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Topic: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas? (Read 1018 times) previous topic - next topic
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Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
OK, Folks...Please put your thinking hats on...

My 2007 26 MB (with Banks), over the past week, began intermittently not starting.  Sometimes it would fire right up without any problems, sometimes it would start up only after 2 or 3 turns of the key, and just today, I can't get it to start at all.  I can still hear the solednoid click and the dashboard lights come on after turning the key, but that's all that happens.  On 3 or 4 occasions over the past week, when I couldn't get it started, I would turn on the generator, and that seemed to get it started right away.  Today, it's not starting no matter how many times I turn the key, and the generator isn't helping me.

I did put in a new battery, because it was quite old (8-9 years) and only putting out 475 of the 650 CCA it was rated for; however, the problem still persists.  I've looked at the connections on the top of the battery, and they are clean and tight.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Eric
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #1 –
You can check out my Banks saga here.

It was a faulty Banks Module in my case. In post #22 I recount my visit to Banks to fix the problem.
My wheels:
2003 MB
2012 Jeep Liberty
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #2 –
Quote from: debinvenice  - 
You can check out my Banks saga here.

It was a faulty Banks Module in my case. In post #22 I recount my visit to Banks to fix the problem.
Yes...I saw your thread before I posted, but I don't have any problem with losing power once started.  In fact, I drove from Sedona, AZ to home in San Diego without issue once started.  Thank you, though...I appreciate your response.
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #3 –
Eric, if I understand your problem, it seems as if the starter is not cranking the engine at all. Is that correct?

I think the first step is to find out if the new battery has the necessary voltage by checking the volts with a multimeter. It is possible that the new battery is defective OR that you have something (like the lights ) tuned on that has been drawing down the engine's battery. A fresh and fully charged battery should read around 12.65 volts or more.

If the battery is fully charged, I would make sure that I have good connections with the battery cables and then the cable to the starter.

I would probably try jump starting from another vehicle or a portable jumper pack.

If I am misunderstanding your post and the engine is actually cranking but not starting,, you may have a bad fuel pump. I have found over the years that some folks describe hard starting situations with different terminology.

Hopefully, you just got a bad battery. Good luck and please post a follow up with how the problem was resolved.

Steve K
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Morgueman  - 
Yes...I saw your thread before I posted, but I don't have any problem with losing power once started.  In fact, I drove from Sedona, AZ to home in San Diego without issue once started.  Thank you, though...I appreciate your response.

Check my thread here.

My problems began with starting issues and progressed to losing power. You could still have a loose or defective module.
My wheels:
2003 MB
2012 Jeep Liberty
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #5 –
Hi,

I have a 2007 , 31 foot LD which has a Banks system.  I had the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS  you have,  It was the fuel pump.

Bob Wilson
2007 31 IB
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Bob Wilson  - 
Hi,

I have a 2007 , 31 foot LD which has a Banks system.  I had the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS  you have,  It was the fuel pump.

Bob Wilson
I went on YouTube and found reports of people having issues with loose gear selector rods, and the vehicle wouldn't start because the vehicle wasn't registering as being in Park.  So, I put it into Neutral, and it started right up (repeatedly twice more as well).  I then left it off for an hour, and went back.  Now, it won't start in Park or Neutral.  Did you have this kind of intermittent failure, and when it works, it fired right up and runs just fine for as long as I keep the engine on?  I'm very naive with respect to auto mechanics, but it seems that, if the issue was a bad fuel pump, the issue wouldn't be intermittent.

My hunch is that it's more electrical, and possibly a bad connection somewhere.  I know where the starter solenoid is and made sure those connections are clean and tight.  I don't actually know where the starter itself is...Can anyone tell me? (Reminder: 2007 E450).

Thank you,
Eric
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #7 –
Quote from: debinvenice  - 
Check my thread here.

My problems began with starting issues and progressed to losing power. You could still have a loose or defective module.
Thank you for your comment; however, it doesn't seem like a bad PCM module would cause intermittent issues.
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Steve K.  - 
Eric, if I understand your problem, it seems as if the starter is not cranking the engine at all. Is that correct?

I think the first step is to find out if the new battery has the necessary voltage by checking the volts with a multimeter. It is possible that the new battery is defective OR that you have something (like the lights ) tuned on that has been drawing down the engine's battery. A fresh and fully charged battery should read around 12.65 volts or more.

If the battery is fully charged, I would make sure that I have good connections with the battery cables and then the cable to the starter.

I would probably try jump starting from another vehicle or a portable jumper pack.

If I am misunderstanding your post and the engine is actually cranking but not starting,, you may have a bad fuel pump. I have found over the years that some folks describe hard starting situations with different terminology.

Hopefully, you just got a bad battery. Good luck and please post a follow up with how the problem was resolved.

