Check Engine Light - P0191 April 16, 2022, 02:48:04 pm Hi Group,Mary and I are just a week into our new road trip. The other day, while driving I-5 toward Redding, me Check Engine light came on. This on our 2005 mid-bath, 92,000 miles. There was no seeming change in performance, no change in any of the gauges. I had gotten a half gallon of gas about 40 miles before, as we were leaving Lake Oroville.We pulled off the highway and went through whatever we could find about this. The light was steady, checked the gas cap. Sat for awhile, restarted. Nothing changed. From reading lots of posts on our forum here, it seem like continuing to drive would be ok. We drove to Redding and was able to get an appointment the next day at All Wheel Truck and RV.Testing revealed the P0191 code, but didn't point to anything specific, but did suggest a possible fuel pressure sensor, connector issues, or fuel pump. I know my rig is in the mileage zone for these thing failing. They reset the CEL, road tested several times - stopping and starting the engine in between. The light did not relight. Service guy said it was probably a progressive situation and said if/when it comes on again, to bring it in again for testing. We drove to Medford, OR, about 150 miles with no further issue.I assume it will come on again eventually, but I'm wondering if it makes sense to wait till that happens, or preemptively replace the fuel pump? I know it could be something else. I guess there is no telling when it could happen again, or if I will be able to get to a shop before it fully fails. Looking for a little advice.ThanksDavid G
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #1 – April 16, 2022, 04:02:59 pm Good luck with this David. I haven’t experienced any similar issues with my 2003 TK. A search on this forum shows the possibility of a weak fuel pump but other possibilities are mentioned as well. I look forward to learning more and I’m sure others with more experience will chime in.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #2 – April 16, 2022, 05:48:22 pm "...or preemptively replace the fuel pump?"If you are on your OEM fuel pump you are long overdue for a replacement. Common wisdom says 55,000 mi. is average for failure. My rig just recently turned 100K and I am on the 3rd pump, OEM + two. Don't rightly remember the mileages when they failed, first was in Lone Pine and second was near Eugene, OR. Had to be towed in both cases. It's a hefty job for a single person, better left to a shop that's done it before. At the time of repair you'd do well to replace the rubber fuel lines above the tank and the entire fuel line to the generator (as I did with stainless steel).
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #3 – April 16, 2022, 06:39:07 pm Thanks for the reply Steve.Did either of your failures give you any warning? Like check engine light with no obvious effect on the rig? Or was it just, bam, dead on the road? It seems to me the best course of action would be to get it done. The shop in Redding was great. They said they've done many of them - at about 6 hrs each.David
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #4 – April 16, 2022, 06:49:43 pm Check this thread if you haven't already:Have you experienced an E450 fuel pump failure?My bias would be to replace the fuel pump at a time of your choosing, as it's a known problem. I guess the 2005 fuel pump is a bit different than my 2003 though, and I don't have any experience with it. I used OEM motorcraft parts in my 2003, writing about the process here:Fuel Pump Replacement and Dropping Fuel TankRich
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #5 – April 16, 2022, 06:52:03 pm Quote from: 73gitane - April 16, 2022, 04:02:59 pmGood luck with this David. I haven’t experienced any similar issues with my 2003 TK. A search on this forum shows the possibility of a weak fuel pump but other possibilities are mentioned as well. I look forward to learning more and I’m sure others with more experience will chime in.SteveYes, Steve, that is why I am wondering if it would be best to let it happen again to see if there is a clearer indication of the problem - but I do not want to get stranded somewhere remote if it fails suddenly.David
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #6 – April 16, 2022, 07:17:05 pm Quote from: rich - April 16, 2022, 06:49:43 pmCheck this thread if you haven't already:Have you experienced an E450 fuel pump failure?My bias would be to replace the fuel pump at a time of your choosing, as it's a known problem. I guess the 2005 fuel pump is a bit different than my 2003 though, and I don't have any experience with it. I used OEM motorcraft parts in my 2003, writing about the process here:Fuel Pump Replacement and Dropping Fuel TankRichThanks for the link Rich. I think I did actually read this some time back, but it answers my questions. I'm now leaning heavily toward replacing it soon.David
