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Topic: New Tires And Extended Valves Question (Read 1688 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #25 –
I'll have to support Andy on this off topic reply. Copper, or any other conductor doesn't care about the direction of electron flow. The physics of 'current flow' is a lot more complicated than the metaphor of water flowing in a pipe.  Marketing hype.
    More on topic, remote tire sensors located in tires are protected from outside disturbances pretty well.  I have a 13 year old vehicle that still has two of it's 5 wheel pressure sensors still working with original batteries. Costco charged about $60 per wheel to change out three of them. They were in stock and a common item.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #26 –
Regarding the wheel covers movement of clip on simulators, Todd recommended purchasing the stud extender to maintain the covers position and thereby eliminating damage to the valve stems.

Here’s as pic of what they look like.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #27 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
Regarding the wheel covers movement of clip on simulators, Todd recommended purchasing the stud extender to maintain the covers position and thereby eliminating damage to the valve stems.

Here’s as pic of what they look like.

Kent
Kent, do you have a photo with the wheel cover on?

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #28 –
In my year of Ford wheel studs, '99, they were long enough not to need extenders, so the simulators don't budge.  I think the studs got shorter in 2000, so the extenders added another layer of complexity to fasten the simulators down. About 2016 the simulators just snap on now?   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #29 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
Rich,

This is very interesting. It reminds me of high end audio/video cables where it is important to maintain the cables direction between components.From what I understand, the electrons passing through the cables create a ‘one direction only’ passage way. If the cables are later changed to pass electrons in the opposite direction, distortion will result in the audio/video signals.


Kent

Are high-end A/V cable marked indicating direction of flow?
Just wondering.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #30 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
There are two Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tires; the "C" (not to be confused with a C-load rated tire) and the LT version. As far as I know, the LT Agilis is not a directional tire. This page may clarify the differences:

Having just purchased 7 Agilis LT tires, installed, I can verify they are NOT directional. However, America's Tire did not record the DOT numbers, which are needed to register the tires with Michelin for recall purposes. However, the date-code part of the DOT number is only on ONE side of the tire. Make certain to record these BEFORE installation! I can verify that it is impossible to read them on installed duallies if not on the exposed side.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #31 –
I found the updated inflation tables.  The key was to look on the Michelin RV Tires website (Michelin RV Tires | A Better Way Forward) and not the regular website.

Michelin RV Tires | View Michelin RV Tires load and inflation tables for...

I copied the portions relating to the 2 tires we're discussing here.

First, the directional C-Metric tire with Load Range 121

225/75R16C E
Agilis® CrossClimate® C-Metric
PSI35 40 45 5055 60 65 70 75 80
LBS Single 1585 1795 1950 2090 2290 2435 2620 2765 2950 3085
Dual 3060 3470 3765 4055 4430 4705 5070 5345 5695 5950
Second, the symmetrical LT tire with load range 115 that is very close to the M/S 2 that has been a popular choice for years.

LT225/75R16 E
Agilis® CrossClimate®
PSI404550556065707580
LBS Single165017901940206021902335244025602680
Dual300032603530375039904300444046604940
As you can see, there are some differences.  The C-Metric directional tires have a higher Load Rating and so they carry slightly more load at the same PSI when compared to the LTs.  It's not a huge difference, but I think it adds a nice margin of safety. 

From my reading, they added more Nylon to the sidewalls of the C-Metrics, making them something of a middle ground between the LT's and XPS-Ribs. 

Now to dig out the numbers from the last time I had my RV weighed.  I think I'm looking at a PSI drop of 8lbs or so in the front and rears.

Rich
'03 MB in NC
2003 MB
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #32 –
For anyone searching the archives and considering Michelin CrossClimate tires.  Here is the information I wish was available when I was buying.  It's everything a dedicated tire nerd would want to know about the reasons behind the new odd looking design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT2odY3C6Og&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained


Does it matter for RVs?  I think it depends on how you use your rig.  Most of us don't run RV tires down to the wear limits, so that part might not be as important to us.  If you only use your rig in the summer, winter performance might not matter as much to you.  If you find yourself crossing a mountain pass early or late in the season, or use the RV as a base for outdoor winter sports, you might really appreciate the better cold-weather performance. 

Either way, it's fun (for me, anyway) to learn a little more about the tires on my rig.

Rich

2003 MB
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #33 –
The Michelin Cross Climate is available in LT225/75R/16, load range E, but I didn't see (on the Michelin site or on Tire Rack) that the Cross Climate 2 with the V-tread is available in the appropriate light truck size and load range for the Ford E450.

?

2003 TK has a new home
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #34 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
The Michelin Cross Climate is available in LT225/75R/16, load range E, but I didn't see (on the Michelin site or on Tire Rack) that the Cross Climate 2 with the V-tread is available in the appropriate light truck size and load range for the Ford E450.

