Travel with 10 year old October 04, 2020, 04:28:58 pm Hi there, we would like to travel with 3 people. My husband and I and our 10 year old. We are looking for a 26.5 mid bath. I might have the 10 year old ride in the front passenger seat to be safe. But, can someone talk to me about how to do our best making the forward facing dinette seat as safe as possible. Is that seat bolted down? Has anyone taken that out and had someone install a different captains chair type seat? Thanks in advance for any tips/advice.
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #1 – October 05, 2020, 08:21:20 am No way to safely ride in the back of a motor home without major modification. 2 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #2 – October 05, 2020, 08:45:28 am We have our kids ride in the dinette using the factory installed seatbelts. I guess the front facing seat is probably safer than the backwards facing seat, but we never worried much about it. It's common to have both dinette seats occupied and a game or something on the table as we roll down the road.Carseats are a real conundrum with non-standard belts, but that's not an issue for a 10 year old. For some reason, this topic always gets lots of people without kids telling parents how unsafe their RV is for children. While it's factually true that a dinette seat isn't as safe as front captains chair with airbag, it's also factually true that it's safer to drive 45mph than 70mph. We all pick the risk/reward profile that we're comfortable with.I observe many families in campgrounds with Class C's. I can only assume that there are lots of kids riding around in RVs. The dinette seatbelts in our 2003 MB are bolted to the floor.Rich 4 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #3 – October 05, 2020, 09:15:30 am Without question, there are many families traveling with kids in RV's.Without question, the dinette seats in our RV's have seat belts. That does not make them safe.In the cab, the seats have lap and shoulder belts and air bags. In an accident, a person is prevented from being a projectile, and is protected from impact with hard surfaces that might cause injury.In the rear dinette seats, the lap belts would probably prevent an occupant from becoming a projectile, as long as that flimsy plywood seat does not collapse. The seat belts are bolted to the floor. The seat belts, however, are lap belts only. The upper body is free to move. There is no upper back or neck support to prevent whiplash from a rear impact. In the case of a front impact, the face and chest can impact the table. If one's throat hits the edge of the table, the larynx will be crushed, and the occupant will suffocate. Those seats are safer than being unbelted, but cannot be called safe.Traveling 45 on an interstate is begging for a rear end impact. It is NOT necessarily safer than driving at the speed limit.Many years ago, kids were allowed to stand in the center area of the front bench seat. Nobody had seat belts. We survived, but... not everybody did. The many fatalities that occurred spurred a movement to make the car interior as safe as possible. That led to the requirement for seat and shoulder belts and air bags, for energy absorbing vehicle design, and for design of more forgiving interior surfaces (remember those sheet metal dashboards?).I am not telling people to not ride in the back. I am saying that the seats in the back of out RV's are not safe seats. Make your own decisions based on an understanding of the dangers, not because you see others putting kids in the back.Ken F in NM 5 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #4 – October 05, 2020, 09:20:08 am Quote from: Kenneth Fears - October 05, 2020, 09:15:30 amTraveling 45 on an interstate is begging for a rear end impact. It is NOT necessarily safer than driving at the speed limit.This purposefully misses the point. It's safer to drive 45mph than 70mph, and safer to drive 15mph than 45mph. No one has to travel on the interstate.It's safer to drive in a SUV than a car, and it's safer to drive in an Abrams tank than a SUV.It's safer to stay home than to drive, which is why we're all getting car insurance rebate checks right now.The point is that no one picks the 'safest' of all possible options. We all take some risks. Most of them are small. Rich 2 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #5 – October 05, 2020, 10:29:32 am Quote from: rich - October 05, 2020, 09:20:08 amIt's safer to drive 45mph than 70mph, and safer to drive 15mph than 45mph. No one has to travel on the interstate.This is literally untrue. The statement that a collision occurring with a 45 mph relative speed difference is 'safer' than one with a 70 mph speed difference has truth, and applies more to accident damage and injury than any absolute traveling speed. However, statistics would point to the likelihood that traveling WITH the flow of traffic is the safest way to avoid an accident. Now, we drive our rig typically 55 - 60 mph on multi-lane roads, which is definitely slower than the flow in most cases, but not so much as to cause an accident. If the road has only a single lane in our direction, I will adjust the speed to minimize my interference with traffic, even if that means speeding up - because that is the safer way to avoid an accident.Steve 3 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #6 – October 05, 2020, 10:47:26 am Sorry, Rich, but that is wrong. It is not necessarily safer at 45 than at 70. The safest speed is one that is within 5 to 10 mph of the