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Topic: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath (Read 685 times) previous topic - next topic
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Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
I am looking for the propane sensor wire routing so I can connect it to my See Level monitor panel. It arrives at the stock LD panel on a purple wire. I don’t see it, looking under the kitchen cabinet. Can anyone share some knowledge of the wire routing?
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #1 –
Keith-

I can't help with the wire routing. But, I did replace the LD panel with the SeeLevel panel, in the same location, using the factory connector. If you're interested in details, let me know.

Mark H.
Former owner, 31-foot gas Class A
Former owner, 1997-8 mid-bath
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #2 –
Keith:  I installed the SeeLevel Gauges on my 2015 MB.  I tapped into the existing propane sensor wire at the LD monitor panel.  It was white with a green stripe (the one in the middle).  I was able to visually trace the connection on the circuit board to the propane light on the LD panel.

Geoff
2015 MB
2021 Ford Escape Hybrid
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #3 –
In our 2004 front lounge, the propane sensor wire was accessible behind the microwave. In our case, a green wire in a bundle of others, and how I determined that was the correct wire I no longer remember.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #4 –
My SeeLevel panel is down near the utility space where the water pump lives. I’m thinking I can tap the propane sender signal wire at three places: coming from the tank, passing through the under-cabinet utility space, or arriving at the stock factory-installed indicator panel.

An option is to tap the wire up at the stock indicator panel. I see a purple wire coming from the propane indicator,  like Geoff mentioned, but I don’t see a good route down to the utility space.

My preferred choice would be to tap the wire coming up from the propane tank as it runs through that utility space on its way up to the stock monitor panel. I don’t see the purple wire among the many bundles of dozens of wires in the utility space. I’m hoping that someone has identified it.

Another option is to tap the wire coming off of the tank sensor, underneath the chassis, and pierce the floor to bring it into the utility space.
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #5 –
I offer this update on my adventure. Tracing the wire from the propane tank sensor, I find a green wire which goes up through the floor behind the rear wheels. There is one green wire which enters the utility space all the way over against the inside of the coach exterior wall, crosses behind the black tank vent pipe, and then heads up that wall. I can get my iPhone in far enough to see this, but no way could I reach in far enough to splice into it. It makes sense that it is routed this way, on its way to the standard LD monitor panel - there is no reason for it to be routed over to where I can reach. Too bad.

I decide to pick up the propane sensor wire underneath, and run a wire underneath.

I splice into the wire near the tank, and run a wire (the propane tank sensor uses chassis ground for the return, so there is only one wire for the propane tank sensor) along with the two SeeLevel wires for the gray tank sensor. These three wires are enclosed in a black plastic sleeve, make a ten-foot run under the coach, meet with the black tank sensor wires, and ascend through the floor into the utility space, emerging from the floor between the water pump and the utility space access hatch.

I spent a while planning where to drill the hole through the floor. I drilled a 1/4” hole up through the metal bottom and looked for where it emerged into the utility space. Oh, no! No hole was present in the expected location. So, where is the hole? I couldn’t find it. Not good. Eventually I figured out that the floor was thicker than I thought. I drilled farther, and the hole came through right where I expected. Major relief ensued.

Working underneath is awkward, dirty, and filled with many things that are harder than my head and knuckles. This makes for slow progress. At last, I now have all the wires run. The next step is in the utility space, to connect the new tank sensor wires in parallel with the previously installed fresh water tank sensor wires and the SeeLevel II display panel.

2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #6 –
I want to share that this weekend we learned that the LPG level reported by the SeeLevel is affected by the active electrical load on the house batteries, as well as ambient temperature at the tank.

Background: We installed a SeeLevel monitor system in our 2011 MB two and a half years ago.  We tied into the existing LPG sender wire at the back of the LD System Monitor panel.  (This was easy because our SeeLevel display is adjacent to it.)  Over the years we've noticed that the propane level reported by the SeeLevel often changes during the day even when no propane has been used.  This, we believed, was primarily due to changes in ambient temperature at the tank. 

This past weekend while "training" our new Balmar SG200 battery monitor, I discovered that the LPG level reported by the SeeLevel is affected by the active electrical load.  For example, this morning the house batteries are fully charged and the coach is plugged into shore power.  The SeeLevel reports that the tank is 44 percent full.  After I turn on both Fan-tastic fans (6 amps total), the reported LPG level drops to 41.  Turning the fans off returns the level to 44.  This explains some of the reported level changes we've been seeing that we couldn't plausibly attribute to changes in temperature.

Jim

Jim & Sue
Formerly owned: 2011 27' MB, Sidra
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #7 –
That is good to know! Since the SeeLevel knows battery voltage, it could compensate for this. I wonder if they take suggestions?
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Keith Sweitzer  - 
That is good to know! Since the SeeLevel knows battery voltage, it could compensate for this. I wonder if they take suggestions?

Bear in mind that unless you disconnect the propane line from the stove vent panel display, it may introduce a variable into the system. I tried it both ways, and found no difference in the Seelevel reading, but I did not vary the load or try at different times of day, so my testing was inconclusive on this count.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #9 –
Below shows the wire used in our 2003 LD for the SeeLevel propane connection. The center white wire with the green stripe connects to the propane tank level sensor.


Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
 
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #10 –
Is the picture at the hood monitor panel?
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #12 –
My 2013 has the monitor panel facing the entry door in the side of the upper cabinet. The panel is almost square, and the wires look different.
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #13 –
Hi Keith,  The SeeLevel is after market and can be installed wherever the previous owner wanted to put it.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #14 –
The propane gauge level is just a variable resistor to ground.  At ground the resistance is (close) to zero. A full tank translates to (if I remember correctly) 50 ohms, which will give a high impedance meter a reading of your battery voltage.  The SeeLevel should have a regulated supply, usually 10.0 dc volts. conveniently each volt represents 10%. I don't own one of these, and so I'm just guessing here. The Lazy Daze provided meter may measure using an unregulated 'whatever the battery voltage is' and may slightly vary the reading the SeeLevel sees as a signal from the sending unit.  Disconnecting the OEM meter lead would probably ensure a more stable reading.
       I'm not sure there is much to gain here. For one thing the tank is round, so a different level response from the sender, depending on where in the tank it is.  Maybe the sender is non linear to compensate for being in a cylindrical tank.  My experience is that the sender isn't very accurate or repeatable, so good engineering can help, but 'GIGO' still applies.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #15 –
Isn’t the gauge on the actual tank fairly accurate and wouldn’t it be easier to just go out a take a look at it?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #16 –
Hi Greg. I have had a history of bad readings from my tank gauge. Variable to +- 1/4 tank. Good as a general indicator, but topping it off at a propane filler reveals how many gallons were really in the tank, as opposed to what the tank gauge indicates.  The indoor gauge just reads what the mechanical float thinks is there. Beats going outside.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #17 –
I don’t know about the sensor absolute accuracy, I’m hoping for delta accuracy. The larger benefit of the SeeLevel numeric display is to observe smaller changes in tank level to assess the consumption rate. The gauge on the tank is an  analog dial, with scale very compressed above 3/4ths. The SeeLevel has the capability to display propane level, so I’m enabling that feature.

You point out that opening the propane hatch and reading the dial is an adequate workarounds for observing the level. True, but I have found that the easier something is to do, the more often it will get done. There may another factor which I admit: I am an engineer, and I am interested in the details of how, and how well, the systems work.🤓
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #18 –
Hi Keith, as an engineer you'll recognize GIGO. Thats garbage in, garbage out. No matter what improvements you make at the wire end, the inaccuracy and really poor repeatability of the sender, based on the float position, will always limit your readings.
Many people and companies have tried to improve readings. SeeLevel did a good enough job with plastic holding tanks, to put a capacitive sender outside the tank. The steel tank of propane thwarts most attempts at more precision.
   This thread is recent enough to be a good read.  Propane Tank Gauge/Sensor & Propane Tank Spacer/Stabilizer/Leveler
RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #19 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
...
   This thread is recent enough to be a good read.  Propane Tank Gauge/Sensor & Propane Tank Spacer/Stabilizer/Leveler
Keith, I just updated the post Ron mentioned. 
Overall, we have been happy with the Mopeka and feel the readings are good (no, I don't have anything else to compare it to, but it seems to match how much can be put in it at fill time, only one reading was off in 1.5 years or so of usage).  Since it reports in % (0-100), we can tell the impact if a day or cooking, or water heater usage, or the difference when our fridge is on propane vs shore power. 
Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #20 –
I completed connecting the gray, black, and propane sensors, and everything seems to be working (I had connected the fresh water sensor to the SeeLevel monitor a couple of years ago.) I ran wires from the gray tank over to underneath the utility space, then up through the floor. I ran an additional wire along with the two used by the SeeLevel system, and spliced it into the factory propane tank sensor wire near the tank itself, before it goes up through the floor behind the tires.

I calibrated the propane tank level indication (which sets the signal level corresponding to 100%). Conveniently, I have not consumed any propane since I filled the tank. Each time I press the LPG button on the SeeLevel monitor display, the level is recalculated. The values I see range from 93% up to 101%, which is about a 10% variability. Since I was pressing the button every couple of seconds, the only thing I can imagine changing that fast might be the actual propane level sloshing around, as a result of entering the vehicle to check the SeeLevel display. The battery voltage was constant at 13.9 V with the solar panels producing some power in late afternoon.

I am going to run this way for a while, and get a feel for how much the propane level indication varies due to the various factors other posters have identified. My dry-camping endurance has always been limited by fresh water, so having the propane tank level displayed on the SeeLevel is a nice-to-have convenience. If I did a lot of winter camping in a cold climate I might find propane to be a limiting factor, but I live in Southern California.

One note for future SeeLevel installers: I used Rustoleum Undercoat Spray on the sensors, and I had trouble with the spray nozzle clogging, even on the brand new can. You might have an easier time getting uniform coverage with another brand.
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Propane sensor wire in Mid-Bath
Reply #21 –
For what it's worth, 3M 08881 Undercoating spray worked flawlessly on our install.

Jim
Jim & Sue
Formerly owned: 2011 27' MB, Sidra