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Topic: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath (Read 1070 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #25 –
Quote from: cli288  - 
This breaker is automatic reset type, normally requires no manual intervention. The only time it needs attention is a serious short circuit occurred, forcing it to constantly trigger. In that case, a detailed troubleshoot is needed to find where is the short in the 12v circuits.
That is not the breaker that is in our, Tony's, and Jim's LD.

Do you have a name?

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #26 –
My 2004 MB has the identical circuit breaker in the exact same location but does not have any button on it to reset. The lazy Daze manual also says a manual reset breaker but it is actually an automatically one. I bought my MB from John and Mary White who used to be members of this group. They were the original owner. I am also puzzled.

2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #27 –
Quote from: cli288  - 
I am also puzzled.
Me too. Ours has a reset button. It is a Type III breaker. Here is a description ... "Type III is where you'll generally find manual and push-to-trip breakers. All Type III breakers will have a visual indication that the breaker is tripped on the body to better diagnose short circuits and other issues. It's also generally where you'll find the highest amps. For safety purposes, Type III are probably the most effective." "Type I is automatic, while Type II is also automatic in a sense. Most Type II breakers will reset when the ignition is turned off, or the overload is removed, making them perfect for systems that only need breakers when the engine is on."

The reset button may be difficult to see in some floor plans.

Have you ever tripped your breaker? We never have.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #28 –
Ladies and Gentlemen & Don Malpas (who has volunteered the post these in the Companion)

I can only attest that these photos below are for a 27' - 2010 Rear Bath Model.  Can't help you for other models.

Some of you are confusing the massive 150 amp Photo #6 (or similarly high Buss with no reset) with the 12V Secret Reset Breaker.

For some reason the 12V Secret Reset Breaker is located within 18 inches of the battery box in the LD Manual.

If nothing  comes of this other than you seek and find  your own "Secret 12V Button" on your unit.

Covid-19 does strange stuff to us these days.  This is like an old timey Mystery or Scavenger Hunt.  Have fun my friends and take your minds off of the other.

Most respectfully,

Tony R. (aka codefour)
Tony R
2010 LD RB - Sold to another happy LD Family
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #29 –
Sorry for some duplicate photos above.  I got happy fingers all of a sudden!

Tony R (aka codefour)
Tony R
2010 LD RB - Sold to another happy LD Family
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #30 –
Here is the manual reset button in my (former) 2003 MB. This is behind the panel to the left of the drawer underneath the refrigerator. You'll have to remove the drawer to get to it. I had trouble finding it, too, but thanks to Andy was finally able to locate it. I think most of you are looking right at it but are missing it because it's difficult to see. I did that, too, initially.
Fern Horst
Formerly owned:
1979 TK - "Dorie" (2007-2012)
2003 MB - "Absaroka" (2012-2019)
 
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #31 –
Charles and Greg:  The picture supplied by Greg  (reply 13, last picture) shows two side by side breakers in the battery box. The left one says on it '90 Amps'. The picture cuts off the left breaker, so I can't read the current rating.  The 42 volts reflects the maximum voltage. More than enough for 12V DC batteries.  The one on the right has bigger wires, so I'm going to assume it is a 150 Amp breaker.  (When Kent replaced his AGM's with 5 BB lithium batteries, he gave me the leftover breakers/switches. )
   One was 150 Amps. it comes from the engine alternator, to protect the wire. I assume the alternator has a fuse to protect it, closer to the alternator in the Ford wiring. It can't be switched off, but can be reset if it trips.  The 90 Amp goes to the converter/distribution (fuses) center. It has a yellow or red button. When pressed, it shuts off, and a lever flips out on the left side (in this picture). pushing in the lever, resets the breaker.
   Older motorhomes like mine came with self resetting breakers. They would trip, but when they cooled off would reset. If there was a short it would trip again and reset continually. If the overload was temporary, i.e. you plugged something in like a 12 Vdc toaster oven, or 12v hair drier, then the self reset feature would cure the problem.  Many cars had headlights with a similar breaker. in the '80's having both headlights shut off at once was deemed a safety hazard. So newer cars have a separate breaker for each headlight. I have followed cars at night with one headlight shutting off, and coming back on. 
    Newer motorhomes than my '99 have the resettable breakers with the little black button. Now you need to know that there is one, and where it is, but LD hasn't updated the labeling. More modern LD's have the lever action, vapor and water proof breakers like Greg had in that picture.

