have one 100? watt factory solar panel and no desire to spend large quantities of money to add more at this time. Would it be worth replacing the two AGM's with lithium if not adding more solar panels or should I stick with AGM? I already have the Blue Sky 3000i charge-controller.Greg, solar panels are the cheapest part of the equation. Upgrading solar would be the best move to make as a start. AGMs were an unfortunate move by LD as maintenance is impossible. If you keep them, I would upgrade the converter, if it is a single-stage charger, to avoid mis-charging the batteries. If not, I would leave the converter circuit breaker switched off most of the time. Have you installed the battery monitor? That is invaluable for keeping track of battery condition.Steve
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #8 – January 12, 2023, 06:17:34 pm Quote from: Judie Ashford - January 12, 2023, 02:39:04 pmFaced with a similar, but with a far less robust built-in system (80 Ahr AGM) in a much smaller rig, I am strongly considering one of the new lithium "solar generators", as they as amusingly labeled. I have been testing a smallish (500-Wh) unit, but it will handle electrical units of only 300-watts or less. It does a good, if limited, job at the tasks I have thrown at it.Judie, something I have become more aware of is the use often in these generators of non-LFP lithium batteries. These are of course more prone to self-ignition, but as concerning is their short lifespan, about a tenth of the LFP batteries. They do have a higher energy density, which means more power in less size and weight, and are used successfully in power tools, phones, etc. Note that some of the more recent models DO use LFP batteries, and the literature is specific. If it mentions lithium batteries, they are likely NOT LFP unless specified LFP or LiFePO4.Steve 1 Likes
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #9 – January 12, 2023, 08:19:14 pm “Have you installed the battery monitor? That is invaluable for keeping track of battery condition.”No, not yet Steve. All my upgrade projects are currently on hold. Hopefully sometime this Spring.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #10 – January 12, 2023, 10:38:56 pm Thank you all for your thoughtful responses and kind welcome to the group. Whoo boy, I have much to research and consider!I will research past posts on this subject and contact suppliers as suggested and get back to you all with the direction I'll go. I'm particularly interested in determining which existing components...solar controller, converter, etc...need replacing to accommodate the new battery system. I will contact Battleborn and discuss my existing set up with them and see where it goes.Dunno, seems like the easiest solution is to just simply replace the AGM's which have been serving us well for the past dozen years but I sure appreciate the advantages of going with LiFe. Like all things in life sometimes the easiest solutions are often times not the best solutions! Now would be the time to do this. I need to get better educated on the subject and I thank you all again for giving me some information to get started.Cheers!
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #11 – January 12, 2023, 10:49:53 pm "If it mentions lithium batteries, they are likely NOT LFP unless specified LFP or LiFePO4."Thanks, Steve. Yes, I am aware of this situation. The LiFePO4 designation is crucial as the ones without it seem to be inferior in every way. The cheaper ones are popular for their price point, but LiFePO4 technology is vital.Here is a sampling at Amazon - with a coupon for $200. off.Amazon.com : BLUETTI Portable Power Station AC200P, 2000Wh LiFePO4 Battery...You would be amazed at what I did today with a 300-watt rice cooker! Virtual hugs, Judie As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #12 – January 13, 2023, 02:03:19 am Anyone wanting build quality on some of the cheaper brands, check out WillProwse YouTube videos, he tears them apart, discusses build quality and tests if they do what they say they do.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #13 – January 13, 2023, 02:18:41 am Judie is definitely directing you to one of the best value portable generators out there. I've been using an AC 200P for about six months now and it has met or exceeded my expectations in both input and output performance. I even use an adaptor to plug it into my shore connection and it easily runs appliance like my microwave(1500 watt) and coffeemaker without problem. Along with multiple USB A/C, 120 volt and 12 volt ports it even has 2 charging rings on top for devices that are capable of induction charging. The warranty period is also 4 years. It is truly the swiss army knife of portable solar generators. (In my opinion anyway:) Happy Trails!Matt
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #14 – January 13, 2023, 05:21:21 am Hi Howard; Well, I don't regret the system I've got now. Mostly finished. I did a gradual conversion over about a year. I started with a new converter. My 1998 vintage Magnetek converter, just was pathetic. I put up with it because I had solar, and a good 20A MPPT controller that I put in, in 2002. (Solar Boost 2000). Your 2010 converter is much better. I changed to a PD 4655 converter that by changing a jumper could work with LiFePO4 batteries when I decided to upgrade. I had my solar panels (I bought used before 1999) start leaking, (bad rubber seals), and the prices of more efficient panels were much lower. I got a used Solar Boost 3000i, 30A from a member here. It fit in the same hole, and could handle 450 Watts on the roof. The Renogy 100w. monocrystalline panels mentioned above by Steve are $15 per panel less expensive and 36 cell, compared to the ones I have, just a year old that are 33 cell! Most importantly I got a BalMar SG-200, and I added the bluetooth gateway. Amazon.com: CDI Electronics SG200 Battery Monitor Kit, 12V-48V : Electronics It measures how much power goes in, and how much comes out. It told me that my wet Lead acid batteries were nearing replacement time with about a 75% efficiency. (four years old) Then Kent told me about the S.O.K. batteries. At 206 AH each, the (not marine version) would fit two in my battery box. Just ! $1029 through Amazon Each. Amazon.com: SOK Battery LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Rechargeable Lithium Battery 12V... Gives me about 5,000 watt hours useable, compared to the Bluetti 2000 WH. I got a 2kw True Sine Wave inverter for about $270 that runs my 1100 Watt microwave, or 1100 watt hair dryer. It is all integrated with the motorhome. It sits in full sunlight in my driveway. So when I sell my motorhome it all goes with it. Amazon.com: Novopal 2000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter 12V DC to... Larry mentioned the 20A Renogy DC/DC power supply. It will charge LIF batteries with the correct profile, and no changes are necessary to the motorhome charging system. Your 2010 should safely run the 40A Renogy. And they can be throttled down to half power if desired. I've got a smaller alternator, and the 60A Renogy. I may use that LC input to decrease the load on the engine alternator if I have the headlights on, and the air conditioner fan/clutch on at the same time. With just one S.O.K battery 206, the newer LiF compatible converter, and the Renogy 20A charger you will have more power available than your AGM's ever had. Two AGM's at 40% discharge 220 AHx.4= 88 AH vs one SOK at 80% discharge 206 x .8= 160AH. It charges faster, and the voltage is more stable until it runs out. (you need a monitor to tell you what your remaining charge is.) RonB 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #15 – January 13, 2023, 08:49:19 am Can Lithium batteries withstand the cold? When not using our LD we store it and nighttime temperature in this part of Texas can reach 10 degrees.
