Cold Weather Camping January 02, 2022, 09:53:44 pm I'm currently in Deming, New Mexico at an RV park with full hook-ups. The nights are colder recently with lows in the high teens/low twenties. This is going to be the "drill" for the next few days. I've put reflextix in all of the windows, and closed off the cab with a heavy comforter and black-out curtains. I'm using a Lasko heater (electric) for warmth and it's working fairly well. I've disconnected from the water line and my water holding tank is empty. (I use three gallon water jugs for drinking water.) If I need to wash dishes I hook it up during the day when the temperature is warmer. I put some RV antifreeze in my black and grey tanks to prevent freezing. I'm thinking I should be OK, but should I also run the RV furnace (on low) to keep everything warmer?At night I put the heater in the rear area of the mid-bath where I'm sleeping and close the accordian door to keep it warmer. So far, so good as they say. Any suggestions? 2 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #1 – January 02, 2022, 10:52:57 pm Any suggestions?Cheryl, move to a warmer location! 😉😎
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #2 – January 02, 2022, 11:55:56 pm Did you drain your hot water heater as well? If not you might want to turn it on.John F
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #3 – January 03, 2022, 12:08:04 am It's not so much about keeping yourself warm as keeping the coach water and sewage systems working. It's important to know where the water pipes run in your coach, from the water tank to the toilet, sinks and shower. Then you want to try to assure that warm air gets to those spots.The blanket between the coach and cab is a good first step. Make sure not to leave anything in the cab that can experience freeze damage. But I'm not so sure I'd use the doors to isolate the front part of the coach from the rear. I think you want heated air to circulate around the entire inside of the coach, since you'll want to be warm in back but the bath and kitchen are where the plumbing is. You might want to place the electric heater where it benefits both front and back.Another trick is to open lower cabinet doors a bit to allow warm air to circulate into recesses in the cabinets where plumbing might be located. Leave the shower open to the interior too, at least a bit.Generally speaking I think if you're reasonably comfortable then the coach will probably be OK. But if your electric heater isn't enough then you might need to augment it. Some LD air conditioners have what's called a heat strip, but it was optional so I don't know if yours would have one. Your AC control should have a setting labeled something like OPT HEAT. Try turning that on and see if it works and eventually produces heat (set the AC temperature control to its warmest setting, though I'm not sure it affects the heat strip). It won't be high heat and will take some time to have an effect, but eventually works well, if you have it. You could always purchase a second electric heater and run two, one in the front area of the coach, one in the back. Simple electric heaters are cheap. Deming should have a hardware store that likely sells those, if not a Walmart or similar.I would make the forced air furnace a last resort as it will deplete your propane supply. If you do run it, try it on the lowest temp setting, so that it cycles only when the coach gets colder. If your propane tank is full though, and this cold weather will only last a few days and you can easily get propane refilled, running the furnace more would be OK. It's safe to run an electric heater, the heat strip in the AC and your furnace while you sleep, but not a catalytic heater or a portable propane heater.Rather than hooking up to city water with a hose to the spigot at your site I'd get my water from the onboard water tank and pump. The tank is located within the walls of the coach and shouldn't be a freezing risk if you're comfortable in the coach. And as John said, leave the water heater on.As to the gray and black tanks, their contents may well freeze, but that is unlikely to damage anything as there is room within them for the liquids to expand if and when they freeze. And liquids draining into the tank should be warm enough to make it to the tank before freezing. The problem will come when you dump, as the valves might be frozen, along with the pipes leading from the tanks to the valve(s). I've had success with dumping a couple of gallons of hot water into the toilet and then the shower or sinks immediately before dumping, but there is no guarantee that will work to allow you to empty your tanks. Another option is to place a heat source under the tanks, plugged into the 120 volt outlet on your site's power pedestal. Of course using the park's rest rooms is an alternative to reduce the amount of liquids going into the tanks and the need to dump.Don't forget the Ford heater as a last resort, especially to help warm the coach for a short period of time, say first thing in the morning. Start the engine, turn the heater on full blast, raise that blanket dividing the cab from the coach, perhaps for 45 minutes or so.We don't actually have that much experience with the LD in extreme cold, trying to avoid temps below 20. So others may have better or conflicting advice. Good luck. 4 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #4 – January 03, 2022, 07:17:47 am The forecast temps in Deming are no reason for alarm. I would continue using the water tank. If it gets below 20 then you might get some slushy water in the storage tanks. More water in the tanks is better than little water to prevent freezing.Be sure the Ford air vent is closed. Turn to off while the engine is running. 2 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #5 – January 03, 2022, 10:33:01 am Quote from: desertdivanm - January 02, 2022, 09:53:44 pmAny suggestions?Fill your water tank and work off that...it's not going to freeze with the temperatures you're talking about. That means you can use everything as you normally do (including the toilet and sinks) except you'll be using the water pump to supply water and not the hose connected to a faucet. 3 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #6 – January 03, 2022, 11:01:16 am Quote from: HiLola - January 02, 2022, 10:52:57 pmAny suggestions?Cheryl, move to a warmer location! 😉😎Trust me, I'm heading to Quartzsite in a few days and then on to Puerto Penasco. However, for now I'm testing my "pioneer abilities!' 2 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #7 – January 03, 2022, 11:04:39 am Quote from: Don Malpas - January 03, 2022, 07:17:47 amBe sure the Ford air vent is closed. Turn to off while the engine is running.Good to know - thanks @Don Malpas ...
