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Topic: California Generator Ban Proposal (Read 576 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #2 –
A pieced together quote from the above referenced articles:   "have a crippling effect on RVers who rely on them to power their rigs when shore power is not available.     According to definition of the proposal, the bill would ban the use of generators installed in most motorhomes and other motorized RVs. RVers who travel with trailers and fifth wheels would be unable to use portable generators." [Cal] Assembly Bill 1346.  
    The emphasis on 'Zero Emission' is almost always distorted.  Those electric batteries just place the air emission somewhere farther away, either a gas or oil or coal burning power plant somewhere else. Sometimes in another state, or across the border in Mexico.  As far as recycling batteries, lead acid are almost totally recycled, but Lithium batteries are harder. Different chemistries of Li, and the danger of Li reacting with air or water is well known.
     In 22 years I've got 125 hours on my generator, The old, noisy, two cylinder Onan that preceded the quieter version most of you have now, the MicroQuiet Onan. Most of those hours were for maintenance runs and A/C in rest stops (away from others) or on the road.
    The article sounds as if it would ban RV's that were equipped with generators from even entering the state.

   A more effective position would be to require these small engines to be computer controlled, fuel injected and catalytic converted.  Advances in design of all these items could make leaf blowers, chainsaws, golf carts and RV generators quieter, less polluting and more fuel efficient.  The advent of DC/AC inverter output generators that allow the engine to slow down when the power load is low has helped. Faster charging Li batteries with sophisticated chargers can reduce the run time of generators also.     RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #3 –
  "A more effective position would be to require these small engines to be..."

Okay Group... all we have to do is to convince the powers-that-be to change their minds!   ::)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #4 –
Another nail in California's coffin.
I use my generator often, it makes my life much more comfortable.
The push to electric everything isn't going to go so well.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #5 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
A pieced together quote from the above referenced articles:   "have a crippling effect on RVers who rely on them to power their rigs when shore power is not available.     According to definition of the proposal, the bill would ban the use of generators installed in most motorhomes and other motorized RVs. RVers who travel with trailers and fifth wheels would be unable to use portable generators. [Cal] Assembly Bill 1346.  
    The emphasis on 'Zero Emission' is almost always distorted.  Those electric batteries just place the air emission somewhere farther away, either a gas or oil or coal burning power plant somewhere else. Sometimes in another state, or across the border in Mexico.  As far as recycling batteries, lead acid are almost totally recycled, but Lithium batteries are harder. Different chemistries of Li, and the danger of Li reacting with air or water is well known.
     In 22 years I've got 125 hours on my generator, The old, noisy, two cylinder Onan that preceded the quieter version most of you have now, the MicroQuiet Onan. Most of those hours were for maintenance runs and A/C in rest stops (away from others) or on the road.
    The article sounds as if it would ban RV's that were equipped with generators from even entering the state.

   A more effective position would be to require these small engines to be computer controlled, fuel injected and catalytic converted.  Advances in design of all these items could make leaf blowers, chainsaws, golf carts and RV generators quieter, less polluting and more fuel efficient.  The advent of DC/AC inverter output generators that allow the engine to slow down when the power load is low has helped. Faster charging Li batteries with sophisticated chargers can reduce the run time of generators also.     RonB

Apparently, the ban does not apply to RV motorhomes, just the small, portable generators like the Honda's/Yamaha's, etc. used (in the RV world), mainly by trailers and smaller campers...

"The new law applies to any engine that produces less than 25 gross horsepower, including lawn mowers, weed trimmers, chain saws, golf carts, specialty vehicles, generators and pumps. It does not apply to on-road motor vehicles, off-road motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles, boats, snowmobiles or model airplanes, cars or boats."

I'm sure  RV consumer lobby and the industry itself will hype it up, though.
.
2006 24’ TK
570 watts solar, 300Ah lithium
SKP Lifetime member #105622
Land of Enchantment
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #6 –
Hi Jaxon;  The article wording did seem to ban all generators, but often the writers of the regulation, or the news article, are unclear themselves about what  is subject to the new regulation.  I don't like the 'construction' type portable gensets, and they are often banned in campgrounds because of noise level. At a gallon of gas per hour, fumes aren't much of a problem unless you are downwind.
   Years ago I was attending a motorhome show and walked across an exhaust plume from a DP aux generator. It was the only noticeable effect that it was running. My hearing was better back then. I wish that all generators were that quiet.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #7 –
As a retiree from the film industry, this proposed law may also have some pushback from filmmakers.

