Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #25 – August 17, 2021, 07:54:24 pm Quote from: HiLola - August 17, 2021, 02:36:54 pmThanks, Steve. I did find the wireless transmitter, well hidden under the dash. I need to read up and play around with the equipment to get familiar with it. They also installed a red LED strip on the dash.Greg, is that 'wireless' box under the dash in the LD? If so, it likely is to energize the LED strip on your dash. The accelerometer box mounts in the toad.Steve
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #26 – August 17, 2021, 08:12:31 pm No, Steve. The wireless box is under the toad dash, as per the install instructions. I don't see the LED strip on the dash mentioned in the Wireless Coachlink manual. Not sure if the strip is part of the Stay-in Play Duo system or an add-on by the dealer (I'm just starting to read through the main system manual). Supposedly, the LED strip lights can be seen seen by the back-up camera when braking but I didn't notice that during our trip home from the coast. The quality of the factory video is not great, and I may also need to slightly adjust the camera angle. I'm sure it's much more visible at night, though.
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #27 – August 17, 2021, 10:12:11 pm "...the LED strip lights can be seen seen by the back-up camera..."Don't bet breakfast on that! I've had that LED light strip for years and never could see it, day or night. I've been ignoring it so long that I couldn't tell you now if it's still there!
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #28 – August 18, 2021, 11:56:45 am Quote from: JohnR - August 17, 2021, 07:33:56 pmLarry,My Jeep already has a 6-pin connector mounted next to the baseplate. I thought I would leave it there and rewire the lights and add a “tow brake on” light in the LD, thus saving me the expense of replacing the 2 connectors and coiled cable. But now your “tow brake test” button has me thinking that maybe a 7-pin setup would be better. Can you tell me how the test button is wired into the system? I didn’t see anything on Demco’s Stay-IN-Play DUO instructions that would indicate how to wire one in.The Cab's brake test button supplies 12-volt power from a circuit that is hot when the ignition is on. The powered test circuit runs to the rear of the RV where it is transferred to the toad, through the umbilical cord, and is connected to the breakaway switch's black wire. The breakaway switch is normally powered up when the breakaway pin pulls out. The 'test' circuit provides 12-volt power to the breakaway switch, simulating a breakaway condition, and while at the same time activating the tow brake unit. Push the 'test' button and see if the 'toad brake on' light illuminates. The 'toad brake on' light is located next to the 'test' switch in our LD.The 'toad brake on' light wire runs from the toad's brake light switch, normally located on the brake pedal. When the toad's brakes are applied and the pedal moves, the brake light switch is switched on and provides power back to the Cab's 'toad brake on' light.The 'test' button and 'toad brake on' LED are mounted in a small wood box, under the backup camera monitorRefer to the wiring diagram of Demco's installation manual, page 19.https://cdn.demco-products.com/documents/Manuals/TB20051.pdf?m=20210707101238The breakaway switch's black wire runs to the brake unit, switching from a black wire to a blue wire, the 'test' wire can be connected anywhere along this circuit.One issue that came up while wiring our 2020 Wrangler is that Jeep's brake light switch is not continuously powered after the vehicle is shut off. The computer shuts all power off after three minutes. The cure is to use an infrared switch, mounted the brake pedal.https://roadmasterinc.com/pdf/751000.pdfLarry 2 Likes
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #29 – August 18, 2021, 12:31:59 pm Thanks Larry for your detailed explanation of how you wired the test button and tow-brake-on light. For now I think I’ll use the in-place 6-pin connectors on the Jeep and LD. I plan on upgrading the Jeep’s front bumper and will wait until then to mount the 7-pin connectors and wire in the test button. I do have a couple of additional questions. Does pushing the test button and thus simulating pulling the breakaway switch, slam on the toad brakes? That could be rather exciting if it does. Do you normally pull over first and test before heading down a steep grade?Thanks,John
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #30 – August 18, 2021, 12:43:58 pm Quote from: HiLola - August 17, 2021, 08:12:31 pmNo, Steve. The wireless box is under the toad dash, as per the install instructions. I don't see the LED strip on the dash mentioned in the Wireless Coachlink manual. Not sure if the strip is part of the Stay-in Play Duo system or an add-on by the dealer (I'm just starting to read through the main system manual). Supposedly, the LED strip lights can be seen seen by the back-up camera when braking but I didn't notice that during our trip home from the coast. The quality of the factory video is not great, and I may also need to slightly adjust the camera angle. I'm sure it's much more visible at night, though. So Demco has obviously made many changes since ours, which has no 'wireless' box anywhere. Still, somewhere on the toad must be a switch to turn the system on - doing so and pulling the breakaway pin should activate the brakes and light up whichever lights indicate such.Steve
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #31 – August 18, 2021, 12:57:35 pm Steve, yes, that box is attached on the driver sidewall. The switch position was hard to read so I labeled it. Just need to get out and play with it now.
