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23.5' tank capacities
I would like to re-open this fascinating topic!

We have only had our 1997 23.5  foot TK for a few trips, but have noticed that our black  tank is very limited in capacity. We can only go about three days with the two of us using a new seemingly very water conserving toilet very carefully. I measured the tank and determined that the total size is very close to 17 to 18 gallons , but that the actual amount of space that is being used in the tank when the gauge signals that the tank is full and that the level has reached the bottom of the white tube below the floor is only about 9 gallons. I am surprised that we are even producing 9 gallons of sewage in three days being as careful as we are. I am wondering if our experience is typical? I am surprise that Andy in his post eight years ago mentions that he can go for three weeks by himself in his vehicle with the same tank.    One curiosity I have is whether we could continue to add sewage to the tank after the red light turns on but the level is still as much as two or 3 inches below the bathroom floor;  Can anyone speak to this from personal experience?     This would add about another 25% capacity, or 4 gallons, but maybe bad things happen?   If anyone has any other fall back plans besides hauling around a second toilet or peeing in the woods, I’d love to know.     It seems like any reserve portable tank would be a messy situation.

We don’t seem to be having similar issue with grey water and fresh water capacity when boondocking, more like five days, and we could probably even improve this if we needed to.    The black tank is pretty limiting though.    
Chuck R

1997 23.5 TB “Daisy”
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #1 –
I have a 2000 TK 23.5' so perhaps the tank sizes are the same.  The specs say 24 gallons, but I have learned that the specs are not always correct.  (The ones I was given say my gas tank holds 35 gallons when in fact it holds 55!)
In any case, my husband and I could go 5 days dry camping before we needed to dump.  There are several factors that affect that.  We don't flush every time - you know the saying "if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down"?  We flush after every 3-4 uses if just urinating, unless the weather is hot then we flush more frequently to control odor.  We also use public restrooms when available, though not during the pandemic.
If you fill the bowl with clean water twice when adding chemicals it will measure 1/3 full!  So sometimes I don't fill it twice, or fill it only 2/3 full each time - if I know it will be a long period before I can dump. The sensors are not 100% reliable, and while not a pretty site I can tell by looking through the open valve if it's really full.
2000 TK
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #2 –
Quote from: seesaw60  - 
The ones I was given say my gas tank holds 35 gallons when in fact it holds 55!
When this model was available on either a Chevy or Ford chassis, the former typically came with a 35g tank, but the Ford had 55g.
The smaller than spec'd size of the black tank held with the TK until recent vintages.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #3 –
I did this on my LD mid bath and I do it on my casita.....I camp in state parks and other campgrounds with bathroom facilities. I always just pee in toilet...no poo. I put the used tissue in a lined trash can with a lid....a few drops of peppermint in the bottom of the bag keeps the urine smell undetectable...empty daily. I use the bath house....nice long hot showers....a toilet where my feet are flat on the floor...lol( I hated the mid bath) it is a nice  walk to the bathhouse.... you leave the clean up to trained professionals and the odors to the big fans in those houses. I wear shower shoes, use a puppy wee wee pad on the floor to change shoes...so nothing touches the floor...I find ....when I dump its quick, easy and no real mess.....I then add a mixture of dawn and water softener to 3 gallons of water to each grey and black water tanks . On the drive home the tanks get the washing machine action when braking ....I empty at home and I have fresh clean tanks for the next trip....
This might not be for everyone but it works for me....I never run out of water or tank space....
2017 Casita Spirit Deluxe
2016 Twin King 24ft
2017 Casita Independence Dlx
2004 Midbath 26.5
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #4 –
I ordered a 23.5' TK in early 2003; the spec sheet listed the capacity of the black tank as 24 gallons. At the time, I saw no reason to question the accuracy of this number, but after taking delivery in November and traveling/camping in the LD for a few months, the capacity seemed to be overstated! I spoke with three other owners of the model; as I recall, two had earlier TKs and one had a 2004. All reported the same experience and suspicion that the black tank capacity was incorrectly listed. I measured the tank capacity of my 2003, and confirmed that was indeed only 18 gallons. The black tank capacities of the other two 23.5' models available at the time, the FD and FL, were 24 and 28 gallons, if I recall correctly.

I spoke with Ed at the factory; he acknowledged that the black tank capacity of the TK was 18 gallons, not 24 as listed. The factory apparently had not bothered to correct the spec, either verbally to a prospective buyer or by simply crossing out "24" and writing in "18" on the spec sheet if a buyer indicated interest in the TK! From what I was hearing at the factory, LD didn't think the oversight/misprint was a BFD. I pointed out that the inaccurate listing indeed was important, because a 6 gallon variation in capacity made a difference in how long one or two could boondock without dumping!

