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Topic: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues (Read 2189 times) previous topic - next topic
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Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Is anyone else having trouble getting into the LD Companion? I tried to login and get a blogger message that I'm logged into my gmail account but that I haven't been invited to the blog.

Thanks!

Ron
2009 31' IB "BoonDoggle"
2014 Honda CRV Towed
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #1 –
I noticed the same yesterday, and still today.

Rich
2003 MB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #2 –
The message I get is permission denied, it doesn't look like you haven't been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.

Ron
2009 31' IB "BoonDoggle"
2014 Honda CRV Towed
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #4 –
I was just in it yesterday. However, I only joined it a few months ago.
2002 TK 24ft
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #5 –
The same issue today. Wondered what changed, the site does not recognize my sign in, which is strange, it never required a login before.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Ron45761  - 
The message I get is permission denied, it doesn't look like you haven't been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.

Ron
Try it again now that Steve has fixed the daily digest issue. Could be related???

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #7 –
Be careful.  If it got hacked, requiring login info might be a hacker's way of collecting info.

I will email Don to ask him about it.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #8 –
For what it is worth, I have an old Blogspot page, the same platform as the Companion.  I just went to it to see if, perhaps, Google was doing something at their end.  My blog opened without the need to log in.  I also went to the Companion without using this site as a path to it, and got the login message.  So, whatever is happening with the Companion, it seems to not be related to this site or to Google.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #9 –
The Companion will be offline until the mods here explain to my satisfaction why the used price list was removed without any notice. It was bad enough it was not updated now it's gone. I know the prices do not reflect the asking prices for the last year or so. But, those people are either scam types or not connected to reality. There is already enough insanity going on, LDO does not have to roll over and be a part of it.

Who are the mods? I know Larry Wade is or was. I am thinking there are some that are not LD owners, but maybe that's not right.
I want to know who they are. And how they justified removing the used price list.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #10 –
I am the lead Lazy Daze moderator and Judie Ashford and Larry Wade are co-moderators. At my recommendation and with my co-moderators agreement we decided to remove the used Lazy Daze asking price list because it was out of date and because we have decided not to engage in used Lazy Daze price speculation due the irrational RV resale market. We felt that in this strange world of, as you put it, Don, scam, unreal and insane types, LDOG should not be offering up price guidelines for the weird set to misuse or misinterpret. Also, there is the issue that despite all sorts of disclaimers and caveats, it's only a matter of time before someone will want to hold our feet to the fire over a suggested resale price. 

Anyone who wants to sell their Lazy Daze can surf the internet RV sales sites and get an idea of what the going selling prices for LDs are.  

Don, I hope you understand and accept our reasoning.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #11 –
Hi Don,

I'm not a mod, but I am one of the people who has said in the past that the used asking price list was growing less and less useful each year. 

For years the price list was determined by taking the list price of a new LD and discounting that price by a fixed % for each year since the coach was new.  The fixed % was calculated from a survey of used prices collected around 2010 I think. 

This seemed reasonable to me because a new LD coach was substantially the same as one that was 5 or even 10 years old.  The Ford Chassis hadn't changed in a long time and the Ford V10 engine had been mostly the same for almost 20 years. 

To me, the switch to a new Ford Chassis in 2021 is substantial.  Everything has been substantially modernized and some of the standard features today weren't even imagined in 2003 when my LD was built.  I would LOVE to have the new engine in my coach.
 Basing the value of an older LD on the price of a new chassis model doesn't make as much sense to me as it did before the chassis update.

Adding to that, the used RV market has changed substantially over the past year.  Things changed to the point that the used price guide didn't match the actual used market in any reasonable way.  The guide prices were substantially lower than what was actually happening out in the marketplace. 

Combine those two (new chassis  and market changes) and the used price guide no longer made sense to me.  Instead of helping people make a used purchase, the guide became a bit of an impediment since it no longer matched the real world situation.  People could accuse this group of trying to guide prices in favor of buyers and against current owners.   

As I said, I'm not a mod and I'm not privy to the reasons behind the change.  I would welcome an updated used price guide, perhaps one that accounts for the new chassis and considers the changing used RV market, particularly as (if) things return to 'normal' over the next year or two. 

The LD Companion has been perhaps the most useful collection of curated information for owners.  I frequently pointed people to the Companion when they had questions.   The LD community would be poorer if it were not to return.

Rich
2003 MB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #12 –
LDOG should not be offering up price guidelines for the weird set to misuse or misinterpret.
Huh? The weird set is going to point to a lower price and say "look we are asking twice that?"
More likely they would object to a realistic price.

It seems you, as LDO, want to roll over and not take notice of the insanity?
I respect you and all that you do, but I am strongly opposed to your unilateral decision.

Also, there is the issue that despite all sorts of disclaimers and caveats, it's only a matter of time before someone will want to hold our feet to the fire over a suggested resale price.
You are apprehensive over personal liability? Perhaps that is the crux of the matter.

Anyone who wants to sell their Lazy Daze can surf the internet RV sales sites and get an idea of what the going selling prices for LDs are. 
They can see insane asking prices. What are they selling for is unknown.

