Twelve Volt Appliances July 11, 2022, 02:04:07 pm To Howard; You wanted to be able to have back up air conditioning for your pet, and wanted an auto start for the generator if you were away from the rig. I have no experience with auto start systems, but it sounds like a bad idea, because the Emerald 2 is pretty 'touchy' to start manually. The MicroQuiet that most people have now may be more amenable to that scheme. Having massive quantities of Lithium battery, 800 Amp hours in your case, leads to the possibilities of having small compressor driven refrigerators, and now there are 12 volt air conditioners like the Dometic RTX-1000, and RTX-2000. This one from Amazon: Amazon.com: Totalral 12 Volt air Conditioner Top-Mounted Integrated RV Air... could be mounted in a regular roof vent. My inverter isn't up to running a normal A/C (13,500 btuh) but while driving the back of my 'TK gets pretty warm (it's all the windows, single pane) even with a pretty cool cab. The cats aren't welcome in the cab, and they generally travel in the cabover. I have 450 watts of solar, but Howard you will have enough to run one of these A/C units just from the solar. Many times while camped without hookups, or coming back from shopping, the insides can get warm enough to need some air. Also useful at night to take the 'edge off', these roof airs don't involve running the generator. I don't like the idea of runnIng the generator without being there to keep an eye on it. In extreme heat a 12 volt roof unit may be able to help the smaller 13,500 unit cool the coach with the generator or even with hookups. The Dometic 3400 Btuh: Dometic RTX 1000 Air Conditioner - 1200W, 12V - 9600028489 - RackUp+Go Has anybody installed or considered one of these air conditioners? RonB As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #1 – July 11, 2022, 03:25:51 pm Hi Howard & Deb,If you have access to a standard 110 volt outlet near your rig and are willing to make some temporary modifications to your rig’s window, you may want to check out this clever YouTube video. https://youtu.be/4inORCVktaEJust a crazy thought but window AC units large enough to cool our LDs are less than $200.00Kent 3 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #2 – July 11, 2022, 06:14:07 pm Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - July 11, 2022, 03:25:51 pmIf you have access to a standard 110-volt outlet near your rig and are willing to make some temporary modifications to your rig’s window, you may want to check out this clever YouTube video. https://youtu.be/4inORCVktaEJust a crazy thought but window AC units large enough to cool our LDs are less than $200.00Drive through almost any RV park with long-term residents and you will see window A/Cs, especially in warm climates.It shouldn't be too hard to fit an window A/C to one of the sliding windows.With daytime temps above a hundred and the nighttime temps remaining high, the Factory roof-top A/C is inadequate for most.LarryLarry
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #3 – July 11, 2022, 06:21:39 pm Quote from: RonB - July 11, 2022, 02:04:07 pmThe Dometic 3400 Btuh: Dometic RTX 1000 Air Conditioner - 1200W, 12V - 9600028489 - RackUp+GoHas anybody installed or considered one of these air conditioners? With the large lithium batteries that many are installing, running a small A/C overnight is becoming more practical, once the recharging strategy is resolved.I have seen semi-trucks with small A/Cs on their sleepers, bet they are the primary customers of these small, 12-volt A/Cs.Larry
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #4 – July 11, 2022, 08:03:15 pm In the past few years I've fitted 5,000 BTU window air conditioners to two rigs (although not to a Lazy Daze). It wasn't difficult. The first rig I modified was my little 13' fiberglass Trillium trailer. It came without a roof air conditioner, and at one point I needed to boondock in a hot area for a month rather than just move northward/upward. It wasn't hard to remove the small rear window and fit in the air conditioner.Because these air conditioners are mainly intended for windows that slide up and down, while the trailer's windows were top-hinged, the expanding side panels were not very useful. Instead, I filled the space above and around the unit with foamcore posterboard surfaced with white Contact film (or in the case of my Airstream, with 3" wide aluminum tape) for waterproofing.To secure the unit itself, I ran a 1x3 wooden bar across behind its top flange and out to the window frame. One screw secured the air conditioner to the bar, which prevented it from falling outward, and two screws secured the bar to the window frame, preventing it from falling inward (see photos). Very simple.In the 13' trailer, the 5,000 BTU air conditioner was actually overkill. I never turned the thermostat past the halfway point. But even in my current 19' Airstream, one of these was easily able to keep the rig cool in triple-digit temperatures.Why did I put a window air conditioner in my Airstream, since it already had a 13,500 BTU roof air conditioner? In the boondocking situation I was in, my Honda EU2200i generator was straining to run the roof air conditioner, and a 1.1 gallon tank of gas only lasted for three hours. Not practical! But the 5,000 BTU air conditioner drew only 600 watts when running. The generator barely noticed the load, and in "Eco Mode" the Honda generator is much quieter with a small load.In fact, for several weeks a friend and I shared that generator, running two 5,000 BTU window units at the same time and still not putting a strain on the generator. With both units continuously running full blast, we got about 7 hours out of a tankful of gas.I used the same simple wooden-bar mounting method in the Airstream as in the Trillium. Understand, I did not try to drive anywhere with the units mounted this way. I wouldn't have trusted my setups that far. But for stationary use, they were just fine, and super-easy. In a Lazy Daze with its horizontally sliding windows, you'd probably have to do things a bit differently. But the point Larry and Kent made stands: for well under $200, and requiring 600 watts or less, these small window air conditioners are worth considering. 