Steve K
Hi Steve.  Thanks for your response.
To answer your questions: Correct, the starter doesn't crank at all when it doesn't start.  The problem is intermittent, though, and when it works, it cranks and starts perfectly.  I don't think the battery is the issue either.  Although I haven't checked the voltage on the new battery, it acts exactly the same as the old battery with respect to this problem (ie.  starts up immediately or not at all).  I haven't tried jump starting from another vehicle, but I have tried to use the generator and it doesn't help (although it seemed to a couple of times when I first started having this problem with the old battery).
Yes, I'll definitely post the resolution once discovered.
For now, I'm praying I don't need to tow the RV anywhere.  If anyone knows a mobile mechanic somewhat close to Carlsbad, CA, I'd certainly appreciate the referral.

Thank you,
Eric
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #9 –
Hi Eric; Sure sounds like the starter motor to me. A voltmeter on the heavy duty wire going to the starter should have 12 VDC. on it all of the time.  The 'solenoid' is energized to start the vehicle. It really is just a heavy duty relay, that connects the 12V to the starter motor. You should be able to hear that actuate when you try to start the engine. Even if the starter motor doesn't work. The solenoid is attached to the starter motor.
   It is good that everything else works when it does(did) start.  Pretty much points to the starter. The "starter" includes the solenoid, brushes, Bendix assembly, and the actual motor. Usually the entire assembly gets replaced as a unit. The old 'core' goes to a rebuilder to be refurbished and tested.  Rock Auto has a Ford Motocraft for $177. The core return $35 might pay for shipping. Others are less at $60 to $100. 2007 FORD E-450 6.8L V10 Starter Motor | RockAuto
   The starter is under, at the side of the engine, usually the passenger side at the back near the flywheel and transmission. YouTube will help on that. Used to be I could change it out in the parking lot.  My Lexus had a solenoid fail. $4200 was a bargain. (almost have to pull the engine!)   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #10 –
Quote from: Morgueman  - 
I went on YouTube and found reports of people having issues with loose gear selector rods, and the vehicle wouldn't start because the vehicle wasn't registering as being in Park.  So, I put it into Neutral, and it started right up (repeatedly twice more as well).  I then left it off for an hour, and went back.  Now, it won't start in Park or Neutral.

Hi Eric,
I had a similar problem, not with my LD, but with my Jeep Cherokee.  The problem was no power to the starter motor but all lights, radio etc were fine.  Sometimes when there was no power to the starter motor, putting it in neutral would then allow it to start.  Sometimes moving the transmission shifter briskly through the gears several times would allow it to start.  The problem turned out to be a faulty Transmission Position Switch (TPS) that senses what gear the transmission is in, including park and neutral.  This switch was mounted on the side of the transmission and was fairly easy to replace once I knew what to look for.  Fords and Jeeps are different animals but I assume they both need someway to sense when the transmission is in park or neutral in order to start the engine.  Perhaps some of the experts with much more Ford experience than I can render an opinion.

- John

EDIT: Sorry, but I missed it when the OP said ”I can still hear the solednoid click”.  That was not the symptom in my case and could not be the problem you are experiencing now.  I hope you can find the right solution soon.
Fulltimer with a 2021 MId-Bath “Babe”, 1996 Cherokee “Scout” and “Bandit” the wonder dog 🐶
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #11 –
This should be a pretty standard diagnosis for a mechanic, but we are all over the place because it's not 100% clear what the symptoms are. 

IF it doesn't crank, and, IF you hear the solenoid from the starter clicking, and IF the battery is fine, the starter would be my first place to look.  I would be under the rig listening to the starter while someone else turns the key, and tapping on the starter to see if that does anything. 

Your Car Won’t Start & You Hear a Clicking Noise | Firestone Complete Auto Care
 

Rich

2003 MB
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #12 –
Quote from: rich  - 
This should be a pretty standard diagnosis for a mechanic, but we are all over the place because it's not 100% clear what the symptoms are. 

IF it doesn't crank, and, IF you hear the solenoid from the starter clicking, and IF the battery is fine, the starter would be my first place to look.  I would be under the rig listening to the starter while someone else turns the key, and tapping on the starter to see if that does anything. 

Your Car Won’t Start & You Hear a Clicking Noise | Firestone Complete Auto Care
 

Rich


Hi Rich,

Yes to all of your "IF" conditions  :)
I'm guessing it's the starter too.  I would like to replace it myself if not too difficult, especially since it's "stuck" at my house.  My first challenge is locating it though.  I didn't see it the first time I looked underneath the LD, but I'll look again when I get back home in a couple of days.  If anyone has pics to help, that would be great.

Thank you!
Eric
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #13 –
One correction.  My LD model is 2007, but my chassis is 2006.  The solenoid is attached to the driver-side sidewall in the engine bay, and there's no starter connected to it.  I tried to follow the bigger wires from the solenoid but they dive down and out of sight.  So, I haven't found the starter yet.
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #14 –
Hi Eric;  If that solenoid looks like this:  https://www.supplyhouse.com/White-Rodgers-586-108111-Solenoid-SPNO-15-VDC-Isolated-Coil-Normally-Open-Continuous-Contact-Rating-200-Amps-Inrush-600-Amps?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0eOPBhCGARIsAFIwTs4gQws6LzxHDOujEFj9i1F0ccfuzbDUgO1hi70607__L02wturKK7kaAju_EALw_wcB   then that is a relay that connects the house batteries to the chassis alternator (and chassis battery) to charge the house batteries while you are driving.
    This picture of a Ford starter:  Ford Starter Motors - MCS Auto Factors   shows the solenoid smaller cylinder next to the starter motor larger cylinder.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #15 –
If not already done, I'd recommend making sure all cables involved with the starter are corrosion free, tight and in good condition, including both ends of the battery to ground and starter to ground (if the starter is not case grounded).