mainstream pace. When you travel significantly slower than prevailing traffic, you increase your risk of a rear impact. As to roadway safety, the interstate highways are far safer than 2 lane back roads. SUV's have a higher risk of rollover than a typical passenger car. SUV's are not inherently safer.Now, let's put some foundation out there. For 40 years, I was a licensed professional engineer, specializing in traffic engineering. I was a Fellow in the Institute of Transportation Engineers, an international organization. I was an internationally certified Professional Traffic Operations Engineer, with my certification number being 00005. I have done hundreds of accident reconstructions, thousands of accident investigations, and have been accepted as an Expert, providing expert court testimony on nearly a hundred cases.It is a common, but false, belief that you are inherently safer in a heavier vehicle than a light one. The key issue is change of energy. In a head-on collision, with both vehicles at the same speed, the lighter vehicle will experience a greater energy change, thus will experience a more serious result. But, a modern 3000 lb vehicle is safer than a 1970 6000 lb vehicle. The difference in safety is due to better energy absorption in the newer car and better occupant safety design, e.g., active and passive restraints. In a fixed object impact, vehicle weight plays no role. The sole issues relate to the ability of the vehicle to absorb energy and to the quality of occupant protection. In a side impact wherein you are T-boned by, let's say, a large truck, you would be safer in a much lighter modern car than you would be in the back of one of our heavier RV's.I agree that we choose the amount of risk that is acceptable to ourselves. Saying that most of the risks are small, without understanding the nature of the risk or the degree of risk, is not realistic.Ken F in NM 5 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #7 – October 05, 2020, 10:48:55 am Steve put up his post while I was typing. He is dead on with his comments.Ken F in NM
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #8 – October 05, 2020, 11:02:19 am Some of us, particularly women of a certain age who spent their childhoods riding in the front seat (often standing up, as Ken mentioned) and, later, schlepping kids around before seatbelts, may still instinctively fling an arm across the passenger when making a sudden stop to prevent them from pitching into the dashboard; a friend calls this the "Mom Arm".Granted, it can be a bit disconcerting to the passenger to be whacked across the chest at the same time that the seatbelt locks up to accomplish the same thing, but old habits die hard. (Also, Ken's and Steve's information on risk assessment, "safer" speeds, and differences in road driving MOs is definitely accurate in my experience.) 3 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #9 – October 05, 2020, 11:17:30 am Interesting conversation. It's always good to hear from folks with a different perspective. A few observations:(1) School busses regularly travel on interstates, well below the posted speed limit. Kids sit on plain old bench seats without seatbelts for any of the children. As a society, we've decided that this is an acceptable risk.(2) It's hard to argue that kids won't get off of their video games and do something outdoors when we've decided that driving to the campground is just not safe enough without the right kind of seat. I'd argue the opposite. Take the kid camping. Take him or her on hikes where there are warning signs about grizzly bears, and rattlesnakes, and mountain lions, and lyme disease. Encourage them to ride their bike around the campground, respectfully, but well out of sight of their parents. Bonus points for sending them down a mountain bike trail that gets their heart rate up because it's a little scary. Seek out the iconic hikes in our national parks where you can easily fall to your death, but will be rewarded with a sense of accomplishment and a fantastic view. Send them down to the creek by themselves to fish and don't panic when they're not back until after dark. Let them ride in the RV, and get up to use the restroom, and even sleep in the back as you travel.In a few short years that 10 year old will be old enough to drive their own car down the interstate, which is measurably more dangerous than any of the things I've suggested. Having learned a bit about risk-reward, having scared themselves a few times, will make them better at managing their new found freedom.Rich 4 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #10 – October 05, 2020, 11:58:49 am Hi Nsangster; back to the real question, The forward facing seat in a MB is the pull out, and is the preferred third seat. Well built, but pretty light weight. I bought a used 2001 for a friend in 2017, and at 56k miles had some use!! A few things were wrong with that seat, and the previous owner had 3 teenagers (off to college, hence the sale). I'm sure that seat had usage during travel. I reglued some of the joints, and put metal corner braces in quite a few places underneath inside the seat.