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #8 – January 03, 2022, 11:13:31 am "And as John said, leave the water heater on."I'm not so sure this is necessary! Water heater tanks hold their temperature quite well. If you bring it to full temp in the morning and again at night before bed it should do well and will not needlessly use propane. I have gotten in the habit of doing that routinely, regardless of the weather. A partially warm tank does not take as long to come to full temp using that method.Otherwise you've gotten some good advice, go for it. 1 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #9 – January 03, 2022, 11:24:24 am Quote from: Terry Burnes - January 03, 2022, 12:08:04 amGenerally speaking I think if you're reasonably comfortable then the coach will probably be OK. But if your electric heater isn't enough then you might need to augment it. Some LD air conditioners have what's called a heat strip, but it was optional so I don't know if yours would have one. Your AC control should have a setting labeled something like OPT HEAT. Try turning that on and see if it works and eventually produces heat (set the AC temperature control to its warmest setting, though I'm not sure it affects the heat strip). It won't be high heat and will take some time to have an effect, but eventually works well, if you have it. Yippee, I have that control option called OPT-HEAT! You could always purchase a second electric heater and run two, one in the front area of the coach, one in the back. Simple electric heaters are cheap. Deming should have a hardware store that likely sells those, if not a Walmart or similar.Actually, I have a second heater onboard, but don't want to overload the electrical circuit. Rather than hooking up to city water with a hose to the spigot at your site I'd get my water from the onboard water tank and pump. The tank is located within the walls of the coach and shouldn't be a freezing risk if you're comfortable in the coach. And as John said, leave the water heater on.Thanks, good information to know...As to the gray and black tanks, their contents may well freeze, but that is unlikely to damage anything as there is room within them for the liquids to expand if and when they freeze. And liquids draining into the tank should be warm enough to make it to the tank before freezing. The problem will come when you dump, as the valves might be frozen, along with the pipes leading from the tanks I did put some RV anti-freeze down the toilet and sinks, and I'll wait for a warm(er) day before I dump my tanks.We don't actually have that much experience with the LD in extreme cold, trying to avoid temps below 20. So others may have better or conflicting advice. Good luck.Thank you so much for the detailed reply and good information.
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #10 – January 03, 2022, 12:22:27 pm Your AC may have the OPT HEAT setting on the dial regardless of whether it has the heat strip. So the only way to know for sure is to turn the OPT HEAT setting on and see what happens. If after a few minutes you just get cold air you probably don't have the heat strip. But if the air slowly warms that means the heat strip is working. This is simply an electric heater built into the AC.Assuming you have a 30amp hookup I doubt you will overload any circuits by running your second electric heater. I don't think you should need more than two heat sources at once, so take your choice: both portable electric heaters, one electric heater and the AC heat strip, an electric heater and the forced air furnace. None of those combinations should be a problem.As to the water heater, yes it is well insulated and just heating morning and evening should be OK, but if you're a worry wort like I am leaving it on all night will use little propane, because it won't run much, and that will make one less thing to worry about.
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #11 – January 03, 2022, 01:01:27 pm The water heater may look to be well insulated, and they are on the outside, but the aluminum tank has a big hole through the center where the propane flame and hot exhaust gasses actually heat the water. Atwood Replacement Inner Tanks #91641 | 80-1360 | by PPL I was always hoping to have an insulated door at the entry and exit to cut down on heat loss, at least for residential water heaters, but too expensive and problematic, certainly for a small RV tank. In the old days a 'standing' pilot would keep heat loss at the central location to a minimum. Now with automatic ignition (DSI) you don't get that heat gain. On demand heaters cure that. It looks like the shortage of repair heater tanks has been solved, and new tanks even have 'sale' prices. RonB
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #12 – January 03, 2022, 01:25:42 pm When you get to Quartzsite you will likely have a different problem, unless you're staying somewhere with hookups. That will be staying warm without shore power, as the nights and mornings will still be cold. Even if you have some solar power it won't be abundant in winter. So, how to stay warm?Of course unless you run your generator your portable electric heaters won't work. Neither will the AC heat strip if you have one. And while running the forced air furnace will work it will drain the coach batteries fairly quickly. But you could run the generator to allow you to use all the sources of heat you would have available with hookups. That could be disturbing to those nearby, though I find that when heat is an issue (Iate evening and early morning) most people are inside their coaches where outside noise is less disturbing. If noise is at all likely to be an issue for others though, I try to avoid using the generator.If you have a catalytic heater installed that will work without electricity. But it will consume propane from your tank. And it shouldn't be on when you're sleeping as it does consume oxygen (crack a roof vent when it's on).Another solution, which we use, is a portable propane heater. We just replaced our old one with a new one, greatly improved:MH9BX Portable Buddy Heater | Mr. HeaterWe got ours on sale at a Dick's Sporting Goods store, but they should be available elsewhere. You'll be passing through or near Tucson and Phoenix and could surely find one in those places. (Dick's Web site allows you to check local inventory before going to a store.)While the Buddy heater can be hooked up to a large propane tank we just use the green one pound propane cylinders. In a place like Quartzsite those would probably last a couple of days. They can be expensive so it's a good idea to stock up at Walmart, where they are typically half the price you'll pay in specialty stores.I like the Buddy heater because it is easily moved around to where you need it and can be stored away when not in use. And it does a good job of heating the coach in the sort of "in-between" conditions we mostly encounter in off-season camping.A few cautions. You must be sure the cylinder is properly screwed into the heater. If you smell propane at all, don't light the heater (this applies to any source that uses propane). Also, it creates an open flame, though in a very safe way by heating a ceramic grate and behind a safety screen, so be sure to locate and use it in a way that nothing flammable will contact it or fall on it. And you should open a roof vent an inch or two, as it does use oxygen, and it shouldn't be on when you're sleeping or might fall asleep. It does have an oxygen sensor built in that will shut it off if oxygen levels get too low, but you don't want to count on that. I would use it outdoors the first time to allow you to get used to its operation in a completely safe place. But once you've done that I wouldn't have any qualms about using it in your LD. It's worked great for us.When camping in cold weather without hookups we hang a blanket to isolate the coach from the cab. We use the Buddy heater to stay warm when we're up, more bedding to stay warm when asleep. I don't worry about freezing water in the coach plumbing at night until outside temps get into the mid-20s, say 28 or below. If I'm at all concerned I will turn the forced air furnace on to its lowest setting so that it will run a bit when the indoor temp drops. In the morning I may run the Ford engine for 45 minutes or so with the Ford heater on full blast to help heat things up and give the coach batteries a good start on the day. After that it's the Buddy heater if needed, until bed.Since you're headed west I highly recommend Arizona State Parks, most of which have at least some sites with electric hook-ups. And they have an excellent reservation system to allow you to secure a site in advance. And Gilbert Ray Campground in Tucson Mountain Park is another nice campground with electric hookups at all sites (but a difficult reservation system). Finally, a few miles south of you is Pancho Villa New Mexico State Park, where many sites have electricity. It has a good museum and is a nice place to just chill out, a nice library in town and a couple of good restaurants within walking distance, especially the Borderland Cafe. 5 Likes