4 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #5 – July 12, 2022, 04:21:05 am Hi Larry, there are laws in some states that Truckers can't leave the engines running, while the driver sleeps. Something about wasting gas! But my point is the roof A/C I have now even at low fan is hard to sleep with. The fan runs constantly and the compressor cycles. One of these 4k BTUH A/C's may run quieter and continue to run without worrying about 'generator' restrictions in some non hookup campgrounds. While driving in hot areas, additional cooling could be provided to supplement the dash air. And while stopping at tourist attractions/ shopping/ or other things, the insides can be kept cool (for the pets) without being there to tend the generator. RonB
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #6 – July 12, 2022, 10:59:08 am Quote from: RonB - July 12, 2022, 04:21:05 amBut my point is the roof A/C I have now even at low fan is hard to sleep with. The fan runs constantly and the compressor cycles. One of these 4k BTUH A/C's may run quieter and continue to run without worrying about 'generator' restrictions in some non hookup campgrounds. We don't mind using the A/C at night if it is necessary but prefer not to use it. Adding the soft-start quiets the compressor start-up to the point where it doesn't wake me now, no more thumping or banging.Since the small A/Cs use compressors, they might have the same noise issues unless they have inverters or soft-starts built-in.Larry
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #7 – July 12, 2022, 01:01:36 pm Here’s an interesting alternative to installing a SoftStart device on your LD AC.https://youtu.be/MAUARYe2HSkInteresting product.Kent 3 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #8 – July 12, 2022, 01:44:23 pm "Since the small A/Cs use compressors, they might have the same noise issues unless they have inverters or soft-starts built-in."The air conditioners my friend and I have used--5,000 BTU Toshiba units--do change their sound when the compressor comes on, but there's no big thump as with some air conditioners. Still, I know what you mean about sleeping with an air conditioner on. One strategy I use is to cool the rig below normal late in the afternoon and evening, then shut off the air conditioner when I go to bed. In really hot weather that may not be enough to last through the night, but it's worth a try. 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #9 – July 12, 2022, 01:55:38 pm We bought this for our tiny house. Window ac that uses mini split inverter technology. I’ve always hated window ac’s because of sound levels. This was a game changer us. Much quieter and less expensive to run.8,000 BTU U-shaped Air Conditioner 2 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #10 – July 12, 2022, 02:16:30 pm Kent, that is an interesting product indeed, thanks for sharing! I opted for the wired in version as there are several advantages (once installed) over the plug and play version. Should be delivered soon but I still need to repair my AC unit before installation.Price- I paid $319 vs. $599Safer- less mechanical connectionsMore efficient- reduces amps required to start by 70% vs. 50%and, don't have to worry about it being stolen!I do like the product, though, and think it's a viable option for many. 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #11 – July 12, 2022, 02:18:20 pm I’ve been running my roof AC off my inverter on a regular basis whenever the solar charges the batteries above 90% to cool things down for an hour or so, knowing the solar will quickly recharge.Installing a smaller AC in place of the rear vent sounds intriguing, as I could run it for much longer, perhaps indefinitely during the day when I’m pulling in 600+ watts during the day. Not to mention a backup AC in case the roof goes out. 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #12 – July 12, 2022, 02:21:25 pm Thanks for posting that, Kent! The SoftStartUp looks very interesting--and not just because it is the first plug-and-play soft start device I've heard of. It has several advantages and one major drawback.1. Plus-and-play soft start. No need to climb up on the roof, take off the air conditioner shroud, and mess with the wiring.2. Power checking--won't connect if shore power is wired incorrectly.3. Power monitoring--their iOS or Android app lets you see, via Bluetooth, how many amps you're using, what the shore power voltage is, how many cumulative watts you've used since resetting (from the app), and so on.4. Surge protection.5. Potentially, the ability to run one's air conditioner while plugged into 15 amp power, as when staying at a friend's house. (It doesn't give you more overall power, but it will greatly reduce the compressor startup surge that can trip a breaker in that situation.)This could completely replace my Progressive Industries power management unit, while providing soft start capability and an easy way to monitor power usage anytime from my phone.Now the big drawback: the price. Their list price is $899 (!) and their discounted price is $599. That's very expensive for what you're getting (the hardware, I mean). If this were $300 or $350, I'd buy one right now. But for six hundred dollars... well, I don't plug in that often, so I can't justify it. Too bad. 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #13 – July 12, 2022, 02:25:22 pm Yeah, the power and surge protection is nice but I already had a Progressive Industries plug-in unit. I'd like to replace it with a hard-wired version.