When on location, lots of different sized generators are used (gas, diesel and lots of Yamahas). They are used at remote locations as well as when shooting at private houses, offices and other buildings. "House Power" is usually not sufficient (or even available) to meet the needs of the shoot. Nearly every department has a need for easy access to power. Even when batteries are used, they still need power for recharging multiple times over a long shoot day.

Even the higher-ups have been known to plug their Teslas into the set generators to top off without having to leave the set to find a charger.

This will be interesting to follow.
My wheels:
2003 MB
2012 Jeep Liberty
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Jaxon  - 
Apparently, the ban does not apply to RV motorhomes, just the small, portable generators like the Honda's/Yamaha's, etc. used (in the RV world), mainly by trailers and smaller campers...

"The new law applies to any engine that produces less than 25 gross horsepower, including lawn mowers, weed trimmers, chain saws, golf carts, specialty vehicles, generators and pumps. It does not apply to on-road motor vehicles, off-road motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles, boats, snowmobiles or model airplanes, cars or boats."

I'm sure  RV consumer lobby and the industry itself will hype it up, though.
.

Jaxon,
I’m not sure why you say the ban does not apply to RV motorhomes.  According to the Onan 4K microquiet gas generator spec, the engine produces 9.5 hp which falls within the “less than 25 hp” limit.  However… The RV industry is a powerful lobby so things will probably change and exceptions will be made.

- John
Fulltimer with a 2021 MId-Bath “Babe”, 1996 Cherokee “Scout” and “Bandit” the wonder dog 🐶
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #9 –
Disclaimer, when I bought my first hour 30 years ago, I bought a corded electric lawnmower, and all my yard power tools since have been electric.   Not so much directly to save the environment, but more to the fumes and extra time spent maintaining a small ICE, painful memories growing up.  So I have been in camp electric for small engines for most of my adult life.  Apologies for length too.  :-)

I’ve read through the actual bill, which is all that matters, than any slant an article brings

Bill Text - AB-1346 Air pollution: small off-road engines.

The bill as currently written is all about Small off-road engines (SORE).

Last I checked, an RV is definitely on-road, right?

Likewise even the oldest Onan consumes less fuel and produce less omissions than a motorhome’s engine?  Has to be, otherwise you would just turn on your V8 and generate power and not bother with a separate generator.  Could even carry more gas since you just removed the weight of the generator.

So if this bill indeed bans generators on our RVs, we’ll pollute more by using our engines to generate the same power.

As to Ron’s comments about making more fuel efficient small engines, I agree that the manufacturers should follow what the car companies have been forced to do in the last 50 years.   Frankly, it should have been mandated decades ago.

That said, the writing is on the wall for the future of ICE powered vehicles, every car manufacturer is working on electric vehicles.    Rather than have the small engine market moving to the car model of fuel/emissions efficiency and then later to electric, it actually seems better to jump directly to electric, so that everyone dependent on small engines don’t have to purchase a new efficient small engine, and then later an electric one.

The exception is generators, just have regulations in place to ensure they are as efficient as possible, because there will always be a need for backup electrical power.   RVers like us will benefit from better generators, but they will be more expensive.

Best compromise here would be an emissions efficiency requirement on all small ICE in California meet a very strict standard similar to cars or go electric, and let the manufacturer chose their route.   There is a valid market for both.  But again, the bill is about SORE, and really needs to include generators specifically if it intends to cover them.
Dave

2017 TK
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #10 –
Looks like our side gigs will be welders.  Then haul a gas or diesel powered arc welder. 
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #11 –
I'm dealing with this ban on gas leaf blowers. I'm the supervisor of Code Compliance for a small town in Md. and they want to ban gas leaf blowers. I've made it very clear that my team has no intention on enforcing such an absurd policy when homeowners are trying to beautify their property. Banning gas leaf blowers while these same council members are trying around in gas cars. Don't get me wrong, I drive a Tesla and have a battery powered Ryobi blower and lawnmower but I don't think I have the right to force it on others!
Joe B.
2008 26ft  grey/white Rear Bath
Family of 5 hitting the open road as much as we can.
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #12 –
Quote from: brewersarcade  - 
Banning gas leaf blowers while these same council members are trying around in gas cars. Don't get me wrong, I drive a Tesla and have a battery powered Ryobi blower and lawnmower but I don't think I have the right to force it on others!