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #32 – August 18, 2021, 02:21:19 pm "that box is attached on the driver sidewall."Right you are Greg, although I did not have the forethought to add your labels! And around the corner, on the side of that box, nearest the drivers leg, is a small knob... do you know it's purpose?That is your 'sensitivity' adjustment. Adjust it in accordance with how aggressive you want the toad brakes to be, loosen the knob and slide it one way you get less aggressive brakes and more aggressive in the other direction, and don't forget to tighten the knob when you are finished.
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #33 – August 18, 2021, 02:41:13 pm Quote from: JohnR - August 18, 2021, 12:31:59 pmDoes pushing the test button and thus simulating pulling the breakaway switch, slam on the toad brakes? That could be rather exciting if it does. Do you normally pull over first and test before heading down a steep grade?Pushing the test button activates the toad brake as it normally does when the RV is braking hard and the toad brake is activated. Demco's braking response is progressive, it gets stronger for several seconds until it reaches its peak performance, it is incapable of slamming the brakes on.When the Demco unit is activated, a vacuum pump evaluates the brake booster, reaching 4-6 psi of vacuum. The pump also provides compressed air to power the cylinder connected to the brake pedal, produces up to 90 psi of pressure. I test the toad brake while the rig is rolling, when it's working correctly, you can feel a slight tugging at the rear of the LD that will increase a bit over the first few seconds of operation, until it reaches maximum braking.The slower you are moving, the stronger the braking response feels. The braking response is somewhat adjustable by moving the location of the Demco's brake pedal cylinder up or down.Larry 1 Likes
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #34 – August 18, 2021, 03:01:07 pm Thank you Larry. As always, your guidance is welcomed as well as informative.- John
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #35 – August 20, 2021, 11:32:16 am Quote from: RonB - August 17, 2021, 03:52:35 amThe seventh wire is for feedback from the towed to the dash of the motorhome. It can be used to light an LED when the towed brakes are on. For instance, if the break-away cable has been pulled and your car's brakes are on. If you step on the brakes of the LD, and the brakes on the towed come on, that's good. If they don't come on, it could be an adjustment problem. If they come on, and you aren't using the LD brakes, that is a real problem! RonBHaving a 'tow brake on' indicator light is a highly recommended enhancement, especially if the light is somewhere that can be easily seen. Some tow brake installations have an LED 'brake light on' light mounted inside the toad's windshield, visible in the LD's rearview mirror, it can be seen if you looking for it's but not very noticeable. Having a bright light on the dash is the preferred way. A 6-pin plug allows the 'brake on' light to be hardwired, no need for the wireless transmitter and receiver.I like and want a 'tow brake on' indicator in the cab of the LD. Several years ago a member failed to show up on time to the March Morro Bay GTG. His tow brake unit has stuck, setting and leaving the toad's brakes on, eventually causing them to overheat, igniting the car's plastic fenders. The car was totaled, his prized Saturn melted into a puddle.It was also a lesson why a TPMS is advisable, overheated brakes will cause the tires to overheat too. Hot tires cause the tire pressure to rise, a stuck brake will increase the tire pressure enough that the monitor will give a 'high pressure ' alarm. High 'tire pressure' alarms should always be checked out. A quick walk around the rig and toad will let quickly indicate a stuck brake, the smell alone should be the first clue, not to mention the heat radiating from the wheel. Disc brake calipers occasionally stick, the result of sitting for long periods, the lack of periodic brake fluid flushing, or poor machining during rebuilding.Larry 2 Likes
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #36 – August 20, 2021, 12:44:41 pm Quote from: Larry W - August 20, 2021, 11:32:16 amHaving a 'tow brake on' indicator light is a highly recommended enhancement, especially if the light is somewhere that can be easily seen.I can see how this would be the preferred way to go. Since my electrical abilities are, uh, somewhat limited, is this a mod most RV repair places can do?
