Re: Starlink Install Reply #75 – April 28, 2022, 12:22:02 am "efficiency of portable panels is pathetic, even in ideal condition I have never seen working better then 50%."Depends upon the panels. The fold-away panels sold with some of the power stations/"solar generators" may not be that great; I haven't tried them. I have been using a pair of Renogy Eclipse 100 watt panels on the ground for the past six months or so, and I've seen more than 200 watts peak output, although 180 watts is more typical (and that's in the middle of the day). I have the panels tilted at 30°, and move them a couple of times each day to face the sun.I've connected the panels in series for 35 V output, and am feeding a Victron MPPT solar charging controller via a 20-foot 10 gauge cable. The higher voltage cuts the voltage drop in the cable in half--important when I need to get the panels twenty feet away from the rig to avoid shadows. And the MPPT controller works more efficiently with a higher input voltage.I'm actually planning to make my own "solar suitcase" by hinging a couple of 100 W panels together and adding a handle, just for convenience. It will be a lot less expensive than commercially sold 200 watt suitcases, because I won't be including a solar controller on the panels. (The controllers on most suitcases I've seen are not MPPT, and so are not very efficient. That's something to look for if you're shopping for a solar suitcase system.)The charging limitation with the power stations that I referred to is not so much an issue with the charging source (AC adapter or solar panel) as it is with the internal circuitry of the power station itself. Most of these are just not built to accept high charging currents.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #76 – April 28, 2022, 07:31:25 am Andy,ThanksI will be in Moab for 5-6 days in late fall and I think there are quality RV modification shops there. Hope I can find a shop or a person who can put 2-4 additional panels on the roof. I will remember your input and will ask for the best available panels but I do believe LD roof is reinforced to accomodate factory installed panels at specific points. I will have to look for lighter perhaps flexible ones and who knows I can find a technician to help me in replacing converter/charger as well .... you are putting panels in parallel to increase the voltage and decreasing the current. I understand less lost due to less current but does it also mean I do not have to worry about wire gauge and continue to use factory installed wire (really do not want to mess this one)? Is Solar controller is smart enough to sense the incoming voltage and adjust itself or is there any programming involved, this should be trivial but then I must be dreaming. Different panels have different efficiencies does it mess up the system ? PS: I will finally get the Startlink HW today and am looking to have fun few day. I think I will also need to get apple tv to change dump rv tv into smart tv Chromecast is another option and decision will be based on power consumption and if outside power is required and socket is present. So far I was streaming by hardwiring cell phone to tv but apple tv will make life little easy. Just trying to have familiar programs and NEWS at regular time to reduce home sickness. We are taking months long trip for last few years but better half still miss home around one month mark though towards the end we are planning the next adventure.Thanks a lot, I learnt a lot in last few days and sure most of it will surfaced when time come to execute.Regards,
Re: Starlink Install Reply #77 – April 28, 2022, 01:26:25 pm An update from the folks at RVTravel:https://www.rvtravel.com/starlink-mobile-broadband-news-rvers-1049b/
Re: Starlink Install Reply #78 – April 28, 2022, 02:19:06 pm "I will have to look for lighter perhaps flexible ones"Today's solar panels don't weigh that much (15 pounds/6.8 kilograms in the case of the 100 W Renogy Eclipse panels I mostly use), and I've never had a problem placing panels anywhere it suited me on the roof of a Lazy Daze or Airstream. I wouldn't worry about that.However, I would definitely avoid flexible panels. For one thing, they are much less durable than rigid panels. Manufacturers know this, and it's reflected in the warranties. Typical rigid panels are warranted for ten years or more. Most flexible panels are warranted for one or two years, if that. I've tried flexible panels in the past, as has a friend of mine, and we saw them fail within a year or so.Second, solar panels get hot--very hot. In full sunlight, the underside of a solar panel is almost too hot to touch. With a rigid panel, you have an inch or two of air space between the panel and the roof, so air flow can carry away much of that heat. With a flexible panel mounted flat on the roof, the heat is