?


It is confusing. 

I don't know if the CrossClimate 2 is available for the e450. 

Some guessing here....

The Agelis CrossClimate C-Metric seems to take the CrossClimate idea/technology/philosophy described in the video and applies it to a truck tire.  The sidewalls are quite different, which I think is additional strength/reinforcement.

Michelin lists the CrossClimate C-metric as Load range E in some places. (click tire specs, then select 275/75R/16C) 
Tire & Retread Selector | Michelin Truck

In other places they seem to use the european load rating of 121/120.  Perhaps this is why 3rd party sites don't always show them as Load Range E. 

More on the european spec here: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=312

I _think_ the 121/120 spec is rated for slightly more load than Load Range E, which is reflected in the inflation tables (first link above, then Load and Pressure, then the tire size). 

Michelin could be clearer on all of this, for sure.

Rich


 
2003 MB
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #35 –
I had a slow leak in one of my extenders from not being held in the center of the wheel hole, and rubbing on the wheel.  So I ordered some rubber grommets from BORG which keep the extended valve stem centered.
I also have had great service from Ramon’s Commercial Tire Shop in San Jose. They specialize in trucks and RV’s
2001 26.5 Rear Bath
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #36 –
"I had a slow leak in one of my extenders from not being held in the center of the wheel hole, and rubbing on the wheel.  So I ordered some rubber grommets from BORG which keep the extended valve stem centered."
---
I can't say for sure, of course, but it appears that your long valves were not installed correctly in the first place, i.e., using the rubber grommets (supplied in the kit) placed in the wheel hole to support the long inside dual valves as they present to the outside. I've heard several reports of this happening when an installer doesn't read the instructions and leaves the support grommets in the box.

Over the past several years, I've posted multiple times on "long valves" ; here's a link to some of them:

https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?action=search;sa=results

Quite few owners have also posted on this topic, and I suggest doing a search for a wide variety of experiences.

YMMV, as always.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #37 –
Is this the Tireman extenders we are talking about?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #38 –
Greg

Here is the link for the company I used to purchase Borg Tire Valves.  I have no affiliation with this company other than purchasing their products.  As Joan says "the post's on this topic are endless".

BORG Equipment & Supply Corp. Inc. - Automotive Equipment & Supplies

Best upgrade I ever made.  Checking tire pressure is no longer a dredged task.

Tony R. (aka codefour)
Tony R
2010 LD RB - Sold to another happy LD Family
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #39 –
Thanks, Tony. The original owner of Bossa Nova actually had the Tireman valve extenders installed just after he took delivery in June of 2017. It was probably one of the last jobs Tireman did before retiring as he met David in the parking lot of the Kmart in Ridgecrest to make the purchase of the extenders, and then led him to a local tire shop to install them.

 The reason I ask the question is that one of the extenders is rubbing on the side of the wheel access hole and I’m wondering if there’s a way to center it in the hole, after the fact.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #40 –
This is a photo of one of my tires with the Borg Valve, and the Rubber Centering Insert installed.

Mentioned before numerous times in the Forum before, "my shop also did not read the instructions," and on the first go did not install the Rubber Insert (hence the valve was very near the steel hole in the wheel/simulator.  Many tire installers have not seen such a device.

After installing the Rubber insert - all of the stems were aligned nearly perfectly. it is a MUST install item  and perhaps you can just purchase that part(s) from The Tire Store in the previous link.  And the nice part about this particular store, a real live person is usually available to speak with for direction and advise.

Cheers!

Tony R (aka codefour)
Tony R
2010 LD RB - Sold to another happy LD Family
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #41 –
"one of the extenders is rubbing on the side of the wheel access hole and I'm wondering if there's a way to center it in the hole"
---
Is the long valve rubbing against the hole in the wheel or the hole in the wheel cover"?

If the valve (you're referring the long valve from the inside dual, yes?) was installed with the grommet, i.e., the grommet set firm into the hole in the wheel and the valve centered through the hole in the grommet, the valve should not touch the wheel hole at all. (Ditto for the outside dual's valve, despite it not requiring a grommet.)

The snap-on wheel covers in later models (I think these came on 2007 models; they may be the same as on later model years.) can and do migrate around the wheel, and they will cut through a long valve. If the valve is positioned correctly in the wheel (this is critical), you have a choice of enlarging the holes in the wheel cover (stainless steel, so it takes work with a Dreml or grinder, or a plasma cutter), ditching the wheel covers altogether, or slipping a short "sleeve" of 3/8" plastic tubing over the valve and paying very close attention to wheel cover migration.

Even on my 2003 with the "nutted" wheel covers, it was necessary to enlarge the holes in the wheel cover to prevent the valve from being chafed or cut.

