Starting the generator March 25, 2022, 01:04:44 pm From a cold start after not being ran for 30 days or so my generator takes about 3 tries to start.This also was the same with my 1995 TK.Just checking if this is "normal".I suspect it takes a few tries to get the fuel up to the generator.
Re: Starting the generator Reply #1 – March 25, 2022, 01:32:46 pm Most likely the fuel in the bowl has evaporated and it takes a few tries to get fuel back in the bowl.My motorcycle has that same issue, but I can turn the fuel petcock to the prime position and that helps get fuel into the bowl quicker. 2 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #2 – March 25, 2022, 01:48:07 pm Sounds about right. In cooler weather my routine 1X/month start is pretty consistently three, drops to two usually in warmer weather. Happy Trails!Matt 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #3 – March 25, 2022, 01:56:08 pm "Just checking if this is "normal"."On my '04 LD the 'gen. start switch' is a rocker... push upper end to start, push lower end to prime. A few seconds of prime before hitting start should fire it off almost every time. You can actually hear the pump run in the prime position (or at least I could when I had hearing). 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #4 – March 25, 2022, 04:06:30 pm A question about the priming but Lazy Bones may have answered it for me. When priming with the rocker switch, how long do you hold down the switch? Does it stop priming at some point (even though the switch is depressed)?
Re: Starting the generator Reply #5 – March 25, 2022, 04:21:53 pm Quote from: HiLola - March 25, 2022, 04:06:30 pmA question about the priming but Lazy Bones may have answered it for me. When priming with the rocker switch, how long do you hold down the switch? Does it stop priming at some point (even though the switch is depressed)? Hold the switch in the prime position until the light comes on. Our generator usually starts after the second priming.Make sure the altitude adjustment on the carburetor is set for where you are located.The fuel pump runs until it reaches a preset pressure, normally occurring when the float bowl is full and the float's inlet valve shuts. As the generator runs and fuel, is used, the carburetor's float drops and opens in the float's valve. When the float valve opens, the fuel pressure drops, causing the electric fuel pump to turn on and run until the float bowl is full again.The fuel pump turns on and off repeatedly as the generator runs. Larry
Re: Starting the generator Reply #6 – March 25, 2022, 04:22:21 pm I prime holding the rocker switch down until the green light comes on; takes about 3-5 seconds. The press the switch up to start the generator.
Re: Starting the generator Reply #7 – March 25, 2022, 04:28:25 pm Thanks, Larry and Joan, wasn't sure on that. It usually takes 2-3 times to start mine as well.
Re: Starting the generator Reply #8 – March 25, 2022, 07:14:34 pm Quote from: Joan - March 25, 2022, 04:22:21 pmI prime holding the rocker switch down until the green light comes on; takes about 3-5 seconds. The press the switch up to start the generator. It took me 10 years to figure that out. 🙄Chris 2 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #9 – March 26, 2022, 01:28:10 am Quote from: Chris Horst - March 25, 2022, 07:14:34 pmIt took me 10 years to figure that out. 🙄ChrisA person learns a lot by reading from this group. I don't even own one yet. 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #10 – March 26, 2022, 01:50:49 am Quote from: Joan - March 25, 2022, 04:22:21 pmI prime holding the rocker switch down until the green light comes on; takes about 3-5 seconds. The press the switch up to start the generator. I don't think my 2021 has this but to be honest I haven't read the generator section in the manual as close as I should. My 1995 TK didn't have that feature.
Re: Starting the generator Reply #11 – March 26, 2022, 11:01:28 am Quote from: tedeboy - March 26, 2022, 01:50:49 amI don't think my 2021 has this but to be honest I haven't read the generator section in the manual as close as I should. My 1995 TK didn't have that feature.Ted,Yep our 2021's do have this, but the light comes on at about 2 seconds. I also usually crank around 3 times to start. Last time I primed a bit longer and it started on the first try.I just went to a class put on by Onan while at the FMCA rally. They said prime 15-20 seconds and you can't flood it because it has something that stops the priming when it has enough. Then crank up to 20 seconds at a time with 2 minutes between the cranks.They recommend exercising 2 hours every month with 50% load (the AC or a space heater). Start the gen, wait about a minute, then apply the load. At the end remove the load and let it run on idle for 3-5 minutes to cool down. It can be accomplished while driving, especially in hot weather to keep the house cool. 3 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #12 – March 26, 2022, 11:19:17 am Quote from: Linda B - March 26, 2022, 11:01:28 amTed,Yep our 2021's do have this, but the light comes on at about 2 seconds. I also usually crank around 3 times to start. Last time I primed a bit longer and it started on the first try.I just went to a class put on by Onan while at the FMCA rally. They said prime 15-20 seconds and you can't flood it because it has something that stops the priming when it has enough. Then crank up to 20 seconds at a time with 2 minutes between the cranks.They recommend exercising 2 hours every month with 50% load (the AC or a space heater). Start the gen, wait about a minute, then apply the load. At the end remove the load and let it run on idle for 3-5 minutes to cool down. It can be accomplished while driving, especially in hot weather to keep the house cool.Great info. Thanks
