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Topic: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC (Read 986 times) previous topic - next topic
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Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
A new owner, not yet a member, has a 2019 TK bought used (1000 miles)  in April '20. The previous owner bailed because of Covid job loss)  While camping last week his batteries gave up the ghost and he called me. His SolarBoost 3000 with 200 watts was unable to keep the batteries up and it turns out there is no output from the converter portion. He bought a battery charger to keep the batteries 'up', while we tried to troubleshoot over the phone.
    A mobile RV repair person decided that indeed the converter is the problem  ($150 bill, just 1 mile from RV park) but said he couldn't get parts.  Lazy Daze Todd, said 4 to 8 weeks to get parts in.   Amazon offers about 5 day delivery of a Progressive Dynamics PD4655V power supply unit with charge wizard.      
    All of the fuses are good. Battery voltage is good at the +Batt terminal on the fuse panel.  110VAC is present throughout the coach and the circuit breakers are all on.     One clue, is that the GFCI breaker needed to be reset at the start of all this. I helped him reset this breaker over the phone, and his AC outlets returned operation. The Air conditioning has worked all along. The park pedestal seems good, there is as yet, no surge protection, but he does plan on adding that either internally or at the pedestal.
    Is there any other fuse or relay that would keep the power supply/charger from providing power to the 'house'?    I've heard better reviews of the Progressive Dynamics supply /charger, than for the Parallax charger.   How likely is the PD4655 to cure this situation?        RonB   
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #1 –
Ron... a couple questions to make sure I understand the situation.

His GFCI breaker needed to be reset.... Was that the main breaker (which means the converter/charger would also have not had power during that time?  Or was the GFCI only for the outlets (or some of the outlets)?
I am guessing it was a GFCI for outlets since the Air Conditioner was working before you reset that breaker.

You say there is voltage at the positive Batt terminal on the fuse panel.
Is there voltage at the battery cable that is connected to the power center?  That would tell you that electricity is being sent down that cable, and if so I would start tracing that cable to see if there is something between it and the battery including a loose connection.

If there is no voltage at the battery cable connected to the power center, something in the power center is likely not working right.  I have not mucked with a parallax power center but while installing a new power center I learned that some charger/converters are hardwired to the power center and some are plugged in (e.g. 120v outlet).  Trying to trace wires in the power center might help (Skype becomes very useful for this - saying twist the phone to the right a little .... :D ).
If it is something in the power center, I would try a call to Contact Our Experts – Parallax Power Supply and see if their tech support people can help you.  Many times (but not always) manufacturers are very happy to talk to you about any issues and an engineer or very good support person is worth their weight in gold.  You might get further if you imply you are a RV repair person working on a RV  (you are cause you have repaired a lot, not just your own).
Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #2 –
Has the hidden circuit breaker been checked?

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #3 –
Hi Larry and Jane: There is a connection from the converter to the house circuitry because MikeH was using the television off of battery power before the voltage dropped low enough to kill the inverter.  He bought a battery charger and hooked it up outside to the 110 VAC outlet at his refrigerator  (TK), and charges the battery by clamping on at the outside battery door.  I haven't checked for charging from the engine alternator yet. The batteries do charge off of solar during the day. He was going to Lompoc to buy a DMM at HF that I picked for him. He's never used a meter before. Wish I were there. He's at Buellton. I figure that the 12 volt hidden circuit breaker has to be good to get battery voltage into the house circuits.
    I suspect that the power supply (also the battery charger part) is bad. Maybe a fuse on that board. I'll know more tomorrow if he got the DMM, and I can talk him through checking some voltages.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #4 –
Hi Ron,

So good of you to try and help this new owner. Their problem sounds similar to another 2019 owner's (Dave &Lee) problem that was posted 2 weeks ago. I think the discussions title was "Paralax 8300 mystery"; it is in the technical forum section. They were on their second Paralax unit and were again not able to charge their batteries.

Maybe you could reach out to them to find out if they solved their problem yet?

Pet peeve is how many folks reach out for help and then never post follow up with how the problem was resolved.

I hope you folks find a solution and let the group know the solution.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Steve K.  - 
Hi Ron,

So good of you to try and help this new owner. Their problem sounds similar to another 2019 owner's (Dave &Lee) problem that was posted 2 weeks ago. I think the discussions title was "Paralax 8300 mystery"; it is in the technical forum section. They were on their second Paralax unit and were again not able to charge their batteries.