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #14 – July 12, 2022, 02:26:18 pm "Window ac that uses mini split inverter technology."Looks like a nice unit. Might be awkward to install in an RV, though because it assumes vertically sliding windows, which few RVs have.
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #15 – July 12, 2022, 02:37:56 pm "I already had a Progressive Industries plug-in unit."Same here. I gotta say, if PI doesn't come out with a product that matches the SoftStartUp's features, they'll be missing a bet. This is right up their alley. I've written to them, suggesting that.
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #16 – July 12, 2022, 02:43:16 pm Andy,The price for the SoftStartUp unit is at the upper end of the scale, but an Easy Start costs about $350 alone. A good surge protection device to plug into a power pedestal is between $250-300. When taking into consideration the multiple purpose of the SoftStartUp and the elimination of clambering up to the roof of an RV, the discounted cost at $599 is much more appealing. Just a thought.Kent 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #17 – July 12, 2022, 03:28:03 pm I think the price point is more for those who have two ac units, since the plug-and-play model allows for two acs to run at the same time. Which with the discount would be just as much to get 2 hardwire versions for each ac.Another benefit I saw on the plug-and-play model on one of their videos is the ability to use it for your home when powering the fridge or window unit acs and such. So it does allow for multiple uses, not just for the rv.However I wish it would give the same amp drop as the hardwire...
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #18 – July 12, 2022, 04:00:28 pm The SoftStartUp is exciting but has one disadvantage, it's easy to steal, which is why I encouraged installing hardwired surge protectors. Hardwired units are automatic and require no thought or effort in normal use.The SoftStartUp could be hardwired in with additional work, I wouldn't be surprised if a hardwired model is introduced at some point.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #19 – July 12, 2022, 05:02:12 pm First I’m apprehensive of Kent’s post on that Soft StartUp. Sound very interesting but maybe too expensive for us given that we might not use it very much. When we run the A/C it’s at least on 20A service with a 10g extension and I don’t use any other 120V electricity. I’ll first turn on just the low fan and a minute later turn on low A/C. I’ll seldom turn on high fan and high A/C on 20A service. I believe I’m reducing the demand by this gradual approach.I’ll not run the A/C when the temperatures are above 95 degrees on 20A service when directly in the Sun. The 10g extension cord is hot to the touch. Instead I’ll use the opportunity to exercise the generator. If the price of that plug and play Soft Start ever decreases, I’d be tempted. Finally, hanging around this neighborhood is not healthy for my to-do list or wallet. 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #20 – July 12, 2022, 06:01:49 pm Hi Larry; These RTX200 are inverter run two cylinder compressors, very quiet. The point was that they run 'native' on 12vDC and can be run in non hookup campsites, especially at night when generator hour regulations prevent generator use. They might be useful in hookup campgrounds when the grid goes down, or when you need a little extra A/C. With all that solar just sitting up there and large battery banks doing nothing, (Kent, you, Howard A. and others) you could save a little gas and hours on the generator. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #21 – July 13, 2022, 12:32:25 pm "The SoftStartUp is exciting but has one disadvantage, it's easy to steal, which is why I encouraged installing hardwired surge protectors."Good point, Larry, and I should have mentioned that. A $600 item that can be simply unplugged and carried away is a likely target for theft. The SoftStartUp has loops on its plugs that are claimed to make it possible to secure it against theft, but they're just plastic and would be easy to cut through.
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #22 – July 13, 2022, 01:59:53 pm I completely understand the reluctance to attach anything of value to the power pedestal in a CG. It is for this reason that I tether my portable surge protector to the pedestal with a cable and pad lock. Granted anything left outside is vulnerable to theft even if locked up. When I do use my surge protector as mentioned, I will most often cover the device to protect it from the weather and prying eyes. This has been my MO for nearly 7 years and so far I’ve managed to retain my electrical gear outside the rig.So it is. I will not be purchasing the SoftStartUp as I had AM Solar install a Easy Start on my AC and have no need for the device. However, as it has been stated, it is an interesting device that may warrant consideration for some.Kent 1 Likes
Re: Twelve Volt Appliances Reply #23 – July 13, 2022, 02:17:41 pm I just received the Softstart package but still need to locate that darn capacitor to hopefully repair the AC. Seems like the company has pretty good customer and tech support so you probably won’t go wrong with any of their products.
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