LED | Washington | Kaper II - HOME (KII) was the manufacturer of the wheel covers used on LDs for many years; if they still are, you might try contacting them for suggestions.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #42 –
I guess I need to pop the wheel cover off and take a closer look but this is how it looks from the outside. The passenger side is the one that is rubbing on the wheel cover. The driver side looks OK.

To check the air on the passenger side I’ve been pulling the stem away from the wheel cover slightly so I can get the air nozzle or tire gauge on, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to check it.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #43 –
Greg

Congrats on the beautiful new coach!  Your perseverance paid off.

I wonder whether the valve stem or it’s rubber mounting plug may not be seated properly in the rim. Either that or, as Joan suggests, the wheel cover is not seated properly on the rim.

Let us know what you find out.

Warren
Warren
2019 MB “Dream Catcher”
Jeep Wrangler JL
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #44 –
When I enlarged the photo Greg,  it appears that you already have the rubber grommets installed on the wheels.

Are these valves rubber?  I cant tell by the photo.

I originally had rubber valves installed on the dual tires, and replaced them with Borg brass/chrome valve stems (with the grommets).  Actually I installed new Borg Valves on all tires.

I am told that the Borg Valves can be bent slightly to better fit the center of the hole by an experienced installer.

Good luck! And yes you have a great looking LD.

Cheers!

Tony R (aka codefour)


Tony R
2010 LD RB - Sold to another happy LD Family
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #45 –
Quote from: codefour  - 
I am told that the Borg Valves can be bent slightly to better fit the center of the hole by an experienced installer.

Brass stems can be bent to fit, best done before the stem is installed. Bending a stem while installed may damage the stem's rubber seals, causing a leak.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #46 –
Quote from: rich  - 
For anyone searching the archives and considering Michelin CrossClimate tires.  Here is the information I wish was available when I was buying.  It's everything a dedicated tire nerd would want to know about the reasons behind the new odd looking design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT2odY3C6Og&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained

With the asymmetrical tread design that must rotate in one direction only, tire rotation is going to a problem if running stem extenders.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #47 –
Quote from: Joan  - 

'Extenders' - Rubber hoses, usually encased in stainless steel mesh, that attach to the OEM valves in each of the dual rear wheels. The 'air fill' end of the hose extender presents to the outside of the wheel, and the hose end is usually attached to the wheel cover 'hub' with a bracket. Example:

Wheel Masters 8002 Stainless Steel Valve Extenders 16" to 19.5" Wheels Hub Mount

A conscientious installer in a reliable shop can replace a tire without removing the long valves from the wheel. Many don't want to do this because it takes a little more time, and a good deal more care, and requires that the installer know what s/he is doing and not slam the bejeezus out of the wheel and tire when plopping it on the tire mounting machine!

An owner can mitigate the outcome of the tire changing procedure by discussing the issues involved in making sure that the long valves are not damaged (snapped off, removed, tweaked, cut) with the shop before the job is done. The owner should remove the wheel covers before taking the rig to the shop; this is particularly important with rigs with bolt-on wheel covers. It's rare that a shop will know how to remove and replace these correctly! An owner might also want to ask to 'supervise' the job (if possible) and definitely insist on checking the installation before paying and leaving.

YMMV, as always. Good luck. 

I realize this thread is a bit old, but I'm going to reply anyway. I have two questions.

Joan, thank you for that very informative post! Do you have trouble with tire shops because you're a woman? My problem has been I'm talking to the guy in the front office, but it's the guys in the shop that are doing the repairs. How does one supervise in the shop?

I'm learning more about extenders than I ever wanted to know. What are the four little items to which the arrow points in the attached screenshot of the Wheel Masters Stainless Steel Valve Extenders?

Judy Dewey
2003 26' RK
 
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #48 –
"What are the four little items to which the arrow..."

Those are 'Pop Rivets', used to secure the brackets to the wheel cover. A special tool is required.

Just my opinion but one which many forum members would agree with, use solid extended valve stems instead of the flexible extenders which will give you grief over time.  ;)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: New Tires And Extended Valves Question
Reply #49 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
"What are the four little items to which the arrow..."

Those are 'Pop Rivets', used to secure the brackets to the wheel cover. A special tool is required.

Just my opinion but one which many forum members would agree with, use solid extended valve stems instead of the flexible extenders which will give you grief over time.  ;)

Thank you for the answer, Steve.

Yes, I've been reading here about the extenders. I just replaced the old flexible extenders with new flexible extenders and am having trouble already. Sigh. When I get home, I'll get a shop I trust to install the solid extender valve stems. On my way from the winter in Tucson (lovely!) back to Idaho (still cold...brrr).

-Judy
Judy Dewey
2003 26' RK