I see some logic in Rich's argument. However, the same could be said for the transition from Ford to Chevy to Ford.

I am of the mind that we have a duty to assert that a 1970 model is not worth $27,000. Or put another way, no one with any real knowledge of the market would think of paying it.


 
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #13 –
Quote from: rich  - 
I'm not a mod, but I am one of the people who has said in the past that the used asking price list was growing less and less useful each year. 

For years the price list was determined by taking the list price of a new LD and discounting that price by a fixed % for each year since the coach was new.  The fixed % was calculated from a survey of used prices collected around 2010 I think. 

This seemed reasonable to me because a new LD coach was substantially the same as one that was 5 or even 10 years old.  The Ford Chassis hadn't changed in a long time and the Ford V10 engine had been mostly the same for almost 20 years. 

To me, the switch to a new Ford Chassis in 2021 is substantial.  Everything has been substantially modernized and some of the standard features today weren't even imagined in 2003 when my LD was built.  I would LOVE to have the new engine in my coach.
 Basing the value of an older LD on the price of a new chassis model doesn't make as much sense to me as it did before the chassis update.

Adding to that, the used RV market has changed substantially over the past year.  Things changed to the point that the used price guide didn't match the actual used market in any reasonable way.  The guide prices were substantially lower than what was actually happening out in the marketplace. 

Combine those two (new chassis  and market changes) and the used price guide no longer made sense to me.  Instead of helping people make a used purchase, the guide became a bit of an impediment since it no longer matched the real world situation.  People could accuse this group of trying to guide prices in favor of buyers and against current owners.   

As I said, I'm not a mod and I'm not privy to the reasons behind the change.  I would welcome an updated used price guide, perhaps one that accounts for the new chassis and considers the changing used RV market, particularly as (if) things return to 'normal' over the next year or two. 

Rich, I agree that the price list is growing less useful each year especially, as you mentioned, with the updated Ford chassis.  I'm not sure how to account for that.  As you may know, I'm the one that has been doing the updates the last few years, based on the formula that Barry Barnes came up with through his used asking price survey.  I actually did a 2021 update based on these formulas which I would be happy to share with anyone off forum.  Just shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send it to you so you can judge for yourself.

I think we all need to respect the wishes of the moderators on what they want to present publicly on the forum, even if there is disagreement.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #14 –
With the lack of the actual selling prices in recent times being reported, it's hard to predict asking prices when there is ls little to no recent input on what they are selling for.  And as we all know, the RV market has gone bonkers in the last year.
Many LD owners have had multiple inquiries about buying their rigs from strangers, it's has happened to us this year. LDs are hot right now and can demand serious increases in prices. I don't think the forum should be involved in the feeding frenzy.
The addition of the 2021 chassis has and will change the selling game again.

The list did not take into consideration what conditions and upgrades apply. We have no idea what these variables are. Online sites that list values of cars usually have a range of prices, for any car, based upon the condition.
If every member who sold or paid for their rig reported its condition and selling price, the sampling would still be a fraction of the actual numbers of used LDs sold. If the list had estimates based on actual, recent sale prices, I would agree with keeping it but there is no way to accurately do this that I can offer.
Estimated prices, based on so few recent and outdated sale price samples are worthless and misleading data.

The LDOF exists for LD owners and wannabes to meet and learn about travel and our beloved motorhomes.
Your Companion site is a detailed compilation of the facts of life owning an LD, you have done a huge amount of work on it and it would be a shame to lose it.

It's the responsibility of the moderators, and all of the senior members, to keep the information posted on the site correct, there is much to know about travel and LDs, so much of it has been disused here in-depth.
If we cannot provide accurate information about estimated selling prices, it should not be part of the website.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #15 –
I can no longer access the Lazy Daze Companion website. I keep getting a message that says the blog is open to invited readers only. How do I get an invite. I could not see any place to contact the blog owner to request an invite. It is a valuable resource. What happened?

Thanks!
Randy
Captain of The Wanderer
2005 RB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #16 –
Randy, you will find the posts before yours informative.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #17 –
I don't know quite what to think about the disagreement going on. At the moment, I don't agree with Don withdrawing the Companion website; I think that he and Ted, (wxtoad) created it so they probably technically own its content even though many members of this forum have contributed to it. I hope Don shows some flexibility and allows access to it.

BUT, I STRONGLY agree with him that the the used price guide should remain here. Maybe it needs some modifications to account for the recent jump in price for a new Lazy Daze but that doesn't mean that the old tables are irrelevant. If anything, that price guide helped maintain a higher value on LDs owned by current members and at least it had some basis for pricing. Without that guide, WHAT are you going to use to establish a price when the time comes to sell your rig. Do you really think the NADA RV guide offers a fair guide to valuation?!

I am not an attorney and I don't understand what the "holding our feet to the fire" thought is? It was always my understanding that the used pricing guide was just that, a guide. It helped establish some basis for pricing that helped both the seller and buyer reach an understanding. Where do you folks suggest we go now?