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #13 – January 03, 2022, 02:21:46 pm Cheryl, we have the same model and same year LD as you. We camp typically 30+ days in below freezing temperatures. One issue for your 98~MB is that all of your 110V AC plugs are on one 15amp breaker. We solved our all plugs on one 15amp circuit by adding a 20 amp plug in cabinet under the sink above the power center and connecting it to the microwave circuit. You could also access this 20amp circuit by plugging a extension cord into your microwave plug in the cabinet above and to the right of the sink. Then you have access to 20amps shared with your microwave. When we cold weather camp with plug in power we use many small 250 watt heaters mixed with a oil filled hydronic heater about 1500watts in the kitchen/dinette and we have a 700 watt oil filled hydronic heater in the back lounge. We use one or two 250watt heater in the bathroom. We find that the small heaters can be directed where you need them. When we camp in temps sustained below the 20s we add a 250watt heater in the refrigerator compartment. We have also added the Camco Hot Water Hybrid Heat Kit (700watts) and is connected to that 15amp 110v plugs circuit so we have to be carefull with how many things are plugged into the 15amp house plug circuit when we use. We find that using that hot water kit keeps the hot water tank and waterlines on that side of the LD adiquatly protected from freezing, otherwise running the propane hotwater heater a couple times a day works well. When we are planning on going cold camping we dump before and then add a half gallon to our black and gray tanks of antifreeze or window washer fluid that is freeze proof (whichever is cheaper) to protect our dump valves. We have found that if we maintain the interior temp of our LD at 50 degrees or above we have not had any issues at least for abbout ten days. The black and gray tanks can freeze but this can be solved by going to warmer weather or by adding some hot water to loosen things up if you have to dump right away. Karen~Liam 98 ~MB NinA250watt heater at Ace Hardware - Soleil Ceramic Portable Heater - Ace HardwarePelonis 1,500-Watt Oil-Filled Radiant Electric Space Heater at Home Depot -http://www.homedepot.com/p/Pelonis-1-500-Watt-Oil-Filled-Radiant-Electric-Space-Heater-with-Thermostat-HO-0279/309069851?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-VF-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys&cm_mmc=Shopping-VF-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys-71700000042813121-58700005464629311-92700067963002094&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2sqOBhCGARIsAPuPK0jwVrwo1nbhGkSnJP5O7lDf7odrsjFrpUgeyFhcraXShAC7Z8ceASwaAsSeEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds700watt oil filled heater at Ace Hardware - Konwin Oil Filled Heater - Ace HardwareCamco Hot Water Hybrid Heat Kit -Amazon.com: Camco Hot Water Hybrid Heat Kit - Easily Converts Any 6-Gallon... As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Cold Weather Camping Reply #14 – January 03, 2022, 02:22:15 pm Cheryl, we have the same model and same year LD as you. We camp typically 30+ days in below freezing temperatures. One issue for your 98~MB is that all of your 110V AC plugs are on one 15amp breaker. We solved our all plugs on one 15amp circuit by adding a 20 amp plug in cabinet under the sink above the power center and connecting it to the microwave circuit. You could also access this 20amp circuit by plugging a extension cord into your microwave plug in the cabinet above and to the right of the sink. Then you have access to 20amps shared with your microwave. When we cold weather camp with plug in power we use many small 250 watt heaters mixed with a oil filled hydronic heater about 1500watts in the kitchen/dinette and we have a 700 watt oil filled hydronic heater in the back lounge. We use one or two 250watt heater in the bathroom. We find that the small heaters can be directed where you need them. When we camp in temps sustained below the 20s we add a 250watt heater in the refrigerator compartment. We have also added the Camco Hot Water Hybrid Heat Kit (700watts) and is connected to that 15amp 110v plugs circuit so we have to be carefull with how many things are plugged into the 15amp house plug circuit when we use. We find that using that hot water kit keeps the hot water tank and waterlines on that side of the LD adiquatly protected from freezing, otherwise running the propane hotwater heater a couple times a day works well. When we are planning on going cold camping we dump before and then add a half gallon to our black and gray tanks of antifreeze or window washer fluid that is freeze proof (whichever is cheaper) to protect our dump valves. We have found that if we maintain the interior temp of our LD at 50 degrees or above we have not had any issues at least for abbout ten days. The black and gray tanks can freeze but this can be solved by going to warmer weather or by adding some hot water to loosen things up if you have to dump right away. Karen~Liam 98 ~MB NinA250watt heater at Ace Hardware - Soleil Ceramic Portable Heater - Ace HardwarePelonis 1,500-Watt Oil-Filled Radiant Electric Space Heater at Home Depot -http://www.homedepot.com/p/Pelonis-1-500-Watt-Oil-Filled-Radiant-Electric-Space-Heater-with-Thermostat-HO-0279/309069851?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-VF-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys&cm_mmc=Shopping-VF-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys-71700000042813121-58700005464629311-92700067963002094&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2sqOBhCGARIsAPuPK0jwVrwo1nbhGkSnJP5O7lDf7odrsjFrpUgeyFhcraXShAC7Z8ceASwaAsSeEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds700watt oil filled heater at Ace Hardware - Konwin Oil Filled Heater - Ace HardwareCamco Hot Water Hybrid Heat Kit -Amazon.com: Camco Hot Water Hybrid Heat Kit - Easily Converts Any 6-Gallon... 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
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