Maybe you could reach out to them to find out if they solved their problem yet?

Pet peeve is how many folks reach out for help and then never post follow up with how the problem was resolved.

I hope you folks find a solution and let the group know the solution.

Steve K.

This is the discussion Parallax 8300 series battery charger/converter mystery .

Charles

Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #6 –
Thanks Steve K. and Charles.  I must have missed this when it went by the first time. I had been with the Caravan Club in Desert Hot Springs, where I met MikeH. He had the new 2019 TK next to me. He is from Alaska, so is far from home. The vintage of the coach and symptoms are identical. I'm thinking a manufacturing defect in the charging circuitry. Especially  if the second Parallax 8355 (Dave&Lee) is doing the same thing.  And it may explain why the mothership is being so unhelpful, if they can't get good parts. MikeH's case for factory intervention is weakened by him not being the 'original' owner.  I think he said that the first owner had his coach for just four days all told. 
    The resolution of Dave&Lee's case would really help.  I had finally bought a new converter from BestConverters, but couldn't get hold of Randy. I didn't replace my 21 year old converter yet because of the heat wave here in San Diego. (No power, no A/C), so it is sitting here in the box, and especially if RV-Getaways (Dave&Lee) second converter also failed, the Progressive Dynamics board is sounding like a better choice anyway.             RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #7 –
Ron, whatever happened with this?  Checking with a voltmeter would give you a real picture (e.g. TV might have been working until the battery ran down, but then stopped because battery wasn't getting charged).
Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #8 –
Hi Jane;  Yes MikeH's first warning that something was wrong, was that the inverter alarmed, then shut down due to low voltage. Something that you wouldn't expect while plugged in. At my urging he got a mobile RV repair person to confirm my diagnosis of a bad power supply/charger. (only cost $150, and he was only one mile away, could have driven there!)
    I've been doing research on the factory installed Parallax 8355 charger/supply that came with the power distribution box. It is a single stage charger. I just bought the Progressive Dynamics 4 stage charger PD4655V (with jumper to upgrade to LiFePO4 in the future). Not installed yet. Glad this group, Steve, recommended it.
   Mike H bought a DMM that I asked him to buy. He also bought a car battery charger, and it has kept his batteries good. Next Monday he will be at Montclair, and LD is going to replace/fix the charger. I think that Todd doesn't believe it really is bad.  Except for Dave&Lee from two weeks ago I don't think i've heard about a failure of such new supply/charger boards before. It's too coincidental that three boards have failed within a month of each other. Both in 'just delivered' coaches from LD, and who knows how many others,, in other brands of new coaches.
    I'll update this thread when I have more information.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #9 –
Hey, Ron.  We, too, are considering upgrading the Parallax converter, for the same reasons as you (possible future upgrade to LiFePO4 batteries).  If you have the time and inclination, please share the details of your upgrade.

Jim
Jim & Sue
Formerly owned: 2011 27' MB, Sidra
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #10 –
Hi Jim & Sue;  I have the old 6340 series Parallax converter. It's charger isn't very good and is more of a trickle charger, not good enough for prime time. It didn't matter much because my Solar Boost 2000 was a good charger, and it keeps the batteries charged.  If I needed to charge the batteries, the engine alternator did the job, and it was quieter than the old style Onan Emerald II (noisy!) generator.    When I upgraded to the Progressive Dynamics PD4655VL, The 'L' denotes that by moving a jumper it will accommodate the different charging voltage and profile for Li batteries. I may never upgrade though, but it didn't cost more.
      If your 2011 has the multi-stage charging, then you wouldn't need to upgrade yet.  I would wait until you really go to the BattleBorn or similar batteries, and get a high power charger, such as the PD9180LIK, to get the most out of having the LiFePO4 batteries.
     The Li conversion generally involves placing the new batteries more inside for better temperature control, and the larger charger/converter involves maybe some woodworking depending on your floorplan, and upgrading of some wiring.  Your MidBath has more room than my TK for the Li converter.  The L option was no extra charge and If I did upgrade, I would leave everything much the same, just to get the deeper state of discharge and more cycles benefits, not so much the higher rates of charge and discharge advantages.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #11 –
Thanks, Ron.  Got it.  Should we decide to put in Lithium batteries, we would want/need to replace the Parallax converter with a high power charger, such as the PD9180LIK.  Thanks for helping us get that very clearly established in our heads.  Apologies for temporarily hijacking the thread.