(sorry no pictures). The seat belts were there and in good shape. (I hope they were used). I replaced the one latch into the floor with a new one. The seat betls would restrain a 10 year old or small adult, the stress is on the belts. The table presents more of a problem. Padding on the edge, or a pillow. Maybe some sort of 'L' shaped bolster in front of the strapped in person. To cover the edge and surface in a small area. Safety is relative, and I'd bet LD has better surrounding framework and belts than most other class 'C's. Children ride in those other class 'C's also. Riding backward might be a better option in the backward facing seat. It is sturdier and not meant to move. (above the batteries) A shoulder belt could be attached to the forward wall. An upholstered pad (similar to other ones on the walls) could be placed there, even a few inches thick, because of the spacing, could work. Being close to the front seat and parents is a plus, but riding in the rear lounge might be safer. Although sideways, up against the forward bulkheads gives more protection. Again, I'd add some padding against the side of the shower wall. I seem to remember seatbelts there also. Your ten year old might have friends his age riding with you, so multiple seating locations might be used. Your child might want to sit in different seats depending on the travel. If he is small and travels in the front seat you would want to turn off the airbag. There may not be switches in some years. I think there isn't much to be gained by replacing seats, and you might just be adding different risks. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #11 – October 05, 2020, 12:17:08 pm How to secure kids (and pets) for safe travel in a class C can be a challenge; information at this link may offer some guidelines.Traveling With Children in RVs - Safe Ride 4 KidsYMMV. 2 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #12 – October 05, 2020, 12:17:37 pm To reminisce with Joan, I was once riding in the back seat standing while my mother drove, in a 1952 Ford. Back in those days the seats had no fold forward prevention (or seat belts) and a sudden stop propelled my head into the solid metal dash. Left a dent (in the dash). When I tell my friends about that, too many say " well that explains that!" I haven't figured out the comment yet. (go ahead, think to yourself 'that explains that'. ) RonB 2 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #13 – October 05, 2020, 02:06:20 pm I agree with those who say they assess the risk and feel taking kids along riding in the back is worth it so they can all go in the motor home together but it can't be argued that is a risk and there's no safe way to do so.JMO but a family should be pulling a trailer with everybody in the vehicle. Motor homes should be for young single couples or old people with the kids gone.
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #14 – October 05, 2020, 02:32:27 pm Quote from: Sawyer - October 05, 2020, 02:06:20 pmJMO but a family should be pulling a trailer with everybody in the vehicle. Motor homes should be for young single couples or old people with the kids gone. Yeah but . . . What about us old folks that want to take the grandkids camping? 🤔 4 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #15 – October 05, 2020, 04:08:24 pm Quote from: HiLola - October 05, 2020, 02:32:27 pmYeah but . . . What about us old folks that want to take the grandkids camping? 🤔It’s about assessing the risk reward ratio, making a decision and living with the consequences of that decision. Most likely everyone and everything will be fine.My opinion is based on an experience from ten years ago or so. Land we bought had an old travel trailer and assorted junk on it I wanted gone. I decided to push it all over a small hill where I was going to use fill to create a building spot for my sawmill. In retrospect I should have kept the trailer and fixed it up to sell but that’s another story.I pulled the trailer close to the embankment and pushed it over with my tractor thinking I’d have quite a time smashing it down with the bucket before pushing it into landfill position. I was shocked at how when I pushed it onto its side it basically collapsed of its own weight. The frame was now exposed so I rolled it on over and it completely disintegrated into a bunch of sticks and tin . I thought wow, no wonder it’s illegal to ride in trailers which essentially you are doing riding in the coach of a motor home.If I was bound and determined to have passengers in a MH on a regular basis I’d consider a Born Free. They have three roll bars integrated into the structure and are made to withstand a roll event.The Born Free Difference – Starting with Safety – Born Free RV
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #16 – October 05, 2020, 05:28:25 pm Oh oh Sawyer!Guess you've never seen the results of a Lazy Daze rollover... I cannot bring up the source just now but I'd bet that Larry Wade or someone else will post it before long! 1 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #17 – October 05, 2020, 07:20:41 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - October 05, 2020, 05:28:25 pmOh oh Sawyer!Guess you've never seen the results of a Lazy Daze rollover... I cannot bring up the source just now but I'd bet that Larry Wade or someone else will post it before long! Gus Weber (RIP) from Cedaredge, CO I believe. Hit black ice. He bought a new one after the accident.Chris 2 Likes
Re: Travel with 10 year old Reply #18 – October 06, 2020, 12:54:12 am I agree those pics looked good but I was thinking, just the other day...like a climbing rope where you retire it after someone slipped and it held their weight as they started falling down the cliff, I would not count on the LD being as strong after the first rollover (eg not count on it surviving a second one).Jane
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