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #37 – August 20, 2021, 06:45:50 pm Greg, you’ve got good advice from Larry on installation of a reliable towed brake activation light/test. Going back to your earlier post, you asked whether you are set-up for the coach to charge the towed’s battery (necessary with a Stay-In-Play Duo). While you would have 12v coach power available to your towed’s baseplate six pin socket via your umbilical connection to the coach, the circuit would not be complete without connecting a battery charger such as RVi’s installed in the towed. Perhaps your installer installed one - I’d check. RVi Towed Battery Charger Plus, charge line replacement for flat towingFor those new to Demco’s reliable Stay-On-Play Duo product, a charger is recommended to keep the towed battery charged, especially on longer driving days, as the Stay-In-Play system consumes quite a bit of power via its vacuum pump unit. Warren
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #38 – August 20, 2021, 08:18:04 pm Wow, that’s news to me Warren. Didn’t realize another component is needed to charge the toad battery. I looked under the Forester hood and didn’t see anything like you mentioned.
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #39 – August 20, 2021, 09:07:24 pm Greg, Your installer may have connected the coach 12v power wire to the towed battery. This method may not charge the battery very effectively given the Stay In Play’s relatively high parasitic power draw. I believe that it may also be possible for the coach to drain the towed’s battery when connected in this way. You may wish to speak with your installer as every towed is a bit different. Good luck. Warren
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #40 – August 21, 2021, 11:20:24 am Quote from: WhiteElk - August 20, 2021, 09:07:24 pmGreg, Your installer may have connected the coach 12v power wire to the towed battery. This method may not charge the battery very effectively given the Stay In Play’s relatively high parasitic power draw. I believe that it may also be possible for the coach to drain the towed’s battery when connected in this way. You may wish to speak with your installer as every towed is a bit different. Thanks, Warren, I’ll give them a call on Monday. I’m wondering if they did hook it up to the coach 12 at power cord, would that need to be removed before installing the RVi charger or could they coexist? 1 Likes
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #41 – August 21, 2021, 01:30:42 pm Quote from: HiLola - August 21, 2021, 11:20:24 amThanks, Warren, I’ll give them a call on Monday. I’m wondering if they did hook it up to the coach 12 at power cord, would that need to be removed before installing the RVi charger or could they coexist?A way of isolating the LD and toad's electrical systems is needed to prevent the toad from draining the coach battery when the engine is not running. The RVi isolator(and other similar devices) will only supply power to the toad's battery when the charge voltage reaches or exceeds 13.2 volts, a condition that only exists when the engine's alternator is supplying adequate voltage.If you have a six or seven-pin cord that already supplies voltage to the toad's battery, the RVI can easily be installed under the hood of the toad, the RVi isn't very big. The RVi has two LEDs that indicate what the charging condition is.RVi Towed Battery Charger Plus, charge line replacement for flat towingLarry
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #42 – August 21, 2021, 04:19:39 pm Hi Greg. I have a spare ss bracket that will fit the threaded brass part of that extension. It will fix the end so that all you have to do is press the gauge or inflator chuck against the V2B fitting using one hand. A predecessor to the RVi towed charger is on my Tracker firewall (picture). The newer version is a lot less than the RVi at $54.95(+$7.95 shipping). TOAD-CHARGE Charge Regulator Only $54.95 TOAD-CHARGE Specifications The RVi seems to be $125 to $197 but does include free shipping. It does have Bluetooth, which the Toad-Charge doesn't. A situation here has a member with difficulty charging the towed vehicle. His LD has so much solar, that also charges the chassis battery, that the Ford alternator doesn't get up enough voltage to charge the towed battery. A little voltage drop in the line to the umbilical. A fix is a DC to DC inverter that boosts the voltage to the towed. This one: DC12V To 15V 15A 225W Step Up Power Supply Converter Regulator Waterproof... produces 15 V at up to 15 amps. (about $18) The Toad-Charge can accept up to 18 volts and will not overcharge the battery. It will also not allow current to feed back to the LD chassis battery. RonB