I think the current situation of a withdrawn price guide and the loss of the Companion is a double loss situation. Nobody wins and everybody loses. Come on people.....we are better than this!

Steve K
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #19 –
The used price guide is simple to replicate.  I'll post below how to calculate the values if anyone thinks it would help them.

Perhaps someone would be interested in hosting it elsewhere if they believe it's an asset to the community.

Prices are calculated as follows:  Take the current price for a new LD of the size you are considering (New Price).  Determine the age in years of the coach you are looking at (age).   (^ here means raised to the exponent 'age' or multiply by .9094 'age' times)

Used price = New Price * .9094 ^ age

For example.  I'm looking at a 3 year old MB coach.  The New Price today is $114,750

The suggested price for a 3 year old version (2018 model) would be:
$114,750 * .9094 ^ 3 = $86301
or
$114,750 * .9094 *.9094 * .9094 = $86301

That's it.  It's not a complicated model.

Hope that helps,
Rich

P.S. - All models are wrong - Wikipedia

 
2003 MB
 
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #20 –
Quote from: rich  - 
The used price guide is simple to replicate.  I'll post below how to calculate the values if anyone thinks it would help them.

Perhaps someone would be interested in hosting it elsewhere if they believe it's an asset to the community.

Prices are calculated as follows:  Take the current price for a new LD of the size you are considering (New Price).  Determine the age in years of the coach you are looking at (age).   (^ here means raised to the exponent 'age' or multiply by .9094 'age' times)

Used price = New Price * .9094 ^ age

For example.  I'm looking at a 3 year old MB coach.  The New Price today is $114,750

The suggested price for a 3 year old version (2018 model) would be:
$114,750 * .9094 ^ 3 = $86301
or
$114,750 * .9094 *.9094 * .9094 = $86301


Almost, Rich.  The 2017 model would be $86, 301.  A 2018 model would be $94,898.  Reason being there was no 2020 model.  But then again, all models are wrong, right?   ;)
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #21 –
First: whatever you think about the asking price guide, holding the Lazy Daze Companion hostage to get your way is not the act of a good citizen.

Second: the idea that "we have a duty to assert that a 1970 model is not worth $27,000" is wrong. An object is worth what you can sell it for. If the market is such that a 1970 LD sells for $27,000, then that is reality. It's not our duty to tell the world, in a list that will be seen as authoritative, what we think prices should be. That would be futile and dishonest.

Third, the relatively small number of Lazy Dazes in existence, and the even smaller number resold, make any such list questionable. The sample size is just too small to reliably extrapolate from.

We'd all like to have an accurate guide to used LD pricing. Unfortunately, it just isn't possible to create one, and it's misleading to pretend that we can. I agree with the moderators: If we cannot provide accurate information about estimated selling prices, it should not be part of the website.

But most important, I'll return to my first point: whatever you think about the asking price guide, holding the Lazy Daze Companion hostage to get your way is wrong. Feel free to discuss how the Forum is run, but don't punish all the members just because you disagree with the moderators' actions.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #22 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
Almost, Rich.  The 2017 model would be $86, 301.  A 2018 model would be $94,898.  Reason being there was no 2020 model.  But then again, all models are wrong, right?   ;)


I wouldn't look at it that way, but others are free to.  It does highlight part of the problem that comes with the chassis switch.  

My 2003 didn't magically stop depreciating for a year because the factory didn't produce a 2020 model.

On the flip side, is a coach built and delivered in 2020 (called a 2021) worth just as much as one built and delivered in 2021 (also called a 2021).  I don't know....   

A similar problem occurs when you compare a December 2013 coach to a January 2014 version.  Things get even murkier when you learn that the January 2014 model is on a Ford 2013 chassis.  I'm not even sure when LD rolls over the model year.  Cars change well before the calendar changes.  

The whole exercise is a crude approximation at best. 

Rich

 
2003 MB
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #23 –
Quote from: rich  - 

. . . . A similar problem occurs when you compare a December 2013 coach to a January 2014 version.  Things get even murkier when you learn that the January 2014 model is on a Ford 2013 chassis.  I'm not even sure when LD rolls over the model year.  Cars change well before the calendar changes.  
The whole exercise is a crude approximation at best. 
Rich

 
You may have a point in the general.  However, in the 2013 timeframe,   my 31 IB for which I contracted in early November 2013 was the last 27/31 frame that Todd said they had for the year.  Other years may differ.
joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Lazy Daze Companion Access Issues
Reply #24 –
The last several posts show pretty clearly why the moderators place little trust in the model. The model is based on a clear, straightforward equation.  If you wish to rely on that, copy down the equation, save it, and you will forever have the pricing model information that was removed from the site.  However, in the four posts that followed, nobody - not one person - felt that the model could be accurately applied.

Andy reflected my feelings about this best.  Don and Ted created something monumental that has been of great value to us.  If Don choses to remove his legacy contribution, that is his right, but I would be disappointed by that.  As to him trying to force the reinstatement of the pricing model, it is moot.  With the posting of the formula, the pricing model is available to all, with no need for inclusion in this forum.  So, Don, copy down and save the formula, and you have what you wanted.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB