Do house batteries need to be in place...

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Do house batteries need to be in place...

June 19, 2021, 09:02:43 pm

... for shore power to work?

I will need to have my LD without batteries while I pick up the new ones 50 miles south.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #1 – June 20, 2021, 02:56:37 am

After following your battery issue, I’ve lost track of all the suggestions offered to help you get past the bump in the road.

Has anyone offered to suggest the purchase of a couple of 6 volt golf cart batteries? Lifeline suggested this to me when I was having dead AGM issues. I ended up having my solar upgrade instead.

Costco, Walmart or other retailers have 6 volt batteries for around $100 each. LD will reimburse you for their cost and installation without a doubt. The Mothership has always done all they could to work through issues we’ve ever encountered. Purchasing a new LD as you have, I can’t imagine they haven’t done all they can to make things right.

Honestly, I’d be a bit PO’d too. I’ve always relied on them in the past. Being out of town can’t help matters at all and it certainly doesn’t make the matter any easier.

I’m thinking the bad AGM’s may need to be in place to operate shore power, but I’m not certain. Bad batteries themselves while in place will not prevent shore power from working.

Best of luck.

Kent

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #2 – June 20, 2021, 03:26:20 am

The way I understand RV electrical....anything 12v will not work without batteries. No lights, fans, water pump, refrig circuit board, tv, water heater circuit board, furnace fan. But, 120v should work, so you'll have the plugs and microwave and air conditioner.

Linda

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #3 – June 20, 2021, 04:01:46 am

Hi Ted; You are asking that while at hookups with 120VAC.; remove the batteries and drive them with your towed 50 miles, swap for new batteries; then drive back to the parked motorhome; and install them? Yes you will be fine. As long as you don't lose hookup power, the Parallax converter will provide all of the 12v. power you will need, and the 120VAC will be unaffected.
In the old converters, the batteries were used as a reference, and filter for the 12vdc. Your new converter has an internal reference to more precisely control the 12v. level. The 'switcher' power supply is more sophisticated and will control the voltage and ripple without the batteries. You won't be able to start the generator. The SB3000i solar controller may not like it, and you may get 'funny' readings on its display. But the solar is essentially not doing much while you are on shore power. RonB

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #4 – June 20, 2021, 10:59:12 am

"In the old converters, the batteries were used as a reference, and filter for the 12vdc. Your new converter has an internal reference to more precisely control the 12v. level... without the batteries."

Thanks for clearing that up, Ron. I had been wondering about that, because I remember that issue with the older converters and wasn't sure whether it was still true. Glad to hear it's not. Any idea what converter model number introduced the new circuitry?

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #5 – June 20, 2021, 11:28:56 am

Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - June 20, 2021, 02:56:37 am

....

Has anyone offered to suggest the purchase of a couple of 6 volt golf cart batteries? Lifeline suggested this to me when I was having dead AGM issues. I ended up having my solar upgrade instead.

...

Best of luck.

Kent

Fortunately my batteries aren't complementary dead. They will hold a charge for a little while. Between the plug in sites and generator we've gotten by able to hang on. Otherwise yeah, I'd be looking for any batteries.
Another good coincidence is that we are traveling slowly so when they finally arrive Tuesday (fingers crossed) we will be 50 miles north of the delivery point. We were 6 miles away based on the previous estimated date of delivery but oh well.

I'm debating pulling them myself and running them down there in the tow car to exchange them or driving the rig down there and having them do it. It's a place called "Battery X-Change" but I'm not sure they have experience with motorhomes. I'll ask.

Thanks

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #6 – June 20, 2021, 12:00:59 pm

Quote from: tedeboy - June 20, 2021, 11:28:56 am

I'm debating pulling them myself and running them down there in the tow car to exchange them or driving the rig down there and having them do it. It's a place called "Battery X-Change" but I'm not sure they have experience with motorhomes. I'll ask.

Ted

If you are that close, why go through the hassle of removing the batteries, driving them to the shop for new ones and repeating the process, carrying them yourself back to the campground.
Let the young mana the shop do the heavy work and change them at the shop, that's his job..
Take a photo of how the batteries are wired, also make hand drawing of the batteries, noting the positive and negative terminals and how the cables connect.

Larry

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #7 – June 20, 2021, 12:03:39 pm

Quote from: Larry W - June 20, 2021, 12:00:59 pm

Ted

If you are that close, why go through the hassle of removing the batteries, driving them to the shop for new ones and repeating the process, carrying them yourself back to the campground.
Let the young mana the shop do the heavy work and change them at the shop, that's his job..
Take a photo of how the batteries are wired, also make hand drawing of the batteries, noting the positive and negative terminals and how the cables connect.

Larry

100%

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #8 – June 20, 2021, 12:07:03 pm

Hi Ted; A reminder that if you remove your batteries while the coach is plugged in, that some of the cable ends will still be connected to the converter +12 vdc. If you start the engine, that charging line will also be +12 vdc. So I use blue painters tape, and avoid banging the ends around. Lots of 'grounds' even in the battery box, and surroundings. I would just drive the 50 miles and let the 'Battery Exchange' people do it. If that is part of the service. At least with a 'towed' available you have that option.
I've worked with military and commercial battery systems since I was young. Like Larry, no rings, watches, or dog tags around the neck (metal chain!). The ring was an inductive loop near a radar magnetron! RonB

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #9 – June 20, 2021, 12:11:17 pm

Quote from: Larry W - June 20, 2021, 12:00:59 pm

Ted

If you are that close, why go through the hassle of removing the batteries, driving them to the shop for new ones and repeating the process, carrying them yourself back to the campground.
Let the young mana the shop do the heavy work and change them at the shop, that's his job..
Take a photo of how the batteries are wired, also make hand drawing of the batteries, noting the positive and negative terminals and how the cables connect.

