CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire September 05, 2020, 02:52:21 pm This subject is a bit off topic, however many members who travel with sleep apnea machines might find this interesting.Our son has obstructive sleep apnea and in 2 weeks will be having an Inspire device implanted which, if all works well, should eliminate the intrusive CPAP machine he now uses nightly. I will not attempt to describe it. You can read about it here: Inspire Sleep Apnea Innovation - Obstructive Sleep Apnea Treatment I realize sleep apnea is a YMMV topic as there are various flavors of this affliction. I am not promoting Inspire, only passing on information that you may not be aware of.Chris 2 Likes
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #1 – September 05, 2020, 02:54:36 pm Chris,All the best for your son.This is a new device I think out only couple of years ago. If possible please share your son's experience after he is able to use this device for few months.Regards,
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #2 – September 05, 2020, 02:56:25 pm Quote from: Muhammad - September 05, 2020, 02:54:36 pmChris,All the best for your son.This is a new device I think out only couple of years ago. If possible please share your son's experience after he is able to use this device for few months.Regards,Will do.
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #3 – September 08, 2020, 12:35:16 pm Chris - Knowing your sons AHI (and type of Apnea’s) before and after the inspire would be very useful. 80% improvement might not be enough for severe apnea and it might worn better for different causes of apnea gl(eg obstructive vs hypo vs CA).Thanks for the Info,Jane
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #4 – December 24, 2020, 06:28:09 pm I posted the message below about 4 months ago and promised I would report back in due time. "This subject is a bit off topic, however many members who travel with sleep apnea machines might find this interesting.Our son has obstructive sleep apnea and in 2 weeks will be having an Inspire device implanted which, if all works well, should eliminate the intrusive CPAP machine he now uses nightly. I will not attempt to describe it. You can read about it here: Inspire Sleep Apnea Innovation - Obstructive Sleep Apnea Treatment I realize sleep apnea is a YMMV topic as there are various flavors of this affliction. I am not promoting Inspire, only passing on information that you may not be aware of."Scott reports the following:The device implant surgery went well although it took a little longer to get back to normal than expected. It took a month or so to get the Inspire device fine-tuned to his physical needs.He is sleeping through the night which he was never able to do before.Not having to wear the CPAP device is a blessing.He didn't used to dream much and when he did, they were bad dreams. Now he dreams and they are more real world and pleasant.He feels better in general because he is getting "a good night's sleep".He doesn't know if he is having sleep apnea events because he has not had his follow up sleep study yet. However, if he is, he is not aware of them. He doesn't think he's having sleep apnea.in general Scott is very pleased with the improvement in sleeping since the Inspire surgery. The Inspire device is a great improvement (for him) over the CPAP machine.Chris 7 Likes
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #6 – December 25, 2020, 12:56:11 am Keep us notified of his progress, a lot of folks suffer from sleep apnea and use CPAP machines, requiring electrical upgrades to run them overnight. Larry
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #7 – December 29, 2020, 01:38:33 am Larry, Modern (e.g. last 5-19 years) Cpap machines use almost nothing - something like 10 amps a week.The only gotchas are if you run the humidifier or a heated tube as they use a lot more electricity - but there are alternatives for these features that don't use any electricity. We use a cpap with no electricity (only batteries) all the time - Cpaptalk.com has a lot of good discussions on this topic (camping without hookups with your cpap).Jane
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #8 – December 29, 2020, 01:45:31 am Chris, if your son has a cpap, he can use that and oscar software - free to find out how many (if any) and what kinds of apneas he is having. It is very common to have sleep apnea and not have symptoms/not know it, so having it measured is best.I will send you a PM with some details.IMO much better to use the software with a cpap machine because the sleep lab setup (all those wires, in a strange bed and room) do not always capture how people really sleep.Jane
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #9 – December 29, 2020, 03:50:39 am Quote from: Jane and Scott - December 29, 2020, 01:38:33 amModern (e.g. last 5-19 years) Cpap machines use almost nothing - something like 10 amps a week.10 amps of what?Most people I know with CPAP machines want to use their home machines in their LD. Their CPAPs, with heated moisture, consume 50+ watts, with peaks to 100-watts, adding up to 40-50+ amp/hours per night. That's not insignificant, especially in the winter when solar power is half or less than what is produced in the summer. Moving air takes power, as well as heating and moisturizing it, it can't be done using "almost nothing". It's that physics thing getting in the way.Every CPAP user's needs are different, some need higher pressure, heated and moisturized air, some need just a little pressure, the difference in power consumption can be huge.In the Caravan Club, we have had a couple, both with machines. One used a CPAP, with heated air with moisture, the other used a pressurized 100% oxygen concentrator at night. A roof-roof full of solar panels, a bigger converter and extra batteries still required daily generator runs, it didn't have enough roof to make winter boondocking possible without the generator.The ultimate in power saving CPAP devices has to be the Inspire, and it beats the heck out of being connected to a machine. We live in interesting times, the news is occasionally good.Larry 1 Likes