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #43 – August 21, 2021, 06:44:22 pm Quote from: RonB - August 21, 2021, 04:19:39 pm A predecessor to the RVi towed charger is on my Tracker firewall (picture). The newer version is a lot less than the RVi at $54.95(+$7.95 shipping). TOAD-CHARGE Charge Regulator Only $54.95 TOAD-CHARGE Specifications The RVi seems to be $125 to $197 but does include free shipping. It does have Bluetooth, which the Toad-Charge doesn't. A situation here has a member with difficulty charging the towed vehicle. His LD has so much solar, that also charges the chassis battery, that the Ford alternator doesn't get up enough voltage to charge the towed battery. A little voltage drop in the line to the umbilical. A fix is a DC to DC inverter that boosts the voltage to the towed. Looking at the specs, the Toad-Charge is a better deal. It's a product that has been around for a while, I installed one Chris H.'s CRV many years ago.The RVi charger doesn't appear to have Bluetooth that is useable with an app. RVi has its own proprietary "Control Center", used to control or monitor a wide range of RVi's products.When wired to the chassis side of the isolator (pre-2008 LDs), the charge line should always be over 13-volts when the engine is running, eliminating the need for a voltage converter. It should be the same for newer LDs that use a relay to connect the batteries.The marine world has used voltage-sensitive relays for many years to isolate a boat's starting battery from the accessory battery.Battery Combiners | West MarineI wonder what is wrong with your friend's RV? Maybe the wire leading from the isolator to the rear bumper is undersized or has a bad connection.Larry
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #44 – August 21, 2021, 08:01:29 pm Warren, Ron, Larry, thank you all for your input. Obviously, I have a lot of research to do on the charging issue. I think the first step is to contact my installer, as Warren suggested, on Monday to see how they hooked it up and go from there.Ron, isn't the Toad-Charge made by the same company that makes the Trik-L-Start (LSL Products)?TOAD-CHARGE Dinghy Vehicle Battery Charger/Maintainer
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #46 – August 22, 2021, 09:07:13 am Looking at the latest instructions for the lsl product, it looks like they are assuming there is no power from the motorhome to the toad bumper so they have you installing a circuit breaker in the motorhome and running power via a wire harness to the toad. If I already have power at the the toad 6-pin connector, I can skip all those steps but still use the lsl product, correct?http://www.lslproducts.net/TC_Rev_M1_Instructs.pdf
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #47 – August 22, 2021, 11:05:51 am Quote from: HiLola - August 22, 2021, 09:07:13 amLooking at the latest instructions for the lsl product, it looks like they are assuming there is no power from the motorhome to the toad bumper so they have you installing a circuit breaker in the motorhome and running power via a wire harness to the toad. If I already have power at the the toad 6-pin connector, I can skip all those steps but still use the lsl product, correct?http://www.lslproducts.net/TC_Rev_M1_Instructs.pdfHi Greg,Go to the FAQ (link at bottom of Toad-Charge webpage) to see about using existing motorhome wiring. CAN I USE MY MOTORHOME'S EXISTING REAR HITCH CONNECTOR, INSTEAD OF YOUR CONNECTORS AND MOTORHOME WIRE HARNESS?There are links in the answer that will direct you to a version of the Toad-Charge without the extra wire and connectors.- John 1 Likes
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #48 – August 22, 2021, 12:02:43 pm Ugh, I may be getting over my head here. Any of you electrical gurus interested in coming up to the Tehachapi mountains for free camping and an ‘install party’?
Re: 7pin trailer connector Reply #49 – August 22, 2021, 01:54:39 pm Greg; You already have a charge line in the 6 pin connector you have, as stated by your installer. You already have that charge line that goes to your Subaru battery. You can install the ToadCharge right at your battery in the vehicle. You are making this too hard. LSL is just trying to make it easier for the people with the standard four wires. Buy just the ToadCharge, no wiring, and ask your installer to put it in the Subaru wiring that they added. They may just have a diode already in there, and you don't need to do anything. RonB 1 Likes
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