Don:  Breakers heat up while operating. The heat is a function of the current the breaker was designed to control. Too much current, trips the breaker and requires a reset, and notifies you that there may be a problem. Sometimes breakers running at the edge of their envelope will change characteristics and trip too soon. Usually it is a fucntion of too many things running at once. Such as an inverter, converter/charger, water pump, audio visual TV/sound system, chargers, etc.  Individual loads on each branch circuit may be ok, and not 'pop' the separate fuses, but taken together, may trip the main breaker at the battery.
   I installed my own solar panels and controller. I put in a 30 amp, but my panels can only produce 9 amps. It is to protect the wires. They are connected into the distribution panel. I'm expanding my solar by 200 watts, so I will increase my breaker, and insure that it has a shut off type for when I change out the batteries. (to protect the SB3000i as noted in that manual)     RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #32 –
I just reconfirmed the "secret breaker" is the automatic type. In fact, I realize this in 2014 when I upgraded our solar electric system and found this breaker. I installed a 440 AH lithium battery pack, a TriStar solar charger, and a Magnum 2kw pure sine wave inverter/charger in this location below the fridge. I can no longer show a picture of this "secret breaker" without remove some of these stuff. However I did purchase a spare breaker just in case the automatic breaker malfunctions. The photo was shown in my previous post.

I think either Mothership installed this automatic breaker or someone changed it when Mr. and Mrs. White have the first single solar panel system put in. Anyway, this discussion help many owners realize this breaker's location and important function protect the 12v electric system.
2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #33 –
I forgot to mention we purchased our 2004 MB from Mr. and Mrs. White in 2011 at 92k+ miles. Started our full timer tour of USA in 2012. Our MB is now at 170k+ miles. I am new to this group to learn while contributing.
2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #34 –
well, this is getting confusing to this old man.

I have a 2007MB and I know the reset switch is under the refer. Someone posted a picture of it above.

I also have this thing in the battery box. Always wondered what it was. You know?
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #35 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
well, this is getting confusing to this old man.

I have a 2007MB and I know the reset switch is under the refer. Someone posted a picture of it above.

I also have this thing in the battery box. Always wondered what it was. You know?

Don,
This is just one of the breakers. This one is easy to see. The other one is located inside. You must remove the drawer below the fridge. Then look leftward, the small breaker is there. You can see it with a flashlight. A clear photo of this breaker is attached in Fern Horst's post on this page.



2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #36 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Charles and Greg:  The picture supplied by Greg  (reply 13, last picture) shows two side by side breakers in the battery box. The left one says on it '90 Amps'. The picture cuts off the left breaker, so I can't read the current rating.  The 42 volts reflects the maximum voltage. More than enough for 12V DC batteries.  The one on the right has bigger wires, so I'm going to assume it is a 150 Amp breaker.  (When Kent replaced his AGM's with 5 BB lithium batteries, he gave me the leftover breakers/switches. )

Your assumption is correct, Ron. Here is the right side breaker.  Don, I’m glad I’m not the only one who gets confused with electrical stuff!
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #37 –
OK, I asked what it was, you said a breaker. I should have asked how does it come into play?
One has Thermal Circuit Breaker on it. I guess that means it gets hot, it trips. What gets it hot? A short? Can it be reset? How is it different from the secret one inside?
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #38 –
The circuit "breaker" protect electric system by monitoring electric current with a calibrated resister, when the current exceeds a pre-determined level, say 50amps, the heat generated by the resister will trigger a electric magnet to cutoff the electric current (load). This protect the circuits from fire when a short or overload occurs.

In the case of a short occurred, the breaker would be triggered. You must press the reset button to reconnect the electric circuit after repair the short.
2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #39 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Charles and Greg:  The picture supplied by Greg  (reply 13, last picture) shows two side by side breakers in the battery box. The left one says on it '90 Amps'. The picture cuts off the left breaker, so I can't read the current rating.  The 42 volts reflects the maximum voltage. More than enough for 12V DC batteries.  The one on the right has bigger wires, so I'm going to assume it is a 150 Amp breaker.  (When Kent replaced his AGM's with 5 BB lithium batteries, he gave me the leftover breakers/switches. )
RonB
Ron, you are correct. The breaker on the right in that picture (the one cutoff) is a PN 184150F 150A 42V thermal circuit breaker. It is installed in the cable from the house battery positive terminal to the DC Power Contactor in the engine compartment. The breaker LD installed in our coach is a 120 Amp version of the same type.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #40 –
OK, So after 13 years I know what the black thing in the battery box is and that it can be reset by pressing on it.
But, it seems to duplicate the hidden breaker.

Larry seems to allude to that
It looks like LD finally got smart and put the thermal breaker where it can be easily accessed.
It's something an electrically handy person could add to an older LD, replacing the hidden breaker.

Same function?


Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #41 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
OK, So after 13 years I know what the black thing in the battery box is and that it can be reset by pressing on it.
But, it seems to duplicate the hidden breaker.
No, it is in addition to the "hidden" breaker. The "hidden" breaker protects a different circuit than the breaker in the battery box does in older LDs like ours.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #42 –
No, it is in addition to the "hidden" breaker. The "hidden" breaker protects a different circuit than the breaker in the battery box does in older LDs like ours.

