V10 Engine Noise December 10, 2020, 12:41:24 pm I am a newbie to the V10 engine and had a question for this experienced group before I contact a Ford dealer. On the trip back to California from Florida, I noticed a noise from the engine area. Hard to describe since my hearing is not the best but it was a type of rattling noise. It happened frequently when accelerating or going up a grade. Sometimes I would just be going along in cruise control and it would make the noise for a little while, then just stop on it's own. Any ideas what might be the cause?
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #1 – December 10, 2020, 12:48:49 pm The engine gurus will likely offer opinions, but my first suggestion would be to check for a loose/worn serpentine belt (and/or timing belt). The belt itself may be glazed, loose, torn, other, and/or the tensioner might need adjustment. Please post when the problem is accurately diagnosed; thanks. 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #2 – December 10, 2020, 01:40:42 pm Hi Greg. I'm sure you checked the oil level, and for anything obviously loose or something banging around, hitting something else. It wouldn't be an exhaust leak or knocking from bad gas? Going uphill would put the engine under more stress, change the driveline angle, and disrupt objects in outside storage compartments. A look at the engine from underneath might cast more light on this noise. There are some heat shields and plastic covers for steering components that can come loose. Get someone with 'younger ears' to ride with you and see if you can reproduce the symptoms. I remember there being driveshaft issues earlier on. I have a place where I can drive slowly, next to a block wall to reflect sounds, with the window down. This has worked before with wheel cover issues. Do you have after market add-ons like Banks cat back or similar? How many miles are there on your 'new to you' rig? RonB
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #3 – December 10, 2020, 01:51:29 pm A what RPM range do you hear the noise?Under hard climbs at or near 4000-RPM, our two V10s haved sounded like a rattleing can of marbles. The noise does change pitch after a short time. It is a sound I have never heard in any other engine.4000-RPM is the range where the engine climbs best, the engine is designed to run safely at high RPMs, one advantage of the overhead cams.Larry 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #4 – December 10, 2020, 02:00:21 pm Ron, no add-ons that I know of. I did do an underneath inspection when I was checking out the rig for purchase but will get under the hood and underneath the rig for a closer inspection now that I'm home. Don't think it was bad gas as it occured throughout my travels. Going to head down to town on Monday to get it smogged and change the oil so will have my better half ride along and listen, and perhaps record the noise with her phone. I will also mention it to the local mechanics. About 35K miles on Bossa Nova.Larry, I was running in the 2000-2500 RPM range when the noise was occurring. Your can of marbles reference hits the nail on the head. 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #5 – December 10, 2020, 02:05:46 pm I don't recall hearing any rattling, pinging, knocking, or other noises that I would classify as "not right" when climbing steep grades or accelerating; granted, my hearing is less acute (for voices) than it was, but I am still tuned into the 17-year-old engine. I don't think I've missed any odd motor sounds, but I will sure listen carefully the next time I haul up a steep grade! On edit: Definitely have not heard a "can of marbles".
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #6 – December 10, 2020, 02:48:23 pm Without hearing what you refer to it's very hard to diagnose. It could be a low octane "ping". You must use at least 87 Octane gasoline. Some places have 85 Octane. Do not ever use it!! If you can't get 87 go to a higher 91.May not be your problem, but a suggestion. How many miles since your last tune up?
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #7 – December 10, 2020, 02:57:08 pm Quote from: H. T. P. - December 10, 2020, 02:48:23 pmWithout hearing what you refer to it's very hard to diagnose. It could be a low octane "ping". You must use at least 87 Octane gasoline. Some places have 85 Octane. Do not ever use it!! If you can't get 87 go to a higher 91.May not be your problem, but a suggestion. How many miles since your last tune up?Yes, I always used 87 octane. I have the maintenance records from the previous owner so will check them to see if a tuneup was performed. Thanks!
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #8 – December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 pm Just a suggestion, but when you have the oil and filter changed, you might also want to change the fuel filter (and the air filter). 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #9 – December 10, 2020, 06:28:41 pm I will spare you the long story of how I resolved a similar noise problem. It sounds like it may be the same problem that I had. When the engine gets hot under load or even stopping to get gas etc. and then the heat buildup in the engine compartment there’s a fan that engages. I ended up replacing both the belt and the fan clutch and that resolved the problem. if you want more detail regarding this let me know. 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #10 – December 10, 2020, 07:30:13 pm Quote from: Joan - December 10, 2020, 04:23:32 pmJust a suggestion, but when you have the oil and filter changed, you might also want to change the fuel filter (and the air filter). Joan, looks like the air filter has been replaced a couple of times, last done about 5,000 miles ago. I don’t see in the Ford manual where it calls for the fuel filter to be replaced as scheduled maintenance. Looks like I may be a bit behind on the 30k mile service, though. Currently just over 35k miles.
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #11 – December 10, 2020, 09:01:15 pm There are quite a few maintenance services that should be done in addition to those on the basic Ford maintenance schedule, e.g, changing the fuel filter every 15,000 miles. The fuel filter on the new-to-you 2017 may be the original; I’d replace it. YMMV, as always.
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #12 – December 11, 2020, 09:30:39 am JoanDo you recall the approximate cost to replace the Fuel Filter on the V10?Thanks,Tony R (aka codefour)
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #13 – December 11, 2020, 10:06:36 am The fuel filter itself is a $10-15 item from an auto supply source, but the shop mark-up on the part and the labor charge to install it may vary widely. For example, the local-to-me Ford truck center (and many other service shops in this area) charges over $200 per hour. Obviously, those prices will not be the everyone's experience.You might want to call your shop and ask them what the part price is and get an estimate of the labor charge to install the filter. You might want to look on Rock Auto (one of many sources) to see what the filter "can" looks like. I watched the process once; a special "hook" tool to release the filter, a bit of gas dripping down the sleeve of the mechanic, and fitting the new filter into the fuel line. I didn't time the process, but it was a pretty quick job.When my rig has gone to the truck center, replacement of the fuel filter has been a pretty small line item on the total bill.
