LED Tail Lights July 30, 2021, 02:46:25 pm I didn't want to hijack the 7 pin trailer connector discussion. It was mentioned in that thread that you can install LED bulbs in place of the incandescent tail amps without adding relays or converter packs.Does this mean it is as simple as replacing the bulbs without changing anything else? I would like to convert to LEDs but did not want to replace the rear light buckets or work with the wiring. What about the need to change the turn signal relay on our 2003 E450?Thanks for any clarity one can provide.Steve K. 1 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #1 – July 30, 2021, 06:08:52 pm Hi Steve K; The Ford turn signal relay is load dependent as supplied, in a 2003. You need to go to a fixed flash rate relay. You just unplug the one you have and plug in the new one. 3 pins, only goes in one way. Some people have a problem with the cruise control sensing the brake being depressed, because there isn't as much load. I never had that problem. Replacing the light bulbs with an LED bulb may not yield enough brightness. The LED's on the bulb point to the side instead of behind, so the fixture as LD provided is unfriendly to upfitting to LED. The electronic flasher: Amazon.com: Grote 44892 3 Pin Flasher (North American (JSO) Pinout): Automotive There are other relays available for less $, but I haven't tested them. RonB 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #2 – July 30, 2021, 06:38:21 pm Thanks Ron. If I understand correctly, the main reason people switch to LED tail lamps is because they are brighter than the incandescent bulbs. But just replacing the bulbs with LED bulbs may not be bright enough due to the direction they face? Thanks for the explanation. This may be a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.Steve K. 1 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #3 – July 30, 2021, 07:10:25 pm Quote from: Steve K. - July 30, 2021, 06:38:21 pmIf I understand correctly, the main reason people switch to LED tail lamps is because they are brighter than incandescent bulbs. But just replacing the bulbs with LED bulbs may not be bright enough due to the direction they face? That is one reason, the other is the reduced power they use, allowing older (pre-20040 LDs to power their toad's taillights without using relays.Modern LEDs can use a wider range of voltage than incandescents without dimming, due to their electronic power supply.LED replacement bulbs come in many styles, with the LEDs pointed in different directions, you may find one that works fine with the stock taillight housing.Changing to LED housings isn't a super difficult project, other than dealing with the short Factory wiring.Do try replacing the toad's taillights with LEDs, it might reduce the power consumption enough to eliminate any relays. LEDs eliminated having to use relays in our 2003 LD.These are the LED bulbs used in my Cherokee's taillights.Amazon.com: ALOPEE - 2-Pack 1156 BA15S 1141 1003 7506 1073 Extremely Bright...When converting an LD to LEDs taillights, use an electronic flasher to maintain normal flashing rates.Amazon.com: Grote 44892 3 Pin Flasher (North American (JSO) Pinout): AutomotiveLarry 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #4 – July 30, 2021, 07:52:35 pm While you're replacing lamps, take a look at the insides of the housings. The ones on my red-and-maroon 2003 midbath were painted dark maroon inside. That had to have cut way down on the reflected light, and hence the brightness of the taillights. I lined them with aluminum foil. Big improvement! 1 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #5 – July 30, 2021, 09:30:30 pm Quote from: Steve K. - July 30, 2021, 06:38:21 pmIf I understand correctly, the main reason people switch to LED tail lamps is because they are brighter than incandescent bulbs. But just replacing the bulbs with LED bulbs may not be bright enough due to the direction they face? That is one reason, the other is the reduced power they use, allowing older (pre-2004) LDs to power their toad's taillights without using relaysModern LEDs can use a wider range of voltage than incandescents without dimming, due to their electronic power supply.LED replacement bulbs come in many styles, with the LEDs pointed in different directions, you may find one that works fine with the stock taillight housing.Do try replacing the toad's taillights with LEDs, it might reduce the power consumption enough to eliminate any relays. LEDs eliminated having to use relays in our 2003.Larry
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #6 – July 31, 2021, 04:16:07 am Hi Steve; The reason LED tail lights are chosen is they use less power. They are brighter, come on instantly and go off instantly. Microseconds instead of seconds. They last longer and are more reliable. The current demands are less, so they don't stress the switch gear as badly. (sockets, wiring, blinker, switch stalk, fuses and alternator) If there should be some roadside emergency and you need your hazard lights on, maybe hours, without the engine capable of recharging the chassis battery; then the lower power demand will keep your lights brighter. (BTDT) The power demand is lower, not as much voltage is dropped in the wiring and switches, so there is more light when you need it. Replacing the front turn signals with amber LED lights will free up more power all around. Brake light/turn signal and night running light : 1157 LED Bulb - Dual Function 27 SMD LED Tower - BAY15D Bulb | Super Bright LEDs (These bulbs use the present sockets, no alterations needed yet) and front turn/running light: This will fit in the same space as the incandescent bulb...1157 LED Bulb - Dual Function 27 SMD LED Tower - BAY15D Bulb | Super Bright LEDs As Andy said, the inside of the bulb can is painted your rig color, but it should be white, or reflective. A disk of mirror material would reflect more light in the direction of the driver behind you eyesight, which is what matters. Amazon.com : AcrylicBlank Acrylic Silver Mirror Circle Disc Round (1/8"... Personally the proper tail lights were a bit of work to mount but the results were very professional looking and a modern choice to update an older rigs safety. Round LED Truck and Trailer Lights - 4" LED Brake/Turn/Tail Lights w/... in addition you need the three pin connector, and you need to cut a hole in the fiberglass can shape at the top for the connector. Steve your MidBath already has an access panel in the driver side rear compartment, to easily get to the necessary wiring. (replace the license plate lights too while you are in there. 