I don't know when LD began to acknowledge that the earlier models of TK's had a black tank capacity of a paltry 18 gallons; the actual black tank capacity was increased to 24 gallons with the 2010 models.

After almost 18 years of ownership, the small size of the tank has proven to be limiting quite a few times; I've obviously learned to make the necessary adjustments, and I'm sure that others who have the "tiny tank TK" have done the same. But, for transparency, those considering older TKs should know that the black tank capacity is definitely 18 gallons, not 24 as listed.

YMMV, as always.
2003 TK has a new home
 
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #5 –
Earlier twin/kings had small black tanks, as Joan pointed out. (And yes, Ed, it IS a Big Deal!) I don't know when the factory switched to a larger black tank in that model, and the LD Pocket Guide's "Changes" list doesn't say. (It does say that the 1984 Chevy-based twin-king model has a 23-gallon black tank, which may be wrong.)

The LED "idiot light" tank gauges are well known to be... not terribly accurate. Fortunately, with the T/K you can look straight down into the tank (unlike, say, the midbath), so with practice, you can judge the level fairly well. If you fill the tank too full, you'll block the vent pipe opening on its top, and when that happens, your toilet will "burp" bad smells when you flush.

A better solution is to install SeeLevel II tank gauges, which are much more accurate as well as more precise.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
Fortunately, with the T/K you can look straight down into the tank (unlike, say, the midbath), so with practice, you can judge the level fairly well. If you fill the tank too full, you'll block the vent pipe opening on its top, and when that happens, your toilet will "burp" bad smells when you flush.

Lol great tip Andy!!

I've been ignoring the light meter since there is no way after a few uses that thing was full, could see it still had some room down there! (note, turn pump off to look down there)

I got the '95 23.5 RL which should be the same as the TK, and can confirm I can go a full week using the "let it mellow technique. Also when adding the chemicals i tent to not add extra water that takes up space. Never had issues, and haven't gotten the burp yet.
1995 23.5 Rear Lounge
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #7 –
There is no 23.5’ RL; if it’s a “ short” rig, it’s a “Front Lounge” or a “Front Dinette”. The black tank sizes on each of those had a higher capacity than the 18-gallon Twin-King, either 24 *or* 28 gallons.

2003 TK has a new home
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #8 –
Thanks for the tips!    From all that’s been said, I can see that my gauge is probably very inaccurate and that it should be possible to fill the tank up much higher than than the white drop tube as long as the vent pipe is not obstructed, within 2” of the top of the tank.     This will  give us more days of use, more in line with what a couple of you mentioned , around 5-7 days for two people boondocking with strict conservation when necessary.
Chuck R

1997 23.5 TB “Daisy”
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
There is no 23.5’ RL; if it’s a “ short” rig, it’s a “Front Lounge” or a “Front Dinette”. The black tank sizes on each of those had a higher capacity than the 18-gallon Twin-King, either 24 *or* 28 gallons.
Actually, there was a rear lounge at least as recent as '93, but I don't see it in '95. The rear was like the TK, but barrel chairs on one side.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #10 –
Thanks, Steve. I miss Terry Tanner’s collection of the many years of LD spec sheets that were posted on his Yahoo Techsnoz site.

I don’t know if the collection is available from any other source ....?
2003 TK has a new home
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #12 –
One more tip: If looking down the toilet hole with a flashlight, be sure it's on a lanyard. You don't want to drop it into that muck!
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #14 –
96 23.5 FL.
Black tank is 28 gallons, grey is 32, to total the 60 fresh tank capacity.
I have a See Level system installed that is accurate, and I can look right into the tank for a visual.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #15 –
As far as I know, the black tank capacities of the earlier 23.5' models except the TK were not inaccurately stated on LD's spec sheets.  
2003 TK has a new home
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #16 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
A better solution is to install SeeLevel II tank gauges, which are much more accurate as well as more precise.

Thank you Andy!

Another day, another must have item for my 2022 LD next year.   My shopping list of add ons is getting quite long, though this one jumps pretty close to the top of the list, hated the very rudimentary gauges on my rental RVs, laughably inaccurate.
Dave

2017 TK
Re: 23.5' tank capacities
Reply #17 –
The corrected black tank capacity for the older TK models, i.e., 18 gallons, not 24 or 28, was first listed on the 2005 model spec sheet. (Not applicable to newer TKs with the two termination valves.)
2003 TK has a new home