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #16 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Hi Eric;  If that solenoid looks like this:  https://www.supplyhouse.com/White-Rodgers-586-108111-Solenoid-SPNO-15-VDC-Isolated-Coil-Normally-Open-Continuous-Contact-Rating-200-Amps-Inrush-600-Amps?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0eOPBhCGARIsAFIwTs4gQws6LzxHDOujEFj9i1F0ccfuzbDUgO1hi70607__L02wturKK7kaAju_EALw_wcB   then that is a relay that connects the house batteries to the chassis alternator (and chassis battery) to charge the house batteries while you are driving.
    This picture of a Ford starter:  Ford Starter Motors - MCS Auto Factors   shows the solenoid smaller cylinder next to the starter motor larger black cylinder.   RonB
Oops...Yes. What I was looking at is exactly like the picture. So, now I know that was, indeed, the relay.  No wonder sparks flew even though I had disconnected the negative terminal of the chassis battery. :o
I'll keep looking for the starter motor with attached solenoid.
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Older_Fossil  - 
If not already done, I'd recommend making sure all cables involved with the starter are corrosion free, tight and in good condition, including both ends of the battery to ground and starter to ground (if the starter is not case grounded).

Art
Thanks Art!  Yup, I checked the connections.  Wish it was just that...
 
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #18 –
This is a long shot, but a friend of mine once had a starter problem that turned out to be due to heat: the starter solenoid had gotten so hot that one of its soldered wires had lost its solder and was loose in its hole. See the "Rocky Mountain Breakdown" page on my website for details and an extreme closeup photo showing the problem.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #19 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
This is a long shot, but a friend of mine once had a starter problem that turned out to be due to heat: the starter solenoid had gotten so hot that one of its soldered wires had lost its solder and was loose in its hole. See the "Rocky Mountain Breakdown" page on my website for details and an extreme closeup photo showing the problem.
Thank you, Andy. It will interesting to see if that is my problem too.  I'll post an update once I get this resolved.
BTW...I have to admit that I spent more time looking at the picture of the pizza than the starter solenoid.
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #20 –
I would be not be so quick to blame the stater yet.
There are dozens of points of potential failure. After verifying the battery’s terminals and the ground connection are clean and tight, and the battery voltage is good, the starter’s operation can be verified by energizing the starter’s solenoid at the starter . I use a remote starter switch.
If the starter checks out OK, then work backwards toward the ignition switch and fuse panel, a standard trouble-shooting technique.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #21 –
Have you watched this yet?  May have some good clues/suggestions for your dilemma. Let us know the solution, please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjmKxLLIkY
I try not to break the rules but merely test their elasticity.  '88 22RL converted to Rear Dinette
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #22 –
Quote from: Morgueman  - 
Thank you, Andy. It will interesting to see if that is my problem too.  I'll post an update once I get this resolved.
BTW...I have to admit that I spent more time looking at the picture of the pizza than the starter solenoid.


Overheated starter solenoids were an issue with older Chevy LDs, especially the 350 V8s. The exhaust manifold was too close to the starter.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #23 –
A good video that details the wear involved with the key switch in the column, shift lever gear selector, that could affect the starting situation you are having.  My 23 yo LD doesn't have that problem. It is also too old to have the brake pedal as part of the safety interlock. I don't know if that comes into play for a 2006 chassis.
   A test lead connection to the solenoid terminal with a 12v light, would verify if power is getting to that solenoid. If it isn't, then it isn't the starter.  Somewhere on it's way to the solenoid, the 12volts is intermittent. That is where the problem is.  Changing the starter just complicates things, because if it is still intermittent, then you've introduced another possibility that the 'new starter' is defective.  If you do short those terminals to test the starter action, do it to the nuts, not the copper studs. The arc will damage the studs, and it will be hard to remove the nuts later.   RonB 
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Interimittently Won't Start. Any ideas?
Reply #24 –
I found the solenoid (and presumably the starter adjacent to it).  See the three attached pics, which actually make it look easily accessible, but it's way more buried than you'd think.  Below the starter/solenoid assembly are these pipes that appear to be related to the exhaust system and possibly unique to the Banks Power system.  In any event, I'm not currently able to lift the motorhome at all, and so I barely fit underneath, and certainly can't get the starter out or really do much of anything.  At least I was able to push my phone up and get some good shots of the set-up.  To me, the corrosion doesn't look too bad from the pics, but maybe that is indeed the issue.  Today, I'll head over to Home Depot and get a multimeter or 12V light and put it on the large red wire to see if I'm getting 12V to the solenoid.