transmitted directly to the coach's interior. It's exactly like painting large areas of your roof black."you are putting panels in parallel to increase the voltage and decreasing the current."No, I'm putting them in series to increase voltage and decrease current."does it also mean I do not have to worry about wire gauge and continue to use factory installed wire"If your panels on the roof are connected in series, or more likely in series-parallel pairs, you may be able to use the factory-installed wiring. This is something that you'll need to calculate. There are tradeoffs between series and parallel solar panel connections; they've been discussed elsewhere in this forum and I won't go into them here. Most people put all panels in parallel, and this is what most installers are likely to be familiar with. But in that case it's easy to have so much current that the factory wiring creates serious voltage drop, meaning wasted power. I don't know what the limit is for your rig; you'll have to check before deciding which way to go.‘Different panels have different efficiencies does it mess up the system ?”Efficiencies? No. But in a parallel hookup, differing voltages (Vmp) are to be avoided. For example, if you put a 19V panel in parallel with a 16.7 V panel, you’ll get about 16.7 V out. It’s a “lowest common denominator” situation. For series-connected panels, it's the reverse: you want to match current outputs, but voltages can vary."Is Solar controller is smart enough to sense the incoming voltage and adjust itself...?"I don't know what solar controller Lazy Daze installed on your rig, but I wouldn't bet on it. That's something you need to find out. If it's not an MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) controller, the answer is definitely no. For example, if it's described as a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) controller, that means it's not MPPT, and hence is inefficient. In that case, you should replace it.If it is an MPPT controller, then it will adjust to a range of incoming voltages, but there is an upper limit. For example, I'm currently using a Victron Smart Solar 100/30. It can accept input voltages up to 100 volts, and currents up to 30 amps."Just trying to have familiar programs and NEWS at regular time to reduce home sickness."Understood. At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, there's always shortwave radio. :-) I don't know what reception is like, but it might be worth a try. Otherwise, streaming seems like the way to go.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #79 – April 28, 2022, 06:36:17 pm Andy, Ron, Larry and other folks who have contributed. After reading all the valuable input bottom line for me is to first check the Starlink power consumption and if I can manage it with current systems my life will be easy (of course I am assuming that Starlink will work, I already ordered telescopic pole and starlink adaptor and some clamps). If Starlink require more power then current system can support. I think I have enough know how to put one 200ah battery in a Tupperware and wire it with inverter, converter/charger and dc to dc charger. I will just charge it from generator or when motorhome is driven or when we have shore power. If need be I can get bigger or two batteries ....I hijacked this thread and do apologize for that ... coming back to Starlink good NEWS is I got the Starlink box few minutes ago and no matter how much I want to open it right now, it will be iftar (time to break the fast) soon and last few days of Ramadan are for special prayers and Starlink has to wait for couple of days ...Take care,
Re: Starlink Install Reply #80 – April 28, 2022, 06:38:02 pm Quote from: Muhammad - April 28, 2022, 07:31:25 amI will be in Moab for 5-6 days in late fall and I think there are quality RV modification shops there. Hope I can find a shop or a person who can put 2-4 additional panels on the roof. I will remember your input and will ask for the best available panels but I do believe LD roof is reinforced to accommodate factory installed panels at specific points. I will have to look for lighter perhaps flexible ones Just trying to have familiar programs and NEWS at a regular time to reduce home sickness. We are taking months long trip for the last few years but better half still miss home around one month mark though towards the end we are planning the next adventure.Avoid flexible panels, they have short lives.I have installed dozen of solar panels on LDs. There is no need for any roof reinforcement, as Andy pointed out, today's panels are very light. I recently removed two 80-watt panels (one was cracked), installed 18 years ago, replacing them with 100-watt panels. The new panels weigh almost half as much as the old ones and are smaller in size too.Solar panels can be mounted anywhere there is room. Bed the panel's feet into polyurethane, and screw them down with short stainless steel sheet metal screws. I use 1"X #8 screws. The screws get a polyurethane topping. Lots of information about this is in the archives.If adding two to four more panels, you will need to upgrade the lead-in cables, coming down from the roof to the controller and then down to the battery. If not done, much of the extra power will be lost as heat.The alternative is to go to a higher voltage solar controller and wire the panels in series or series parallel. If LD is still installing Sky Blue 3000i, it should accommodate using 60-cell panels, limited to 22-amps total input.https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/SB3000i-manual.pdfWhen traveling, we stream the same radio programs as we do at home. Sirius-XM also provides some continuity.And there is always the LDOF online if looking for something familiar.Larry
Re: Starlink Install Reply #81 – April 28, 2022, 07:02:00 pm Thanks Larry. After Andy's message it was pretty clear what need to be done. I still have to make a first hole in the roof though I know after that it will be easy :-) I took your idea of setting the telescopic pole next to ladder. I might be taking Starlink antenna out every time we move .... will see ... making progress.Apart from kidding ... sitting in the evening together at regular time and having tea and some cookie just like home and watching NPR does help ..... I continue to deposit, I know I will be withdrawing big time if and when we make the next move.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #82 – April 29, 2022, 11:32:54 am And I was ready with sleeves up but it simply start working. Still changing direction to find optimum direction but got the connection. Next test test I guess will be 1) speed test in an hour when it is settled 2) more importantly power it from small battery pack to see how long 500w last.Again, beside wiring connection and naming the Wi-Fi I do not have to do anything. Just keeping it on the corner of the deck which I know is not optimum.More updates after I check power consumption Quote from: Muhammad - April 28, 2022, 07:02:00 pmThanks Larry. After Andy's message it was pretty clear what need to be done. I still have to make a first hole in the roof though I know after that it will be easy :-) I took your idea of setting the telescopic pole next to ladder. I might be taking Starlink antenna out every time we move .... will see ... making progress.Apart from kidding ... sitting in the evening together at regular time and having tea and some cookie just like home and watching NPR does help ..... I continue to deposit, I know I will be withdrawing big time if and when we make the next move.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #83 – April 29, 2022, 12:00:04 pm Just trying to add a picture first time. Not sure if pic will show up 2 Likes
Re: Starlink Install Reply #84 – April 30, 2022, 12:27:22 pm Quote from: Muhammad - April 29, 2022, 12:00:04 pm[attach type=thumb]28727[/attach]Just trying to add a picture first time. Not sure if pic will show upJust want to confirm that second generation of starlink use 40W. Much more then I was expecting and need to think how I can mange it with existing resources. Last thing I need is more stuff in limited space but I think I can store solar panel Andy mentioned. Battery bank I have will be good for 2 days if we are careful but it take only about 100W for charging. Oh well … spices of life …. I never charged battery bank with usb c from citrate lighter while driving time to check that option as well along with efficient solar panel and more panels on roof if/when I find a person/shop to do it properly.Starlink is holding up pretty good over about 24 hrs. I turned off home router and everything at home is channeling thru starlink without any hickup. I will continue using starlink for few weeks till it is time to pack. II will call it a success with an open issue of power management and will move forward. Thanks team. 2 Likes
Re: Starlink Install Reply #85 – April 30, 2022, 01:21:18 pm Not important but your Starlink is the third generation. There were two versions of the round antenna.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #86 – April 30, 2022, 02:26:26 pm Quote from: Muhammad - April 26, 2022, 03:57:16 amRight now stock batteries and converter along with two additional batteries are good enough for usour coach battery hardly goes below 90%. If I understand correctly, your LD has four deep cycle batteries, a 440-amp/hour battery pack.Why are you not using its large capacity and instead buying several small portable batteries when you have so much battery power already installed and paid for?Larry 1 Likes
Re: Starlink Install Reply #87 – April 30, 2022, 03:22:10 pm Larry,Reason for two smaller battery pack was plan B for bipap and for low watt outside 120V lights. At that time starlink was not in the picture. Two instead of one was to manage weight and space.I did not forget Andy bring up inverter earlier. I have 300 watt inverter which I will definitely try to use. As for 440ah battery I have 88ah on regular basis (80% as per your directions and assuming solar generate enough to top off battery each day). Our average power consumption is about 44 ah per day which leave 44 ah for starlink which translate to 528W. Good enough for 13 hour use. You are absolutely right, no need to worry .... there are certain assumptions here about solar topping up coach battery on daily basis which happen very rarely and for that weak assumption I do have 1.5 battery bank (leaving half for bipap) which will give me about 750 watt close to 9 additional hours of starlink. I am good.Andy mentioned pure sine wave converter Amazon.com: BESTEK 1000W Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC 12V to 110V AC Car... and I do have Amazon.com: BESTEK 300W Power Inverter DC 12V to 110V AC Car Inverter with... I know wattage rating is fine but do anybody know if starlink is sensitive enough to get pure since wave inverter?Quote from: Larry W - April 30, 2022, 02:26:26 pmIf I understand correctly, your LD has four deep cycle batteries, a 440-amp/hour battery pack.Why are you not using its large capacity and instead buying several small portable batteries when you have so much battery power already installed and paid for?Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #88 – April 30, 2022, 03:25:26 pm Quote from: hbn7hj - April 30, 2022, 01:21:18 pmNot important but your Starlink is the third generation. There were two versions of the round antenna.Oh … another reason to feel happy … you warned me to be ready for surprises, so far so good. Are you predicting any bump? This is really a frog leap in our life style and I am glad you shared information here.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #89 – April 30, 2022, 07:05:27 pm Quote from: Muhammad - April 30, 2022, 03:22:10 pm As for 440ah battery I have 88ah on regular basis (80% as per your directions and assuming solar generates enough to top off battery each day). Andy mentioned a pure sine wave converter Does anybody know if Starlink is sensitive enough to get pure sine wave inverter?If I said to keep the battery level always at or above 80% of capacity (20% Depth of Discharge), then I was wrong. You can use 50% of your capacity without excessive long-term damage. Your LD has 180-220-amp-hours of usable capacity.That should be enough capacity to last for a few cloudy days.Upgrading to a large converter(100+ amps) would greatly reduce the generator run time when needed. Your 440-amp hour battery can be charged at a much higher rate than what the Factory converter can provide.Most electronics are happier with a pure sine wave inverter, some electronics do not care, and others will not operate at all.Smaller pure-sine wave inverters have become more affordable in the last few years, it may be worthwhile upgrading.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Starlink Install Reply #90 – April 30, 2022, 08:43:56 pm Larry,As for converter, perhaps now I will appreciate an upgrade ... Is there any converter which easily fit in existing converter space? I know it is a tight space but if converter is the same size and same design perhaps it will be straight forward to replace it. I am finding YouTube to be a good teacher. As for 50%, I like it and as for who mentioned it, really does not matter. I do trust experts on this forum and perhaps person who mentioned is more conservative.As for inverter, we have solar at home and Starlink has no issue with pure sine inverter. I really do not want to collect more stuff then I really have to. In few days I will be receiving telescopic pole and clamps and will be working on creating a space for disk on RV. At that time perhaps I can see if existing inverter work in RV and if not I have seen pure sine inverter in Walmart and you are right electronics is not very expensive.Regards,
Re: Starlink Install Reply #91 – April 30, 2022, 08:57:57 pm Quote from: Andy Baird - April 27, 2022, 12:37:53 pm"I use a separate AC charger, 100-200 amps."I guess I missed the part where you informed Muhammad that in order for your "forget the alternator" statement to be true, he'd need to buy a separate 100-200 amp charger, wire it in, and use it for charging instead of his built-in converter.suggestion is to keep a separate charger next to existing charger (in MB, next to water pump)?As for wiring, any pointer to document? Hope there are just two wires from generator and two wires going to battery.I will not mind spending some extra money to save on labor and make it easier on me .... will it be easier to just take out existing charger and put a big charger and just move the connections from older charger to new one ... this is what I gather from from Larry's message.We will be leaving for a pretty long trip in about four weeks, there is no short trip before then .... If solution need any tricky installation I will not take the risk right now but will take notes and will execute in future.Regards,
Re: Starlink Install Reply #92 – May 01, 2022, 09:47:09 am Quote from: Muhammad - April 30, 2022, 08:57:57 pmsuggestion is to keep a separate charger next to existing charger (in MB, next to water pump)?As for wiring, any pointer to document? Hope there are just two wires from generator and two wires going to battery.I will not mind spending some extra money to save on labor and make it easier on me .... will it be easier to just take out existing charger and put a big charger and just move the connections from older charger to new one ... this is what I gather from from Larry's message.We will be leaving for a pretty long trip in about four weeks, there is no short trip before then .... If solution need any tricky installation I will not take the risk right now but will take notes and will execute in future.Regards,If you do not have a large lithium battery bank you don’t need a a large AC lithium charger.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #93 – May 01, 2022, 10:45:20 am Quote from: hbn7hj - May 01, 2022, 09:47:09 amIf you do not have a large lithium battery bank you don’t need a a large AC lithium charger.ThanksIn that case, I will wait till electric technology refresh time or perhaps use newly acquired knowledge to ask right question if we decide to upgrade, in any case thanks for educating me… now that I know we can discharge 40-50%, we will be fine with the additional load of Starlink. Not an emergency but whenever I get chance I will simply add more solars which will definitely help. We do not stay long at one place but trend is changing slowly and I see week+ stay at national parks. Although Ron mentioned DC-DC charger but I do notice batteries do get charged very fast during driving. We might already have DC-DC charger though not as high capacity as Ron suggested.
Re: Starlink Install Reply #94 – May 01, 2022, 12:15:49 pm Quote from: Muhammad - May 01, 2022, 10:45:20 am Although Ron mentioned DC-DC charger but I do notice batteries do get charged very fast during driving. We might already have DC-DC charger though not as high capacity as Ron suggested.The coach battery is charged when the engine is running, there is an isolation relay under the hood on the driver's side that connects the engine's alternator to the coach battery, when the engine is running.Larry
Re: Starlink Install Reply #95 – May 01, 2022, 02:42:49 pm Isolation relay is dc-dc charger? I think I understand reason for isolation but not sure what additional function dc-dc charge provide beside connecting coach battery with alternator/engine battery and perhaps right size fuse. Was Ron alluding to getting right size isolation relay to match bigger alternator?Thanks Larry. And last question, promise …Quote from: Larry W - May 01, 2022, 12:15:49 pmThe coach battery is charged when the engine is running, there is an isolation relay under the hood on the driver's side that connects the engine's alternator to the coach battery, when the engine is running.Larry
Re: Starlink Install Reply #96 – May 02, 2022, 04:49:54 am Hi Mohammed; The DC to DC converter I referred to is best used to pump watts into a LiFePO4 battery. If you have lead acid, that matches the chassis battery, so with the isolation relay connecting all of the batteries in parallel, (while the engine is running), then the charging profiles will match. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Starlink Install Reply #97 – May 02, 2022, 11:15:02 am In other words, the isolation relay is not a DC-to-DC charger. It's just a switch. 1 Likes
Re: Starlink Install Reply #98 – May 02, 2022, 02:20:38 pm Andy and Ron, thanks for educating me. Got it pretty well now.Not an emergency but as soon as I get the opportunity I will get additional solar on the roof. My power need, I think should be fulfilled by current setup and if not, I have enough knowledge to make the right decision.Regards
Re: Starlink Install Reply #99 – May 02, 2022, 04:56:48 pm Quote from: Andy Baird - May 02, 2022, 11:15:02 amIn other words, the isolation relay is not a DC-to-DC charger. It's just a switch.An LD with AGMs and an isolation relay will fully charge the battery, with enough drive time.A DC to DC charger is normally used with lithium batteries and will provide the proper voltage needed for a full charge. Without one, the alternator may not be able to fully charge a lithium house battery. Larry
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