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #10 – December 29, 2020, 09:36:47 am Hi,I use BiPaP with humidifier and heated tube since for looooong. I do have pretty high pressure settings. Recently I got Tesla solar system along with two Powerwalls and I am watching their app to see power consumption at home. To my surprise I am not seeing night time high power consumption as much as I was expecting. I also have two sump pumps in basement and their stopping and starting along with BiPaP pressure variation does create lot of noise on the consumption graph/data but total usage during the day and night is not much different (there are only two of us at home and there is not much TV or unusual power consumption during the day).I looked at the surgery option and it is pretty invasive and is targeted for folks who simply cannot tolerate mask. Just for power saving I will not mind at all spending whatever it takes to get power system beefed up instead of getting under the knife. Even post surgery is not easy, these electrodes need to be adjusted number of time and success rate is not close to BiPaP usage. Just trying to give first hand experience, please don't take it personally. I am planning on adding two additional AGM batteries after I receive motorhome in Feb and if it does not work then I know $1000 battery bank will be good enough for 2-3 nights. There are ways to get away with heated tube and turning off humidifier or keep it at lower settings. I do remember this topic came up couple months ago as well ......Regards,Quote from: Larry W - December 29, 2020, 03:50:39 am10 amps of what?Most people I know with CPAP machines want to use their home machines in their LD. Their CPAPs, with heated moisture, consume 50+ watts, with peaks to 100-watts, adding up to 40-50+ amp/hours per night. That's not insignificant, especially in the winter when solar power is half or less than what is produced in the summer. Moving air takes power, as well as heating and moisturizing it, it can't be done using "almost nothing". It's that physics thing getting in the way.Every CPAP user's needs are different, some need higher pressure, heated and moisturized air, some need just a little pressure, the difference in power consumption can be huge.In the Caravan Club, we have had a couple, both with machines. One used a CPAP, with heated air with moisture, the other used a pressurized 100% oxygen concentrator at night. A roof-roof full of solar panels, a bigger converter and extra batteries still required daily generator runs, it didn't have enough roof to make winter boondocking possible without the generator.The ultimate in power saving CPAP devices has to be the Inspire, and it beats the heck out of being connected to a machine. We live in interesting times, the news is occasionally good.Larry
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #11 – December 29, 2020, 11:37:10 am [quote author=Muhammad date=1609252607 link=msg=225950Just trying to give first hand experience, please don't take it personally. I am planning on adding two additional AGM batteries after I receive motorhome in Feb and if it does not work then I know $1000 battery bank will be good enough for 2-3 nights. There are ways to get away with heated tube and turning off humidifier or keep it at lower settings. I do remember this topic came up couple months ago as well ......[/quote]Nothing to take personally, I was just pointing out that many LD's need electrical enhancements to run CPAPs, and other health maintenance machines at night.The addition of batteries and a few extra solar panels can take care of most needs year-round.Keep breathingLarry 1 Likes
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #12 – January 13, 2021, 04:35:23 am Quote from: Larry W - December 29, 2020, 03:50:39 am10 amps of what?Most people I know with CPAP machines want to use their home machines in their LD. Their CPAPs, with heated moisture, consume 50+ watts, with peaks to 100-watts, adding up to 40-50+ amp/hours per night. That's not insignificant, especially in the winter when solar power is half or less than what is produced in the summer. Moving air takes power, as well as heating and moisturizing it, it can't be done using "almost nothing". It's that physics thing getting in the way.Every CPAP user's needs are different, some need higher pressure, heated and moisturized air, some need just a little pressure, the difference in power consumption can be huge.In the Caravan Club, we have had a couple, both with machines. One used a CPAP, with heated air with moisture, the other used a pressurized 100% oxygen concentrator at night. A roof-roof full of solar panels, a bigger converter and extra batteries still required daily generator runs, it didn't have enough roof to make winter boondocking possible without the generator.The ultimate in power saving CPAP devices has to be the Inspire, and it beats the heck out of being connected to a machine. We live in interesting times, the news is occasionally good.LarryLarry, An oxygen concentrator is a huge, huge electricity hog, especially the ones that are required for cpaps (continuous not pulsing). And using the home model is even worse (including being really big so having a space to put them is also an issue - IMO). Home models don't have a DC12 adapter and that means using an inverter with even more electricity needed.I checked out using an Invacare solo "travel model" with an RV several years ago. The setting being used was 3 liters per minute (high setting uses a lot more electricity than the lower units). It is much smaller than the typical home models (which go up to 5 liters per minute) but not as small as the ones people walk around with (30 lbs, about 1.5'x2'.5 off the top of my head). It had a 12v power cord, so no inverter needed. However, testing showed problems at 3 liters per minute.I talked straight to the engineers at Invacare - they had tested it on batteries and had their results, but it was not a lot of testing. Bottom line... at 3 liters per minute, it put enough load on the batteries that it would lower the voltage to where the invacare turned itself off to "protect the battery" - even with brand new fully charged batteries. It was designed for car batteries to use when the car was running. So no way would it run thru a night (the problem was not the amps used but the voltage level when loaded down by the o2 concentrator). The solution was to use an inverter (used even more electricity). It is possible that running it at only 2 liters per minute might have worked ok, but I expect it would still have been a battery hog.The invocare solo is an older model but went up to 3 liters per minute continuous. If the person only needed 2 liters per minute there are much smaller units that use a lot less electricity and have dc12 adapters and one of those might work fine.I talked to Victron engineers about their lithium batteries and they confirmed no voltage drop (until the battery was pretty low). So an investment in lithium would work with the Invocare Solo - even at 3 liters continuous. I never figured out how much voltage it used because we decided at that time not to do lithium but even with this configuration (Invacare Solo going straight to DC12), I expect you would need more than a 200 ah battery and minimum solar.Cpaps - we use our home units (and all the people I have read about use theirs).The cpap itself (includes apaps and bi-levels) use about 10 amp of 12v in a week of sleeping (9 hrs a night +1 an hour). The discussions I have seen are all around the DreamStation or AirCurve, so models older than that use more but those two have been around a while.We use cpaps regularly (current models) and yup, it barely kicks up the amps being used (shown on victron monitor) and our pressures are around 8-13 steady thru the night with occasional higher levels, depending (on both machines) which is in the middle (not low at all, but not at the top levels).There are travel models now that have their own batteries included, but features are limited and battery life is limited (I think 2 nights at most).We tent camped for years and dragged a small 25 amp deep cycle battery with us - Scott had an older model at the time so it used more electricity, but testing at home showed 2 nights were fine before it needed charging. None of these cpap numbers above are using the humidifier or a heated tube - they use a lot more electricity and most people don't use them when camping (tent camping at least). I will check mine and see what it uses with each of these and report back.Many people use a snuggle hose cover to keep the tubing warm or don't use anything at all.Many people put water in the humidifier tank, so it picks up some humidity going by but don't run the heater to evaporate the water or don't use the humidifier tank at all.Using the humidifier or heated tube is a personal choice but often they are prescribed up front and people just use them without figuring out if they want/need them (since the entire cpap experience takes some adjusting).Scott used to use his humidifier and decided after a couple years it was not good for him (messed up his sinuses). He has never used a heated tube. He uses only a nose mask and typically people using that don't use a humidifier. So he uses barely any electricity at all. He runs medium pressures, typically between 8-12 each night.I use a full face mask so I do better with some humidity but when we boondock I just put some water in the humidifier tank and don't run the humidifier and that works well for me (at least for our recent trips). I am newer to all this, so this winter when it dropped to 45 or lower in AZ, with my machine sitting on a ledge right at the window, the air in the tube was quite cold. I don't like that. Scott doesn't feel that but his is not right at the window. If I moved it, I likely I would not have that issue. But with where it is now, a snuggle doesn't offset that cold blast of air - I have used my heated tubing but if I were boondocking, I would just move where I put it or put up some thick reflectix or something to block the cold window temps.I did run into an issue where the humidifier set high (highest level) on a dc12 power cord would not work - I have a machine that runs 24v, so the adapter converts from 12v to 24v, and that was causing problems. Scott has a straight 12v adapter. But I really don't need the humidifier up that high no matter what is going on (that was in early days when I was playing with settings).I agree that different people need different features of their cpap. But I expect it was the O2 concentrator that killed things for the couple you met, especially with a home O2 concentrator unit. I will run some numbers (for the night) with the heated tubing & humidifier and report back numbers.Jane 2 Likes
Re: CPAP, BiPAP, Inspire Reply #13 – September 14, 2021, 08:21:33 pm ChrisIt's been about a year since your son had an Inpire device implated. How is long-term experience with it? Any issues?Eliminating the machine, hose, and mask could be an upgrade in sleep comfort for users of CPAP machines.Larry
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