Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

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Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

December 12, 2021, 01:04:18 pm

As part of my plan B to getting a new LD, looking at a decent 1994 23.4 LD that has a non operational generator.

Given I really never used the generator on my 20 weeks of RV rentals, not having a generator doesn’t bother me and got me thinking, rather than fix/replace said generator, put that money towards adding solar to the rig and use the generator compartment for lithium batteries? Has anyone done that? Pitfalls? Is it a really stupid idea?

Yes, I realize installing solar or any significant investment on such an old rig is questionable. I’d much rather wait for my spot on the list bubble up to the top and start with a new rig, but that is looking grim.

Thanks!

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #1 – December 12, 2021, 01:28:06 pm

You may want to check out the "I'm Not Lost, I'm RVing" channel on YouTube. They removed the generator in their MB and turned it into storage. They put 4 Battleborns in the bay under the fridge. They mostly boondock.

You can check out their 6 month update on their battery and solar setup here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZhjw11C240&t=43

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #2 – December 12, 2021, 01:43:39 pm

I don't think it's a bad idea, especially if you know your camping style and feel comfortable ballparking your energy usage.

Most of the batteries and parts/pieces can be transferred to a new rig.

Rich

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #3 – December 12, 2021, 02:28:26 pm

As long as your travels are not in hot areas, it will work fine, our original 1983 LD was generator free, with a 200-watts of solar.
With careful planning, a 24’ rig’s roof will hold round 500-watts of solar panels. The generator bay will hold several lithium batteries. One down side is you probably will not recoup the inverstiment when eventually selling.

We use our generator a bit during hot summertime desert crossings to keep the back of the coach from overheating, usually turning it on an hour or two before arriving at our night’s campsite.
Except for occasional generator’s runs during the short days of winter, most of our generator hours are the result of monthly maintenenace runs at home.
Our LD is stored at home and is reassuring to have it and the generator available, living in earthquake country.

Used LDs are rare but I would look for a 1999 or newer rig to pour this kind of money into, it will have a better engine and transmission and repair parts will be more available.
If buying a 1997-2003 LD, I would buget to have the V10’s spark plug inserts installed to prevent spark plug blowout.
Any LD built after 2002 will have the fog-prone thermal windows.
A down side of the 22’-24’ models built before 2003 is they have a much lower GVW of 11,500-lbs. It’s very easy to overload them unless you pack lightly. Our 1983 22’ FL was always at or slightly over its GVW.
Lots to think about.

Larry

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #4 – December 12, 2021, 02:46:59 pm

I would repair the generator first.
If it isn't too expensive to do, I'd add the solar and Li batteries.
Having both gives you redundancy, something nice to have in an RV.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #5 – December 12, 2021, 03:56:33 pm

We installed three lithium batts and 600 watts solar AND kept the generator... mainly to recharge batteries if we "ran out of" sun during inclement weather or have discharged the batteries to such a degree during the day that we could experience nighttime issues...

It's mainly a backup option to support solar should the need arise.

Always have a "plan B" RV'ing...
.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #6 – December 12, 2021, 04:00:05 pm

We also rarely use our generator except to exercise it every 30 or so days. We have used it when boondocking in hot weather in the west to cool our 98~MB in the evenings. We also occasionally use our generator when boondocking in the winter to recharge our four batteries when our 450 watts of solar is not enough, which can be often during storms. Normally we would not miss the generator for 80 to 90 percent of the time when we camp but we would definitely have to plan our camping with out it. For example we were camping at paradise on MT Rainier this summer at 5000ft and it was still around 80 degrees + which is no problem with the windows and vents open. Unfortunately winds shifted and smoke from a nearby fire inundated the area forcing us inside. We have a 12 volt HEPA air filter which is adequate for our space but the temperature inside the closed 98~MB got to hot for us so we fired up the generator and the AC. We tried to wait out the smoke till the next day but ended up leaving that next day for clearer air elsewhere. We were glad to have the generator and AC and air filter.

Karen~Liam
98~MB
NinA

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #7 – December 12, 2021, 05:31:46 pm

Agreed, redundancy is good. 2021 is our first year of ownership of Nocona, and we traveled close to 7K miles in her (not including the trip back from Florida to California after purchase). We only used the generator once while camping this year and that was to run the AC a few hours when the temperature was 110 degrees and our campsite (with hookups) was experiencing brownouts. We were sure glad for having a generator that afternoon!

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #8 – December 12, 2021, 08:47:46 pm

Thank you for all the great feedback!

Deb, thanks for the reminder about "I'm Not Lost, I'm RVing" channel on YouTube. I follow them, but didn’t remember that they took out their generator.

Rich, didn’t think about transferring the lithium battery bank if I actually get a new TK later, great idea.

Larry, recouping cost of adding solar isn’t concerning, though if my new TK comes along, I’d be duplicating the the setup again, sans paying for new lithium.   This purchase is a plan B hedge that I might never get a new TK.   I had forgot how limited the E350 chassis, at least removing the generator will offset the battery weight and some of the solar.