1-1/2†Round LED License Plate Light - Chrome Housing - Pigtail Connection |... You can easily add an access panel inside the back passenger side compartment also. RonB 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #7 – July 31, 2021, 06:54:34 am Andy, Larry, & Ron, thanks for the information and Ron, a big thanks for the specific product recommendations. Those will be very helpful IF I ever decide to make the modifications.I must be one lazy guy since our 2003 remains almost 100% pure stock. I admire how some of you start making modifications the minute you return home; heck, I cringed when I installed the Seelevel tank monitoring system. 😁Thanks again guys,Steve K. 3 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #8 – July 31, 2021, 12:27:06 pm Hi Steve K., and others reading this who haven't changed to LED lights yet; If you can change tail light bulbs, you can install these. When I got my Tracker, the bulbs hardly worked. There was so much dirt inside the bulb housing, it was a wonder any light got out. Washing the housing and putting in new incandescent bulbs did wonders. Similarly the 'truck' lights Lazy Daze used back then, are not dirt tight. Taking out the retainer ring will allow you to clean it all. 3M 5200 FC will stick the mirror mentioned, to the inside of the metal can, and the LED bulbs will update your 'look'. You'll need a Torx (4 mm.?) to remove/replace, clean the front housings for turn signals, and put in the amber LED bulbs. The outside patio light should have been replaced years ago with LED. Along with interior LED 'ified florescent tubes and LED ceiling fixtures. It is almost like upgrading your batteries from T-105's to T-145's. If you use the TV at all, It should be an LCD LED backlight, 24" and HDTV $100! Better reliability, less power usage. (I'll bet you already upgraded that). The flasher relay is located near the base of the steering wheel about the firewall. There may be a black plastic cover. The flasher itself is on a metal bracket. I don't remember the details, it has been awhile. RonB 2 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #9 – March 06, 2022, 06:40:00 pm Hi Everyone,I've decided to start the exterior LED conversion as I'm waiting on supplies to reseal my end caps and windows (which is #1 in the priority list for our new-to-us 2003 RB). I've read many comments on here from others who have gone this route or at least considering it, and based my options on others' experiences (so Thank You!). As it's a RB, I was hoping to not have to replace the tail light cans, and based on these results, I don't think I will have to (unless something bad happens). Just handled the rear lights today. Easy peasy. Waiting for amazon to send me the foil tape to put in the back of my green-painted cans (what were they thinking?), so the results are more impressive than I'd even hoped. The tail lights were a HUGE improvement, purchased from Lasfit.com as I've had great luck with them on two of my other vehicles, and they have a great contrast between dim/running and bright/signal & brake). So far (only doing the rear lights), I have not needed to install the new flasher that I have on hand -- ***EDIT: they hyperflash, found that out when I went back to the RV after sunset to recheck everything, and I WILL need to use the new flasher) -- Also, if these are left on for a very long period of time, they will hyperflash due to heat as a protective measure -- depends on ambient temp. Has not been a problem for me on the two other vehicles I have these installed, others may disagree. Here's the Lasfit.com link for the tail lights (I have no direct or indirect relationship with this company, other than as a customer, and not sure if I'm allowed to post the link):1157 2057 CANBUS Error Free LED Turn Signal Light Bulb | Brillian RedThe Reverse lights (from SuperBright LEDs -- wanted to try out that company) did NOT make a significant improvement and are marginally worse than the 19-year-old incandescents. I think you can see that in the second picture I posted. These are the ones I ordered: 1157-NW27-T-2PK: Natural White - 2 Pack. I don't like them. I also ordered Stainless trim rings for the lights from SuperBright LEDs, which was the result of me not reading the posts more carefully -- can't replace those without changing out the cans -- they seem to be one piece. Hope they'll let me return them, but it's my mistake. RV was at the covered storage when I ordered, and I should have verified first. PICTURES: Passenger side is LED after install (No foil backing put in the cans yet), Driver side is incandescent. Thanks againJason 4 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #10 – March 06, 2022, 06:59:50 pm I made this upgrade over the winter, adding foil tape to the light cavities and switching to the bulbs recommended in post #3 of this thread. I used this flasher Amazon.com: Dewhel 1 pc CF-13 CF13 EP34 3 Pin Electronic Flasher Fix 12V...Huge improvement, easy to do, and very few tools needed. I did it at a campground in about an hour. Rich 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #11 – March 06, 2022, 09:09:40 pm Quote from: SRQG8 - March 06, 2022, 06:40:00 pmThe Reverse lights (from SuperBright LEDs -- wanted to try out that company) did NOT make a significant improvement and are marginally worse than the 19-year-old incandescents. I think you can see that in the second picture I posted. These are the ones I ordered: 1157-NW27-T-2PK: Natural White - 2 Pack. I don't like them.Hi Jason,Nice job and congratulations on completing the upgrade to all rear LED lights. My LD came with rear LEDs and I just finished upgrading my 96 Jeep Cherokee toad to all LEDs. Wow, what a difference it made. I used SuperBright LEDs and found that the Cool 6200K bulb worked much better than the Natural 4000K bulb for the backup lights. I don’t backup that often (unhitched) but I wanted the brightness bulb I could when backing up. I also found that using Red LED bulbs behind the Jeep’s red tail/stop plastic lens and using Amber LED bulbs behind the Jeep’s amber turn signal plastic lens made a huge difference too. I always tow the Jeep and I feel much safer now having bright LEDs alerting any approaching vehicle.- John 2 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #12 – March 07, 2022, 12:00:42 pm Hi SRQG8; Those CAN bulbs are an expensive solution for a problem you don't have. Your 2003 doesn't have computer driven tail light bulbs. CANBUS was a way to reduce the weight of wiring, by having a Computer Area Network drive the bulbs wherever they are all connected to a positive lead. The proper flasher for a direct replacement is a Grote Amazon.com: Grote 44892 3 Pin Flasher (North American (JSO) Pinout) : Automotive I found SuperbrightLeds.com to be easiest to use. The standard 4" size makes it easy to replace the metal cans you have in your fiberglass end cap. There is a molded in indent in the fiberglass for each bulb housing. I did have to cut holes in the fiberglass to extend the connector just a half inch behind each bulb. Round LED Truck and Trailer Lights w/ Reflector - 4" LED Brake/Turn/Tail... These apparently have reflectorized areas around the LED's, so are better seen by drivers behind you even when they aren't on. RonB As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #13 – March 07, 2022, 04:06:56 pm Quote from: RonB - March 07, 2022, 12:00:42 pmHi SRQG8; Those CAN bulbs are an expensive solution for a problem you don't have. Your 2003 doesn't have computer driven tail light bulbs. CANBUS was a way to reduce the weight of wiring, by having a Computer Area Network drive the bulbs wherever they are all connected to a positive lead. The proper flasher for a direct replacement is a Grote Amazon.com: Grote 44892 3 Pin Flasher (North American (JSO) Pinout) : Automotive RonBYes sir. I knew this Ford doesn't require built-in CANBUS bulbs, but bought those ones I listed because I've used them on 2 of my other vehicles (which are newer and required this type of tech in the bulb) and thus I knew the long-term quality/reliability and that I would be happy with both the maximum brightness and the dim/bright contrast. And they gave me a steep "repeat customer" discount. As John mentioned, I might try to switch out the reverse bulbs from SuperBright with the 6200K bulbs SuperBright sells. Before I even bought any bulbs, I ordered the flasher that you recommended, so thank you for that link! You made it easy to have the right part on hand and it connects and works exactly as you described.I've saved the great info you provided in case I ever need to fully upgrade to the LED truck/trailer lights, but am afraid of getting into a jam on the passenger side of my RB. As I get more comfortable with this rig, all that might change but that will be after the looooong list of preventative maintenance items I have to complete.I replaced the headlamp assemblies today with new OEM (along with VLEDs bulbs) and installed the LED front turn bulbs. Have the license plate lights from SuperBright ready to go in, and then it's on to the marker lights (not quite sure what to do about that). Most of them are functioning, so it's not quite the safety issue the brake and turn signals were. Thanks again,Jason As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #14 – March 08, 2022, 10:18:51 am Hi Jason. You can get 'itty bitty' LED white (maybe in red and amber) bulb replacements for the side marker and clearance lights. #194 I believe. They are more of a reliability from burning out thing. Not a brightness issue. RonB 1 Likes
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #15 – March 08, 2022, 11:04:00 am Quote from: RonB - March 08, 2022, 10:18:51 amHi Jason. You can get 'itty bitty' LED white (maybe in red and amber) bulb replacements for the side marker and clearance lights. #194 I believe. They are more of a reliability from burning out thing. Not a brightness issue. RonBI used the SuperBright #194 LEDs for all of the side marker lights. And yes, they come in colors too… red and amber in my case. You should be aware that they are polarized, meaning they will only work if inserted one way. Check that the LED works before reassembling the fixture. If it doesn’t light up, then remove the LED, flip it over and reinsert it in the socket. I did find that they are pretty bright for side markers but not so much for illuminating the license plate. The Jeep license plate calls for a #168 but it was out of stock and the #194 is supposed to be a direct replacement. I’m not real happy with the dim license plate illumination but it does satisfy the legal requirement.- John
Re: LED Tail Lights Reply #16 – March 08, 2022, 01:09:44 pm Thank you Ron and John!Do 194s work for the roof marker lights too?Jason
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