Re: Starting the generator Reply #13 – March 26, 2022, 12:09:35 pm I find that adding seafoam to fuel helps keep the carb and bowl clean of ethanol film/deposits. Allows the generator to start easier. If you leave old fuel in tank for long periods of not using rv then i recomend a fuel stabilizer. No small engine will start and run well on stale fuel. Best price on seafoam can be found at walmart. 16oz and 20oz cans. Usually 7 to 11 dollars. Do not use walmart brand....noticed a difference in my nissan when i tried a can. So dont cheap out...buy the seafoam brand. 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #14 – March 26, 2022, 12:20:03 pm Quote from: Franram - March 26, 2022, 12:09:35 pmI find that adding seafoam to fuel helps keep the carb and bowl clean of ethanol film/deposits. Allows the generator to start easier. If you leave old fuel in tank for long periods of not using rv then i recomend a fuel stabilizer. No small engine will start and run well on stale fuel. Best price on seafoam can be found at walmart. 16oz and 20oz cans. Usually 7 to 11 dollars. Do not use walmart brand....noticed a difference in my nissan when i tried a can. So dont cheap out...buy the seafoam brand. What's considered "old gas"?Thanks
Re: Starting the generator Reply #15 – March 26, 2022, 09:22:46 pm I could not find any information provided by the company on Seafoam's site that Seafoam was useful in curing any varnish or gum problems caused by ethanol. I did find a company comment that it's the petroleum portion, not the ethanol, that causes film and deposits, and that Seafoam would still be useful in removing these films/deposits, even in the presence of ethanol. Here's the answer to the customers question: "Does Sea Foam Motor Treatment have the stability properties to protect a stored engine from ethanol gunk build up?""I think our quick answer is yes, but how about this answer?: The idea to ‘stabilize’ fuel is to prevent fuel molecules from becoming ‘unstable’. In fuel blended with ethyl alcohol (ethanol), it’s only the petroleum molecules that become unstable when exposed to oxygen. Unstable petroleum molecules turn to heavier gum that suspends in the liquid fuel. Gum in fuel begets sticky varnish residues that allow unburned carbon ash to build and form harmful engine deposits. Ultimately, Sea Foam in fuel will not allow gums to form, heading off the entire chain of problems. It also doesn’t matter whether ethanol or non-ethanol; all types and quality grades of gasoline can become unstable and turn to ‘gunk’."Other information on their site indicates it's the materials used in older (like 30 years ago) engines that are adversely affected by ethanol, and engines designed to run it, like the Ford V10, don't have any component or film, varnish, gum, etc problems. As an illustration, I drove my 1998 Class C E350 entirely on ethanol blended fuel for 180,000 miles, with no engine problems. No additives at all, just 87 octane fuel at whatever gas station that was cheapest when I needed gas. The generator also ran on the same fuel, of course, and it never had an fuel related problems.It's my belief ethanol compatibility problems were understood and solved several decades ago, and my experience with our motorhomes and cars doesn't suggest otherwise. 3 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #16 – March 27, 2022, 04:20:28 pm I put a fuel shut off valve on the gas line and shut it off without turning off the gen so it essenstially shuts off the gen because it’s out of fuel and ensures no fuel in the carb bowl. It is also recommended to hold down the prime button for about 10 seconds according to Cummins. The issue I’m currently having is my gen has been surging after being on for about 45 mins. Can’t figure out if I need to replace the fuel pump and filter or the carb. 3 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #17 – March 27, 2022, 05:41:45 pm Quote from: brewersarcade - March 27, 2022, 04:20:28 pmI put a fuel shut off valve on the gas line and shut it off without turning off the gen so it essenstially shuts off the gen because it’s out of fuel and ensures no fuel in the carb bowl. It is also recommended to hold down the prime button for about 10 seconds according to Cummins. The issue I’m currently having is my gen has been surging after being on for about 45 mins. Can’t figure out if I need to replace the fuel pump and filter or the carb. Joe, can you share with us why you put the shut off valve on the fuel line?Chris
Re: Starting the generator Reply #18 – March 27, 2022, 10:58:47 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - March 27, 2022, 05:41:45 pmJoe, can you share with us why you put the shut off valve on the fuel line?ChrisShutting off the fuel line valve and letting the generator keeping running until it “runs out of gas” prevents any residual gas from sitting in the carb bowl. In theory, helping to prevent old gas from sitting in the carb and gumming things up. 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #19 – March 27, 2022, 11:04:23 pm Quote from: brewersarcade - March 27, 2022, 10:58:47 pmShutting off the fuel line valve and letting the generator keeping running until it “runs out of gas” prevents any residual gas from sitting in the carb bowl. In theory, helping to prevent old gas from sitting in the carb and gumming things up. Isn't that one of the reasons why Onan recommends running the generator 2 hours per month? To prevent this?