I tend to think that way as well, then I read how Small Off-Road Engines pollute far more than modern gas car, as cited in the proposed bill:

Regulations of emissions from SORE have not been as stringent as regulations of other engines, and one hour of operation of a commercial leaf blower can emit as much ROG plus NOx as driving 1,100 miles in a new passenger vehicle.

That’s roughly 20 hours of gas car driving vs 1 hour of leaf blower operation, a bunch of pollution to shuffle leaves around for beautification.
Dave

2017 TK
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #13 –
"my team has no intention on enforcing such an absurd policy when homeowners are trying to beautify their property."

People have always been able to beautify their properties without the energy consumption and noise of these blowers. All it takes is a ten dollar rake and a little physical exercise.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #14 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
"A more effective position would be to require these small engines to be..."

Okay Group... all we have to do is to convince the powers-that-be to change their minds!   ::)
That is assuming they have minds to change.  ;)
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #15 –
"43018.11. (a) (1) By July 1, 2022, the state board shall, consistent with federal law, adopt cost-effective and technologically feasible regulations to prohibit engine exhaust and evaporative emissions from new small off-road engines, as defined by the state board. Those regulations shall apply to engines produced on or after January 1, 2024, or as soon as the state board determines is feasible, whichever is later."


Since I'm guessing nobody on this board/forums owns a RV/generator  made after 2024.......



glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #17 –
perhaps an opportunity to put light weight, long lasting and more powerful batteries which can be charged by solar while stationary and fully charged with <hopefully dual> alternator when engine is running :-)

if i have to buy a new generator right now, it is difficult to beat battery packs which can be charged by solar power .... i did not pay attention but new bill passed has $1200 for electric bicycle, there must be some incentive to solar charge battery pack as well ...
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #18 –
Thanks for the heads up.  I love my gas weed whacker and will make sure I buy a new one before the ban goes into place! 👍
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
!
Reply #19 –
Battery-powered yard equipment has evolved, I use my 15-year-old Ryobi leaf blower almost daily and it is small compared to the blowers that use the larger lithium batteries that power lawn mowers.
The argument that gardeners will be out of buiness is premature. Every gardener I see uses a truck, which has an alternator, a source of DC power that can be used to charge their batteries while driving between jobs.

For the most part, electric yard equipment requires less repairs and maintenance than their gas-powered counterparts parts.
The reduced noise and the lack of toxic fumes will improved the health of landscapers, I see it as a positive development.
The downside of electrification is how to provide the large increases power, where is it going to come from and how is it going to be stored, especially at night when much of the fleet of electric cars will be charged?
The auto industry said car engines could not be cleaned up yet it was done, the pressure of government mandates gave them the incentive to make it happen.

When it comes to RV generators, solar is great but there are times it will not provide the needed power.
Our LD’s generators do not have any polution control devices and are very polluting, a fact obvious when near a running RV generator.  For the short term, they can be made to run much cleaner, the same way motorcycle engines have been made less polluting, the technology is already here.
While not practical today, hydrogen is a possible future fuel for RV generators and fuel-cells. 16 years ago, my work vehicle was a hydrogen-powered, fuel-cell Mercedes, it drove like a normal car, minus the noise.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: California Generator Ban Proposal
Reply #20 –
Couldn't agree with you more.  I use an electric lawn mower, blower and hedge trimmer, as well as battery operated weed eater.  Not having a bunch of small engines to keep up is a real blessing.  Many of our neighbors use professional lawn care and the noise can be pretty bad at times, especially those gas blowers.  I guess they lack mufflers to keep the weight down, and are probably 2 stroke engines too.  I hate all forms of pollution, especially air, noise and light, not necessarily in that order, but any means to reduce any of them will get my vote.  I do wonder where we will get all that power from tho, especially if we continue to avoid nuclear.
Former 2000 MB- Now Bullet Crossfire 1800RB trailer pulled by a Chevy 2500HD