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #16 – January 13, 2023, 09:49:31 am Quote from: Ross and Beverly Taylor - January 13, 2023, 08:49:19 amCan Lithium batteries withstand the cold?Yes, they can be stored and used cold, but charging them below freezing can damage them. To that end there are heated batteries available.Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries in Cold Weather
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #17 – January 13, 2023, 10:19:41 am Quote from: Ross and Beverly Taylor - January 13, 2023, 08:49:19 amCan Lithium batteries withstand the cold? When not using our LD we store it and nighttime temperature in this part of Texas can reach 10 degrees.The hidden danger to LFP batteries when very cold is sources of charging such as solar panels, which work well in the cold. Heating the batteries is fine - if active. When incorporated into the batteries it will be, but external heaters could be turned off. Many batteries now have protection devices in the on-board battery management which will prevent charge or discharge in those extreme conditions, so heating is not needed.Steve
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #18 – January 13, 2023, 10:47:34 am Howard, and Ross,I went through the process you are going through. An important step is to understand the questions to be asked. In addition to reading the numerous threads on this forum mentioned by Andy, I also found that reviewing the websites of better installers, eg; AM Solar, as well as LiPO4 battery manufacturers, eg; Battle Born, to be informative. After reviewing, I called representatives of these companies to gain additional insight and reccomendations.My decision, given my AGMs were replaced under warranty, was to add a Victron battery monitor and change my Parallax converter/charger to a Progressive Dynamics unit. When the AGMs batteries wear out, I will add a DC-DC charger and LiPO4 batteries.Best wishes in your research and decision making.Warren 1 Likes
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #19 – January 13, 2023, 11:53:09 am Speaking of cold batteries, could lithium batteries live in the factory battery compartment where the AGM's now reside? If so, would any modifications need to be made to that compartment, such as sealing it?
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #20 – January 13, 2023, 12:53:47 pm Hi Gregg,Ron B has added a heated pad with his SOK lithium batteries. If storing such batteries in the existing battery bay, you can I insulate the vents in the bay door to help isolate cold weather and add the heater pads around and or below the lithium batteries. The heated pads derive their energy from the lithium batteries themselves and can be turned off if heating is not needed during warmer times. As mentioned previously, lithium batteries can be stored in cold weather as long as they are NOT receiving a charge. I don’t believe drawing lithium batteries down causes an issue for unheated batteries as long as they are not being charged.Mine are inside the rig so no heating is necessary. Kent
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #21 – January 13, 2023, 01:31:18 pm Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - January 13, 2023, 12:53:47 pm I don’t believe drawing lithium batteries down causes an issue for unheated batteries as long as they are not being charged.Mine are inside the rig so no heating is necessary. Discharging has a temp limit as well - much lower one, I believe -4F. Battleborn LFPs protect this issue as well. Inside the rig is fine as long as the battery BMS protects low temps in storage. In SoCal, not an issue, but on the road when leaving the rig for extended periods in frigid weather, I leave the furnace thermostat at 45F.Steve
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #22 – January 13, 2023, 01:35:56 pm Quote from: HiLola - January 13, 2023, 11:53:09 amSpeaking of cold batteries, could lithium batteries live in the factory battery compartment where the AGM's now reside? If so, would any modifications need to be made to that compartment, such as sealing it?Our GC2 format LFPs are in the compartment. I insulated the lid and have 1" thick insulation board with foam tape sealing off the opening inside. I cut several vent 2" holes from the battery box to the rig interior. I removed the original battery slide in our '04.Steve 3 Likes
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #23 – January 13, 2023, 03:05:23 pm In the world of the portable "generators", Anker has a model which will accommodate a 30-amp RV plug.Anker PowerHouse 767 - 2048Wh | 2400W - Anker US Virtual hugs, Judie
Re: AGM Battery Replacement Reply #24 – January 13, 2023, 03:28:48 pm I second Steve's advice: insulate the battery compartment's outer door, and cut vent holes to let the compartment share the climate inside the rig.
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