As to the age of the engine/transmission, that is definitely what gives me the most pause. At 27 years and 53k miles, low mileage is both a blessing and a curse, latter suggests lengthy periods of inactivity, never good for an engine, also backs up the generator not running, not run enough.

Karen~Liam, I hear ya about it being warm occasionally, it was kinda warm and smoky at during our Rainier/Paradise early September this year.   I’d be inclined to move on to other locations in that case, rather than wait it out.

Greg, it would be miserable camping in that heat without reliable hookup power. I would have to swallow my pride and get a motel room instead.

My expected use is dry camping in northern/high altitude locations during the summers. No cold weather, winter travel planned.   Only time I used the generator during my rentals was for the AC, traveling in southern Utah in July with the kids, something I can easily avoid by traveling in cooler months.   At worst, I’ll pony up for hookups for unexpected heat.

Given that I want solar on my RV, and it’s not realistic to have both a generator AND solar on a RV with such a limited carrying capacity, removing a non operational generator makes sense, and I am at peace with the few times I would need the gen.   Still have have a HUGE question mark on the older engine/transmission.   I’d much rather buy a used 2005 or newer, but those are quite scarce.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #9 – December 13, 2021, 04:49:30 am

Hi Dave. I have owned my 1999 TK with the E350 V10 since new. I have mostly completed the addition of 450 watts of solar. The most that the SB3000i can handle, and the roof is still walkable. In addition my newly installed SG-200 Balmar battery meter confirmed that my lead acids were ageing. SOK just came out with a LiFePO4 battery about the size of Trojan T-125's and they are pretty much a drop in to the battery box. I did have to remove the slide out tray. I also added a 'tank' heater, originally meant for water tanks, that fits the two SOK 206 batteries. I also added a 2kw Pure Sine Wave inverter. All of this is a tight fit in the TK. I'm taking pictures, but I'm not done yet)
After 21 years and 53k miles, I hope to log more miles soon. Work schedule incompatibilities with my wifes work hours, and medical issues have slowed our usage. I mostly run the generator for maintenance. 120 hours in 21 years. But some hours driving in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona in the summer (120 degrees outside, "but its a dry heat!"). I wouldn't be without it. The inverter and Renogy charger, with the 48# SOK batteries and wiring, switch gear weigh less than the two 65 pound lead acid alone. The 5 solar panel with wiring, controller and framework weigh in at about 60 pounds. I have Kwikee levelers (about 250#) and twice, a few years apart, have weighed in just 50# over the 11,500# GVWR. With occupants, 3 cats, full water tank, 37 gallons (that was the only tank available in '99) gasoline, and partially full black and gray tanks. Full food and camping accoutrements. We were returning from a trip.. I would not remove the generator, but I wish it were quieter. RonB

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #10 – December 13, 2021, 06:41:39 am

Battery racks can be fabricated between the frames. Welder should be experienced in frame welding.
I might only run the genset an hour or so a month but I would not be without one.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #11 – December 13, 2021, 06:58:51 am

Ours came without a generator. Someday maybe get a little gen to take with us once in a while, but no need yet, been two years.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #12 – December 13, 2021, 12:31:56 pm

Quote from: RonB - December 13, 2021, 04:49:30 am

After 21 years and 53k miles, I hope to log more miles soon. Work schedule incompatibilities with my wifes work hours, and medical issues have slowed our usage.

I certainly hope that the medical issues are resolved or at least contained. And if the work schedules are now compatible, then excellent news. If you have some RV travel plans, I hope they include Texas. 😁. Gas is $2.64 at our local Costco.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #13 – December 13, 2021, 03:16:00 pm

"Gas is $2.64 at our local Costco."

In SF Bay Area average is $4.95.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #14 – December 13, 2021, 03:44:13 pm

I mostly run the generator for maintenance. 120 hours in 21 years

Ron, seems a little low. Our 2017 has 120 hours on the genny!

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #15 – December 13, 2021, 04:52:48 pm

Quote from: Lazy Bones - December 13, 2021, 03:16:00 pm

"Gas is $2.64 at our local Costco."

In SF Bay Area average is $4.95.

It takes a lot of gas to get from California to Texas to save a few bucks on fuel.
Regular at Cosco today, $4.15 plus the 4% rebate with Costco Citi Card, which equals $3.99.

Larry

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #16 – December 13, 2021, 04:58:14 pm

Quote from: Larry W - December 13, 2021, 04:52:48 pm

It takes a lot of gas to get from California to Texas to save a few bucks on fuel.

Actually we’re mostly downhill. Now if you were to drive north, which is uphill, I’d agree. 🤪

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #17 – December 13, 2021, 04:59:59 pm

Hi Greg; well I forget to run it very often, and if I might need it for A/C duty, that goes into the maintenance category. I keep the gas fresh, and this is a pretty warm dry climate, not so hard on the genset. About 30 minutes every two months, more or less. If I spent more time on the road away from hookups, I'd probably have more hours of actual use. The Emerald II is much noisier than the generator you have, the MicroQuiet. RonB

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #18 – December 13, 2021, 05:53:55 pm

Fellow travelers

We recently returned from a six-week RV trip in our LD pulling a toad- 5050-mile round robin from Las Vegas, to north western Illinois to New Orleans through Texas back home to Vegas.