Re: Starting the generator Reply #20 – March 28, 2022, 12:06:29 am Hi Joe; my first thought was that your converter was out of bulk charging and into absorption stage. Switching the load on and off going into float. The load switching on and off can make the speed governor seem erratic when it is just slower at adjusting the speed. The mechanical linkage could just need a little cleaning. It is external, and can pick up grease and dirt. I did find this youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph_C6XF2TCU with Jeff Berry. It was hard for me to hear him, but he took the solenoid valve out of the bottom of the float bowl to clean some metering jet. This was to fix a surging problem he had. The same Onan MicroQuiet generator you have. I have the older Emerald II. I hope this helps. For Ted, yes maintenance runs prevent old gas from evaporating and leaving deposits in the carburetor. It also exercises the engine, and keeps the rotor/stator clearances from rusting shut. It also spreads oil around inside the engine, and hopefully dispels any moisture that has collected inside. Two hours may be overdoing that a bit if you are running a load like the A/C. In dry San Diego, I run about a half hour every few months. More if it is cold and damp, like tomorrow! RonB
Re: Starting the generator Reply #21 – March 28, 2022, 01:46:06 am Quote from: brewersarcade - March 27, 2022, 10:58:47 pmShutting off the fuel line valve and letting the generator keep running until it “runs out of gas” prevents any residual gas from sitting in the carb bowl. In theory, helping to prevent old gas from sitting in the carb and gumming things up.If you are running the generator once a month, it is not necessary to run the float bowl dry. It's a good idea to run the bowl dry if storing your LD for a long period, say for several months. When doing the monthly, at-home generator run, in the summer turn the rooftop A/C on, in the winter, run two electric heaters. Generators need a heavy load to adequately heat the engine's oil and the generator's armature to drive out any accumulated moisture. Moisture, over time, can destroy the armature's wiring insulation and can lead to an extremely expensive repair. The colder the weather, the longer the maintenance run time. In our mild SoCal climate, 45 minutes is more than adequate, in artic conditions, it could take two or three hours to get things hot enough.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #22 – March 28, 2022, 08:55:06 am Quote from: RonB - March 28, 2022, 12:06:29 amHi Joe; my first thought was that your converter was out of bulk charging and into absorption stage. Switching the load on and off going into float. The load switching on and off can make the speed governor seem erratic when it is just slower at adjusting the speed. The mechanical linkage could just need a little cleaning. It is external, and can pick up grease and dirt. I did find this youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph_C6XF2TCU with Jeff Berry. It was hard for me to hear him, but he took the solenoid valve out of the bottom of the float bowl to clean some metering jet. This was to fix a surging problem he had. The same Onan MicroQuiet generator you have. I have the older Emerald II. I hope this helps. For Ted, yes maintenance runs prevent old gas from evaporating and leaving deposits in the carburetor. It also exercises the engine, and keeps the rotor/stator clearances from rusting shut. It also spreads oil around inside the engine, and hopefully dispels any moisture that has collected inside. Two hours may be overdoing that a bit if you are running a load like the A/C. In dry San Diego, I run about a half hour every few months. More if it is cold and damp, like tomorrow! RonBThanks for the intel on this. I'll look into this video for sure. While we were on our roadtrip last summer in the midwest, I had such weird issues with the generator. It would run great for 4-5 hours and then randomly start surging even though the load was staying constant (AC running). I've also read that you should a tad less oil than recommended because has it heats up it ends up being to much oil and can cause shutdown.And to clarify, I exercise my generator per schedule. The fuel shut off is extra piece of mind because with fuel being at least 10% ethanol it can degrade fairly quickly and bog things down from the research I found. It certainly gives me a little peace of mind knowing theres no residual fuel sitting in the carb bowl. The modification of adding the fuel shut off costs about $10 in parts off Amazon and about 20 mins of my time to do.
Re: Starting the generator Reply #23 – March 28, 2022, 12:53:10 pm "with fuel being at least 10% ethanol it can degrade fairly quickly and bog things down..."As Eric pointed out, Sea Foam says:"In fuel blended with ethyl alcohol (ethanol), it’s only the petroleum molecules that become unstable when exposed to oxygen."In other words, ethanol has no effect on gum buildup. Since preventing gum buildup is Sea Foam's entire business, I'd expect them to know what they're talking about. 1 Likes
Re: Starting the generator Reply #24 – March 28, 2022, 07:01:55 pm Quote from: Andy Baird - March 28, 2022, 12:53:10 pm"with fuel being at least 10% ethanol it can degrade fairly quickly and bog things down..."As Eric pointed out, Sea Foam says:"In fuel blended with ethyl alcohol (ethanol), it’s only the petroleum molecules that become unstable when exposed to oxygen."In other words, ethanol has no effect on gum buildup. Since preventing gum buildup is Sea Foam's entire business, I'd expect them to know what they're talking about.Sometimes I feel as though the “veterans” here like to argue just for the sake of arguing. Is fuel shut off a bad idea to you? Ethanol certainly affects engine build up. I’ve used Seafoam many a time including trying to fix my surging issue with minimal effect.
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