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #14 – December 11, 2020, 10:14:56 am Is the filter located inside the gas tank?
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #15 – December 11, 2020, 10:33:10 am Quote from: HiLola - December 11, 2020, 10:14:56 amIs the filter located inside the gas tank?I believe it is, in searching I can't find one for the 2017 E450.Charles
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #16 – December 11, 2020, 10:33:38 am The fuel filter is located on the chassis frame rail on the driver's side, under the door/seat area, at least in my 2003.
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #17 – December 11, 2020, 10:44:15 am It appears that later Ford E450s have a "non-serviceable" fuel filter. See the notation on this page:https://owner.ford.com/support/how-tos/vehicle-care/fuel-filter-maintenance.htmlCheck your Ford manual; if it doesn't indicate a fuel filter part number or interval change, the fuel filter is not serviceable and in a location that is a mystery to me. On edit: Rock Auto does not list a fuel filter "can" after 2016 Ford E-450 models, so 2017 models appear to have the "non-serviceable" fuel filter. 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #18 – December 11, 2020, 10:45:25 am Thanks JoanThe fuel "PUMP" is located inside the fuel tank. I learned the hard way.We had one fail on a previous RV (not LD), and the cost to drain, remove, and reinstall a new pump was well over the $400.00 mark. Not to mention the tow, and overnight stay in the RV Repair yard.Failure of the pump in the mountains, coming down a 6% grade was not a convenient time for this failure. Engine stops, surges, etc., and all of the POWER things you really enjoy (need) are gone. It did give us some warning a few minutes before as it started losing power, but I didn't recognize the symptoms. I didn't think about the fuel filter until Joan mentioned it earlier. Wonderful suggestion for the maintenance list.It's these little gems that make the Forum special.Tony R. (aka codefour) 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #19 – December 11, 2020, 01:32:46 pm Quote from: Joan - December 11, 2020, 10:44:15 amOn edit: Rock Auto does not list a fuel filter "can" after 2016 Ford E-450 models, so 2017 models appear to have the "non-serviceable" fuel filter.Many vehicle's only fuel filter is located on the fuel pump assembly, located inside the fuel tank. The filter is normally good for the life of the fuel pump.It appears that 2016+ LDs use this type of fuel filter.Larry 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #21 – December 11, 2020, 04:32:30 pm I did a bit of research to learn about the basics of "fuel filters" in newer vehicles; according to what I read, the in-tank fuel filter is located on the fuel pump intake. To replace the in-tank filter (for whatever reason, e.g., fuel contamination, lack of fuel pressure) and/or the fuel pump, the fuel tank has to be dropped.. ( I can't think that this job could be done without draining the tank, but the motorheads on this forum can confirm this or not.) Additionally, if the mechanic isn't sure which component, the fuel filter or the fuel pump, is causing the problem, both are usually replaced when the tank is dropped. Whenever any component has to be "dropped" to repair or replace something, the job can't help but be pricey, and replacing an in-tank fuel filter (and/or fuel pump) doesn't seem like it's an exception! I'm glad that my old rig has a pretty simple in-line "can" filter!
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #22 – December 11, 2020, 04:55:52 pm "Whenever any component has to be "dropped" to repair or replace something, the job can't help but be pricey, and replacing an in-tank fuel filter (and/or fuel pump) doesn't seem like it's an exception! I'm glad that my old rig has a pretty simple in-line "can" filter!"I agree totally, Joan, a clogged fuel filter is no fun to deal with. We had one finally go on our 2000MB near some small town in AZ many years ago. Luckily, I was able to limp in to a Truck Repair place in a town that had a NAPA store. To make a long story short, the truck repair place was willing to do the replacement if I could come up with the filter. NAPA had it, but when we went to install it, we discovered we needed a special tool to remove the old one. NAPA had it too, so an hour later, out $50, I was on my way. Talk about luck. Needless to say, I carried a spare filter and the tool forever more. For a rig that is on the road, filling up at unknown stations, especially when we use the back roads, I can't imagine why a fuel filter should ever be located inside the tank. Rich 1 Likes
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #23 – December 11, 2020, 05:44:54 pm Quote from: Joan - December 11, 2020, 04:32:30 pm Additionally, if the mechanic isn't sure which component, the fuel filter or the fuel pump, is causing the problem, both are usually replaced when the tank is dropped. Whenever any component has to be "dropped" to repair or replace something, the job can't help but be pricey, and replacing an in-tank fuel filter (and/or fuel pump) doesn't seem like it's an exception! I'm glad that my old rig has a pretty simple in-line "can" filter!While the fuel pump's filter almost never plugs up, if it or the fuel pump goes bad, the tank needs to be dropped, an expensive and complicated task. Changing our 2003"s fuel pump was an all-day affair. It is best done with an empty tank, to reduce the tank's weight and to reduce the sloshing of fuel. The tank is made of steel and is very heavy.Fuel pump replacement | Flickr fuel..Larry
Re: V10 Engine Noise Reply #24 – December 11, 2020, 06:16:44 pm Quote from: Larry W - December 11, 2020, 05:44:54 pmWhile the fuel pump's filter almost never plugs up, if it or the fuel pump goes bad, the tank needs to be dropped, an expensive and complicated task. Changing our 2003"s fuel pump was an all-day affair. It is best done with an empty tank, to reduce the tank's weight and to reduce the sloshing of fuel. The tank is made of steel and is very heavy.Fuel pump replacement | Flickr fuel..Yeah, I’m not doing that! 😳
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