Jim
Jim & Sue
Formerly owned: 2011 27' MB, Sidra
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #12 –
As it turns out, Steve K., these Newbies *did* follow through with an update, as promised.  We believe we resolved our problem just yesterday, by having our reliable RV tech install a Progressive Dynamics battery charger/converter.  He thinks it's higher quality.  Shockingly, this is the first week we could get an appointment with our tech (or anywhere else, for that matter).  Makes us think we should stop what we are doing, go to RV systems school, and open a shop immediately.  But we digress.  It turns out the original 2019 and second Parallax units had internal, non-replaceable fuses that were fried, despite our use of shore power/pedestal surge protection reflecting incoming power at amps well within the LD manual's specs.  We were left with AC (110 appliances working), but no DC/12V, and coach batteries only charging by solar or the alternator. AP Products (Parallax's successor company) sent us a 1-page flow sheet on steps to take with a voltmeter to confirm the problem was the Parallax battery charger/converter.  It was.  Why did the original 2019 Parallax unit last just over a year?  Don't know.  We were off the grid most of our 13K miles. The test voyage for the Progressive Dynamics charger converter is forthcoming.  We also have posted the update today with some additional details on our original Parallax 8300 Mystery thread. See Charles' link to the original post above.  If anything goes wrong with the Progressive Dynamics unit, we will advise the group for the good of the Order.  Otherwise, consider this mystery solved.  We hope this info is helpful.  Thanks again to all gurus and heroes who replied or reached out by PM.

Dave & Lee
2019 27MB, HEY BUBU

Quote from: Steve K.  - 
So good of you to try and help this new owner. Their problem sounds similar to another 2019 owner's (Dave &Lee) problem that was posted 2 weeks ago. I think the discussions title was "Paralax 8300 mystery"; it is in the technical forum section. They were on their second Paralax unit and were again not able to charge their batteries.

Maybe you could reach out to them to find out if they solved their problem yet?

Pet peeve is how many folks reach out for help and then never post follow up with how the problem was resolved.

I hope you folks find a solution and let the group know the solution.

Steve K.
2019 Mid Bath
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #13 –
Thank you for the EXCELLENT follow up! Glad you resolved your problem and perhaps you have helped a few others with similar issues.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #14 –
So I want to tie up this thread. I haven't contacted MikeH since he was at the mothership. He paid them about $500 for Todd to replace the defective power supply/charger board, and labor.  Parallax expects the OEM (Lazy Daze) to handle warranty repairs, and was unhelpful at defraying the cost. Maybe LD will come through with a refund for MikeH.
     A defective water heater control board was replaced also at Mike's cost, and he paid for the labor. The rig, delivered in April, resold in a week (CV19 job loss) and put in storage for another month so Mike could fly back to Alaska, and return by way of his other car. So about 5 months of real use before the Parallax failure.
   Like Dave and Lee's repair person, I had recommended replacing with the Progressive Dynamics board, but Mike was hesitant to change to a third party board, hoping that LD would honor a warranty. LD declined to put in a PD unit.        RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #15 –
Thanks for the update Ron.
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #16 –
Well we can add another one to the list. On a short weekend trip mine has the exact same problem.
2018 mid-bath. Can't get Prallax to respond .
2018 MB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #17 –
Hi Tom;  I have experience only with a really old Parallax Magnetek 6345 converter.  How sure are you that it is the Parallax converter? Is the house 12v dc still ok, (or does nothing work at 12v). ? Or is it just the battery charging section?  I've installed two Progressive Dynamics PD 4655VL with new fuse board. Both with the LiF jumper to handle Lithium batteries in the future.  My Lazy Daze has been converted to Lithium batteries. RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #18 –
Tom,

Like Ron, I decided to replace my Parallax charger/converter with a PD4655. I have nearly new LifeLine AGM batteries, as a result of earlier issues with the OEM Paralax, and so I installed the PD 4655 with the jumper in lead acid position.  When these AGMs wear out I will replace them with LiPO4 and change the PD4655 jumper position accordingly.