Larry

I guess I'm just being paranoid that they might mess it up. Flash arc or other such occurrences.

But I'm seriously leaning towards them handling it.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #10 – June 20, 2021, 12:18:55 pm

Quote from: tedeboy - June 20, 2021, 12:11:17 pm

I guess I'm just being paranoid that they might mess it up. Flash arc or other such occurrences.

But I'm seriously leaning towards them handling it.

Have them do it....but watch over them like a hawk IMO

Good luck!!

Bill

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #11 – June 20, 2021, 12:21:59 pm

Hi Ted; as one who has done worked around this type of equipment, drawing an arc usually causes an instinctive reaction with your hand that causes pain, if not injury! A great training method to 'not do that again'. Effective, and memorable. If they change out batteries routinely, they will be careful. And liable for any damage they cause. If you cause the damage, you're stuck. RonB

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #12 – June 20, 2021, 12:34:39 pm

Quote from: RonB - June 20, 2021, 12:21:59 pm

Hi Ted; as one who has done worked around this type of equipment, drawing an arc usually causes an instinctive reaction with your hand that causes pain, if not injury! A great training method to 'not do that again'. Effective, and memorable. If they change out batteries routinely, they will be careful. And liable for any damage they cause. If you cause the damage, you're stuck. RonB

Good point!

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #13 – June 20, 2021, 12:55:28 pm

Quote from: RonB - June 20, 2021, 12:21:59 pm

as one who has done worked around this type of equipment, drawing an arc usually causes an instinctive reaction with your hand that causes pain, if not injury! A great training method to 'not do that again'. Effective, and memorable. stuck.

Pain is a word sometimes associated with batteries and is a good training aid.
The thought of ab exploding battery pack is always on the back of my mind. Having six, T-105 batteries blow up in my face, many years ago at work, was more excitement than I needed. Happy to be here.

Larry

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #14 – June 20, 2021, 02:53:19 pm

A good precaution is to wrap all but one end of your wrench in blue painters' tape. It's easy to remove after the job is done.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #15 – June 20, 2021, 03:04:32 pm

"...wrap all but one end of your wrench in blue painters' tape."

Excellent idea, Andy!

I have, in the past, dipped parts of a tool into a liquid rubber compound (available at most hardware outlets) When the liquid dries it protects the tool from being an arc welder. But, it has a relative short life before it wears off.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #16 – June 21, 2021, 09:26:10 pm

The new Lifeline AGM batteries are in! Now I hope they work.

The shop didn't have the ability to test the capacity of the ones we took out but I did notice one of them had some slight case swelling.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #17 – June 21, 2021, 11:14:59 pm

Glad your back in action, Ted! Let’s hope this is your one and only warranty need.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #18 – June 21, 2021, 11:24:13 pm

Quote from: WhiteElk - June 21, 2021, 11:14:59 pm

Glad your back in action, Ted! Let’s hope this is your one and only warranty need.

Thank you.
It's a relief for sure.

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #19 – June 22, 2021, 12:03:15 am

Glad you’re back to normal. Now the game is afoot. Try to remember all the things that can prematurely end an AGM’s life.

Enjoy your new batteries.

Kent

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #20 – June 22, 2021, 12:13:11 am

So Kent, I don’t recall reading about your AGM saga. Any advice on what to do/not do In this regard?

Thx,

W

Re: Do house batteries need to be in place...

Reply #21 – June 22, 2021, 12:52:53 am

Warren,

As I was learning the ropes of our ‘15 RB, I had drained our AGM’s several times over the first 4 1/2 years of ownership.

The use of the two dashboard 12 volt outlets for charging phones and tablets, using the rigs 12 volt power supply to run the 12 volt TV while powering a dvd play with a power inverter...for long periods of time (sometimes unwittingly) and relying on the Blue Sky 3000i to monitor the charge level of the AGM’s all contributed to the draining of their power to damaging levels for numerous times. All fatal errors.

Over the course of several years of such torture I found myself running the engine or the generator twice a day to keep the batteries charged to acceptable levels. Not wanting to disturb others in the campgrounds, I choose to “power up” while people in camp were out and about.

Having 200 watts of solar was just not enough to keep up with power usage. Peak sun usually doesn’t happen til around noon and diminishes around 4:30 during summer hours. Mix in shade from trees and off season sun levels these conditions became nearly impossible to keep the batteries at 100%.

After speaking to Lifeline, I learned that 200 watts of Solar would require 4-6 hours of full sun to keep the batteries charged. That was possible on a good day but after draining the batts numerous times over the years and it became more and more difficult.

It was then that I took the plunge to head North to AM Solar. After the upgrade and having a better way to monitor battery charge, I’ve had no crazy discharges of my 5 Battle Born Lithium batteries. Of course the 800 watts on the roof helps too.

No more frustrating discharges. Still use the generator when the sun disappears for several days behind the clouds or trees.

Lots of perks with my new system. Now I can go exploring with the rest of the campers. 🌲

Kent

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