Average gas price $3.85. Average milage slightly under 9 mpg. About $2200 bucks. Not so bad when you consider you are driving your house 3/4-way across the country and return.

The true cost of this adventure with my favorite and only wife - one bad cat and myself - PRICELESS!

Highest we paid was $4.65 in Cedar City Utah. Go figure!

Cheers!

Tony R. (AKA codefour)

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #19 – December 13, 2021, 07:15:20 pm

It doesn't really matter if you use it or not.
I think removing an existing generator is a bad idea. It came with the RV, gives it more value by being there and can be a lifesaver in a bad situation.
There are plenty of places to put the batteries without removing the gen set.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #20 – December 14, 2021, 12:57:36 am

Quote from: Jota - December 13, 2021, 07:15:20 pm

It doesn't really matter if you use it or not.
I think removing an existing generator is a bad idea. It came with the RV, gives it more value by being there and can be a lifesaver in a bad situation.

I agree if was operational, the generator of 1994 LD I am looking at isn’t, and the current owner has already spent $800 to get it running without success. Why pour more money into a 27 year old generator, when I would rarely ever use it just for the next owner’s benefit?

As Larry pointed out, the 1994 23.5” chassis already has a low CC, the generator weight can be applied to more batteries and 500 watts of solar that I would use every day.

Plus, I’ll be storing my LD 900 miles away in Wyoming every winter (heated free storage) so not having a generator is one less thing for someone to operate remotely for me.

It’s really the old engine/transmission that is holding me back, plus the price is still double the price list without a generator.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #21 – December 14, 2021, 10:47:07 am

Dave, I'm sure you know that in the world of Lazy Daze, patience is a virtue. Heck, it took me almost 20 years to get Nocona! I believe you mentioned you are planning on retiring in 2023 so it seems you have some time to work with. Why settle for something you really don't want?

So, some unsolicited advice; since you are on the list and have some time before retirement, why not wait and see if a newer TK pops up for sale in the meantime? Yes, they are as rare as hen's teeth but every once in a while, one magically appears. My '85 TK didn't have a generator but Nocona does. I sure do like having the safety net it provides!

Just my 2 cents worth . . .

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #22 – December 14, 2021, 11:57:09 am

Hi Dave; Certainly if you are camping with children, the TK may be a bit small. This one for sale, is a larger version of a TK and much newer. It caught my eye, and would be a suitable 'second option' alternative. https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2007-Lazy-Daze-26.5-MID-BATH-5018666052
I'm not associated with RVTrader, but they often have Lazy Dazes for sale. It is new enough that you could 'flip it' for when your planned TK materializes.
You live close enough that you could have Lazy Daze repair that wind damage patch. It's age still qualifies for LD to repair it. Salvage titles usually are because the insurance adjusters just 'throw away' damaged RV's, especially relatively unknown brands , that take too much effort to fix, when it can't be towed to the nearest car dealership to be repaired. A case in point is a friend from the Caravan Club that spent $30k and a year to have LD fix their MB, when the insurance company offered $3000 to 'total' it. They did have to pony up $7k, but LD went to bat to get the insurance company to pay for most of it. RonB

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #23 – December 14, 2021, 02:28:24 pm

Quote from: HiLola - December 14, 2021, 10:47:07 am

Dave, I'm sure you know that in the world of Lazy Daze, patience is a virtue. Heck, it took me almost 20 years to get Nocona! I believe you mentioned you are planning on retiring in 2023 so it seems you have some time to work with. Why settle for something you really don't want?

So, some unsolicited advice; since you are on the list and have some time before retirement, why not wait and see if a newer TK pops up for sale in the meantime?

That’s great advice Greg, except I retired early a year ago. Pandemic gave me an opportunity and I took it. Not desperate to have something for next year, but it’s would be a nice to have, and I’m considering a used LD as a bridge to a new one, or as a plan B should the pandemic bring about the demise of LD..

If someone could magically guarantee I could have a new one by spring of 2023, I’d be fine with waiting too. Patience I’ve got, I have been here for almost 20 years waiting to own one.

I started this thread because I really liked the multi-plan layout, it’s not a TK, but it’s a great runner up and the interior has been nicely updated. At this point I like the idea of ripping out the broken generator and using the space for solar batteries, rather than fix the gen, the point of the spitballing. But the 27 year old engine has put the breaks on pursuing it.

Re: Spitballing, remove generator and use space for batteries.

Reply #24 – December 14, 2021, 02:35:55 pm

Quote from: RonB - December 14, 2021, 11:57:09 am

Hi Dave; Certainly if you are camping with children, the TK may be a bit small. This one for sale, is a larger version of a TK and much newer. It caught my eye, and would be a suitable 'second option' alternative.

RonB, you evil tempter. I have always loved MBs, the layout is perfect, with the space for the extra table.

But then I remind myself of the places I love to camp that a TK can visit that a MB cannot.

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