I found the folks at Parallax to be generally responsive.  However, Parallax did not acknowledge the possibility that their device, which charges at a fixed higher voltage, may cause sulfation and failure of lead acid batteries over time.  And, from speaking with LifeLine, Lazy Daze’s former Service Manager Vince (now employed by Leisure Coachworks in Fontana, CA), and some experts from this forum, I believe the Parallax device caused sulfation related failure of one of my OEM AGM batteries.

Of course, your issue may be different than mine or not even related to the charger/converter (to Ron’s point).  The Parallax technical support engineer I spoke with, Bruce, may be able to help. His number is: 1-800-417-2477, extension 265.

Good luck.

Warren
Warren
2019 MB “Dream Catcher”
Jeep Wrangler JL
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #19 –
Add us to the list of failed parallax 8300 converters with a 2018 mid-bath. Guessing it was defective and have replaced it with another one and will see how it does.
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #20 –
Copying this from my other thread on our converter failure:

We wondered if perhaps the TempAssure module that plugs into the converter could be the source of the failure.
So we filled out their "Contact the Experts" form and received the interesting response:
"It is possible the TempAssure module failed and took out the converter."

They offered us a warranty claim on the TempAssure Module (can't take them up on the offer since we're the second owners).

Curious if anyone knows when LazyDaze started using the TempAssure modules?

The new converter has been holding just fine without the TempAssure Module (we had Vince unplug it after the first converter replacement failed within 24 hours).

Now our debate is whether we ought to purchase a new TempAssure Module or simply live without it.

Anyone have sage wisdom/advice on the potential consequences of not doing the temperature compensation on our Lifeline AGM batteries?
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #21 –
My parallax 8375 on my 2016 MB started charging the house batteries at 14.6 all the time with the temp assure module attached. When I disconnect the module, the voltage drops to a constant 13.8V.

I ordered a new temp assure module from Amazon and got the same result. Contacted parallax Bruce for tech support and he advised that Amazon was not an authorized seller and wouldn’t honor the warranty.
I returned the Amazon unit and bought another from his recommended seller. Same result, same problem.
The “boost” light on the Ethernet jumper never lights up and it never drops from 14.6V unless I unplug the module

Followup dialog with Bruce has him wanting me to return the temp assure module to him for warranty testing.
I am sure the circuit on the main charging board is cooked, 3 different temp assure modules installed and none working.

I still have the original AGMs installed and they seem fine, so prevented battery damage thus far.
I’ll probably go lithium and chuck the parallax at the same time.
2016 Mid Bath
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #22 –
Heads Up: Wanted to add that in our email with Bruce, we also learned Parallax will not honor the warranty if  you purchase their products through Amazon, eBay or Walmart.
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)
 
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #23 –
Hi Kitty, Lead acid batteries in extreme temperatures need the charging system to change charging voltages. I'm sure that Lazy Daze wanted the best for the batteries, and would have ordered the TempAssure modules.  Thanks to you, Vince and Airbusguy for realizing where the failures are coming from.  Surely the design is lacking, either in the power supply itself, or the TempAssure portion. It is regrettable that Parallax management can't 'own up' to their failure of design and testing!    Think of batteries sitting on a tongue of a trailer in hot or cold weather!  Our LD batteries are in more secure almost closed off areas, and don't get exposed to the temperature extremes that other motorhomes (and trailers) expose their batteries to.  Most other motorhomes have them exposed underneath the stairs, or chassis to heat from the street underneath with absolutely no moderation of outside temperature.
   So with a change to Lithium batteries, you could probably just leave the Parallax unit in place. The TempAssure failure shows that the power supply can achieve the 14.4, or 14,6 volts needed, and the batteries built in battery management system will shut off when they are charged.  I assume that this high voltage is just coming from the battery charging portion of the Parallax 8300 unit, and the coach still has a lower voltage (12.8 volts?) running the house.  Has anyone dissected that TempAssure unit to see what is inside?
     Recently someone here posted a picture of a remnant in their near battery box of a gray heat shrink coated object with one wire cut (or broken off). Is that a impromptu repair of a Parallax problem?      RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Almost New Parallax 8355, no 12V DC
Reply #24 –
At night,  temperatures are falling into the 30s and the MPPT is turning the solar system off. With our TempAssure still disconnected, we are seeing a steady voltage of 13.7V overnight.

Is this what we should expect? (We can't find much in the way of documentation on the Parallax 8300).

Also curious if anyone knows what voltages we would expect to see through the converter's 3 stages (bulk, absorption and float) - assuming no solar input?
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)