Charles

OK, this is starting to make sense to me and that's scary.
I take it the digram is from the owner's manual - too lazy to go out in the cold to see.
Thanks for that.

So the breaker in the battery compartment protects the batteries from too many amps coming from the alternator?
And the breaker inside protects against fire from too many amps coming inside.

Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #43 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
I take it the digram is from the owner's manual - too lazy to go out in the cold to see.
Thanks for that.

So the breaker in the battery compartment protects the batteries from too many amps coming from the alternator?
And the breaker inside protects against fire from too many amps coming inside.

Yes, as I stated the diagram is from our 2007 LD. Your manual has the same diagram.

No, there is no alternator in the diagram. The alternator has it's own fuse for protection of the Ford chassis and also a voltage regulator.

The orange exciter wire on the DC Contactor in the diagram comes from the ignition switch. It simply triggers the DC Contactor to connect the house battery bank to the chassis battery so the engine alternator can also charge the house battery bank when the engine is running.

As already stated, both these breakers protect the LD wiring, not the Ford. They are protecting the primary 12V circuits in the house part of of your LD. The Ford chassis already has such protection for itself as if comes from Ford.

Both these breakers protect from excessive and possibly catastrophic current draw or shorts in the primary 12V systems in your LD that could result in fire and/or destruction. The 12V fuses in the power center do the same for each secondary circuit they are on but at much lower levels.

Your house battery bank can deliver much more energy that a standard auto starting battery is capable of.

That is why the house breakers are such key electrical protection mechanisms for your LD.

Charles







Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #44 –
"both these breakers protect the LD wiring, not the Ford. They are protecting the primary 12V circuits in the house part of of your LD."

Thanks for clarifying, Charles. What I don't understand is why there are two breakers protecting the 12 VDC systems. That means the 12V systems must be split into two branches, one per breaker. This doesn't jibe with what I remember from my 2003 midbath. In that rig, all 12 V power came from a single battery wire feeding into the Parallax power center. A single 12V breaker, mounted under the refrigerator, protected that wire.

It sounds as if things must have changed since my midbath was built. Can you help me understand what each of the two breakers under discussion here protects?
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #45 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
"both these breakers protect the LD wiring, not the Ford. They are protecting the primary 12V circuits in the house part of of your LD."

Thanks for clarifying, Charles. What I don't understand is why there are two breakers protecting the 12 VDC systems. That means the 12V systems must be split into two branches, one per breaker. This doesn't jibe with what I remember from my 2003 midbath. In that rig, all 12 V power came from a single battery wire feeding into the Parallax power center. A single 12V breaker, mounted under the refrigerator, protected that wire.

It sounds as if things must have changed since my midbath was built. Can you help me understand what each of the two breakers under discussion here protects?
Andy, replying via my cell phone (first time). We're dining outside at an establishment that has been banned from doing so. We're in Southern California. I will give a proper response tomorrow. You are the electrical guru here, not I.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #46 –
I dug out my 2004 MB circuit diagram which is slight different from the 2007 version. The diode isolator in 04MB was replaced by an ignition excited contact switch in 07MB. The large breaker on the left (100A in 04MB) protects dc wiring circuits to the diode isolator/contact switch and wiring to the gas generator. Any short occurred in that side of the wiring would trigger this breaker. The 50 amp breaker on the right protects the rest of dc distribution circuits in the motorhome.

Interesting to see Mothership made these changes over time...
2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #47 –
Another reason mothership select a large breaker (100 or 120 amp) is the 12v dc starter in the gas generator can draw very high current, therefore, require large capacity, while the rest of motorhome require protection at much lower current capacity.
2004 Mid Bath,
2007 Jeep Liberty Towed
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #48 –
Well, there seems to be no end to this. I was going to include some of this conversation about the function of the breakers along with the pictures showing the location of the hidden breakers. But, while interesting, the discussion confuses the heck out of me. I am thinking some of you may be engineers and we all know about them. Smile. It has to be explained in terms that any audience can understand.


Meanwhile, only 2 or 3 location pictures have been sent in. Looks like this has died on the vine. I may start a new thread asking for pictures to be sent directly to me and ask Chris to lock the thread.

PS Charles, that the alternator sends volts to the batteries through the cables shown is good enough for me, even it is not shown in the diagram.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: The Secret 12V Manual Reset - 27' Rear Bath
Reply #49 –
Original exterior 2021 RB Lazydaze battery box minus the two Lifeline 6V batteries. The four breakers left to right are power to the Bigfoot leveling jacks pump; power to the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger; power to the Onan 4K watt gas generator; and the connector to the solenoid to the Ford engine battery & alternator.
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'