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #7 – April 16, 2022, 07:29:29 pm Hi David; Quoting from a member of the Caravan Club, Bam! dead in line to get gas at a Costco. Twice! He had it replaced the first time and figured it was aggravated by start, move up a car length, start again, and so on. About three weeks later again in line at Costco to get gas, and same symptoms. Replaced again. While the cost of another pump was covered, the labor wasn't. Unfortunately I don't remember the brand of the first pump, although I think it was Motocraft. I also don't remember if his second was the same brand. RonB
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #8 – April 16, 2022, 09:52:56 pm "I am wondering if it would be best to let it happen again to see..."DavidWhile I did not have the 'Check Engine Light' on either instance there were indications... the first time, in Canada, I had just bought gas and as I drove down the road I experienced a stumbling or hesitation before it ran smoothly again. My thought was that the new gas may have been contaminated. Many weeks later in Lone Pine I had spent the weekend in a campground. On Monday morning I tried to start the engine. It would crank but not fire! Fortunately there was a heavy truck repair service just two miles down the road. I spent Monday night elevated on their outside lift while they had a new pump delivered from Reno, NV.The 2nd instance occurred on I-5 headed north toward Springfield/Eugene where I had an appointment with AM Solar. The symptoms were the same stumbling and hesitation just prior to total loss of power. I drifted over to the shoulder and waited for a tow. Wound up at a large and well equipped Ford dealer/service facility and they had me on my way by mid-afternoon the following day. That's the whole story!
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #9 – April 16, 2022, 11:16:51 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - April 16, 2022, 05:48:22 pmIf you are on your OEM fuel pump you are long overdue for a replacement. Common wisdom says 55,000 mi. is average for failure. My rig just recently turned 100K and I am on the 3rd pump, OEM + two.Wow, really bad luck, I think. I've put 190,000 miles on an E350 and 70,000 on an E450 Class Cs, no fuel pump failures.
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #10 – April 17, 2022, 02:31:13 am Hi Eric; Well one was a 2005 (Lazy Bones) and one was a 2005 (David's). What years were yours? I remember that Ford recalled some fuel pumps, but I believe those were early '90's. RonB (looking for a pattern here)
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #11 – April 17, 2022, 09:24:30 am With rvs....age is a.big factor.....along with mileage....replace now at your convience or it will happen on a holiday weekend, in the middle of no where, with parts not available due to pandemic issues etc......be smart.Murphy's Law seems to be stamped on everything rv related. 1 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #12 – April 17, 2022, 08:08:04 pm Thanks everyone for your thoughts. You've pushed me into doing what I really wanted to do in the first place. I've decided to get the job done asap. It does mean driving back to Redding (150 miles), and I'm sure I'll be paranoid about it the whole way. I could probably get the work done in the Metford area, but I was impressed with the shop in Redding, and they will let me stay there w/hook-ups for the work. David 2 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #13 – April 21, 2022, 10:28:14 am Just an update to say I returned to Redding to All Wheel Truck and RV Repair for the fuel pump replacement. First off, this was probably the best repair experience I've ever had. Over the Easter weekend, I decided I needed to get this done before it failed completely. I called Monday morning and though they were busy, told me to come in on Tuesday. From the start, Rob, my service advisor, took care of us. We were able to stay at the facility - with electric hook-up - for the 2 days it would take (diagnosing, getting parts, road testing, etc). He clearly stated what was to be done and how they would do it. I added a few other items to the list and they also did a complete inspection of the engine and coach. Everyone on staff, from mechanic to office personal, were friendly and helpful. Just sitting in the waiting area and listening how they dealt with calls and walk-ins - and each other, told me how much they respect their customers and their co-workers. On the way back to Redding on I-5 from Medford, on a steady incline about 15 miles from Redding, the check engine light came on again. Same deal as last time - no apparent change in performance. We got to the shop with no problems, but I felt pretty relieved and justified about coming in. It was the same code, but still no clear indication of a problem.The work was completed on-time and we are back on the road. Rob did say that he could not be certain that this was the entire problem, but there is no indication of anything else. Feeling much relieved - both emotionally and financially! He also mentioned if we were ever passing through and just wanted a place to overnight, to give them a call. They do this sort of thing all the time.Also while hanging around the shop, I got to talking with several other people waiting for service. One guy came down from Vancouver BC to get work done, another came from Vacaville for work. I even met a waitress at breakfast one morning who also takes her vehicles there for service. They all love this place. It was pretty amazing how many rigs came in during a typical day. I don't know how they get it all done. Yes, I do. They are good! They get my highest rating.Again, thanks group, for all the advise.David G.David 3 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #14 – April 21, 2022, 10:59:29 am Glad to hear you had a great experience. You might consider adding the shop to this thread, where we keep a list of reputable repair facilities. REPAIR, MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE FACILITIESRich 1 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #15 – April 21, 2022, 11:43:51 am Quote from: rich - April 21, 2022, 10:59:29 amGlad to hear you had a great experience. You might consider adding the shop to this thread, where we keep a list of reputable repair facilities. REPAIR, MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE FACILITIESRichWill do!David 1 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #16 – April 21, 2022, 12:05:39 pm Hi David G.I just saw your posting minutes ago. I was a bit puzzled by the fact you mentioned your 2005 MB was running smoothly while the check engine lit up and you could drive to the service facility without any hick up. This is inconsistent with the fuel pump failure. From my experience with Ford powertrains. The cause of the P0191 is more likely to be the intermittent trouble of the "fuel rail pressure sensor". This Ford sensor is a very fussy part and subject to some electrical interference in the vehicle system at high engine and fuel system temperatures. Once the engine and fuel system cools down the error signal may not appear until next time. If the problem reoccur after a long drive then the fuel rail pressure sensor must be the real criminal and would have to be replaced. I hope you will never see this trouble code again.For those gear headed Lazy Dazer like me, these two videos are helpful explaining the P0191 trouble code.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZDISymoLMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC0O1J4Am7E 1 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #17 – April 21, 2022, 12:46:17 pm There is also the Fuel Pump Drive Module that powers the pump, they can get corroded and become intermittent or stop providing power.Larry
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #18 – April 21, 2022, 01:20:03 pm Is the fuel rail sensor on the E450 easily accessible?
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #19 – April 21, 2022, 03:01:38 pm Quote from: HiLola - April 21, 2022, 01:20:03 pmIs the fuel rail sensor on the E450 easily accessible?It is easily accessible from the cabin side of the E450 engine compartment, hot air can trap there:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuMG6jcYWLEThe ugly side of this problem is the intermittent nature. To be safe, I rather replace this part for those early 2000s vehicle. 1 Likes
Re: Check Engine Light - P0191 Reply #20 – April 23, 2022, 06:43:09 pm Quote from: cli288 - April 21, 2022, 12:05:39 pmHi David G.I just saw your posting minutes ago. I was a bit puzzled by the fact you mentioned your 2005 MB was running smoothly while the check engine lit up and you could drive to the service facility without any hick up. This is inconsistent with the fuel pump failure. From my experience with Ford powertrains. The cause of the P0191 is more likely to be the intermittent trouble of the "fuel rail pressure sensor". This Ford sensor is a very fussy part and subject to some electrical interference in the vehicle system at high engine and fuel system temperatures. Once the engine and fuel system cools down the error signal may not appear until next time. If the problem reoccur after a long drive then the fuel rail pressure sensor must be the real criminal and would have to be replaced. I hope you will never see this trouble code again.For those gear headed Lazy Dazer like me, these two videos are helpful explaining the P0191 trouble code.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZDISymoLMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC0O1J4Am7EThank you for this valuable piece of advice. We've driven over 300 miles since the replacement with no further check light problem. This was over 3 mountain passes going from Redding to Coos Bay. I will definitely keep an eye on this and report back any further occurrences.
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