Seniors Living and Working in Vans

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Seniors Living and Working in Vans

October 02, 2020, 08:54:29 am

An interesting story last night on the PBS Newshour about folks living a minimalist lifestyle in vans, and how some are making money while doing it. Much of it was recorded in Quartzsite.

How some older Americans are monetizing their #VanLife | PBS NewsHour

Bill

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #1 – October 02, 2020, 11:14:33 am

Our first RV was a van and though we long since moved onwards and upwards I have always kept a van around for day trips to hike and bike. It's nice to have someplace to hang out and have lunch and a cold drink after either activity and to change clothes before and after. This summer we even did an overnight trip to a mt bike ride a bit too far for a one day event.

I myself still enjoy van camping and use ours on a regular basis to visit family in California. It's great to be able to pull over anytime anywhere and sleep on a bed and make a simple meal on a camp stove and coffee in the moring. Yes I'm a van man.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #2 – October 02, 2020, 12:44:41 pm

I've been full timing now for 13 years.
For most of these years I've had a variety of computer jobs that has allowed me to continue to live
a nomadic lifestyle, one I started 20 years ago. Internet connection, and I'm good to go.
With the way things have gone in the last 6 months, my lifestyle has suddenly become much more popular.
What I've seen out here is a lot of van dwellers, some are very prepared and will do well.
But, I've seen a lot struggling and not really wanting to be here, just in survival mode until things get better.

It's a great way to live if you can deal with things. Cheap too, if you use public lands and boondock.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #3 – October 02, 2020, 03:07:07 pm

"Cheap too, if you use public lands and boondock."

If you can find a place to do it. In my experience, the good boondocking spots on public lands are filling up with vandwellers and "Cheap RV Living" devotees. Many areas have been closed to camping because people have trashed the landscape before moving on.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #4 – October 02, 2020, 03:29:56 pm

Quote from: Andy Baird - October 02, 2020, 03:07:07 pm

If you can find a place to do it. In my experience, the good boondocking spots on public lands are filling up with vandwellers and "Cheap RV Living" devotees. Many areas have been closed to camping because people have trashed the landscape before moving on.

Andy, you are absolutely correct. The pictures from the Southern Sierra's recently beginning with the Labor Day holiday were depressing. Piles of trash, destroyed vegetation, moved barricades and boulders, wall-to-wall cars, trucks, RV's, tents, popups.... This resulted a shutdown of almost everything. And then people were caught moving and/or going around barricades to access "boondocking" spots. This in spite of a $1,000 fine being implemented.

Charles

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #5 – October 02, 2020, 03:31:39 pm

It is getting harder to find places that haven't been abused or closed from abuse.
And crowding into the remaining good spots is becoming problematic.
Fires aren't helping and with so many out of work and being thrust into a lifestyle they don't want, it won't be getting any better anytime soon.
Flexibility is something I've always been accustomed to. My patience is going to be tested in the coming years as the situation unfolds.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #6 – October 02, 2020, 05:04:21 pm

Quote from: Andy Baird - October 02, 2020, 03:07:07 pm

If you can find a place to do it. In my experience, the good boondocking spots on public lands are filling up with vandwellers and "Cheap RV Living" devotees. Many areas have been closed to camping because people have trashed the landscape before moving on.

I found out about Lazy Daze from Cheap RV Living's site. They interviewed a woman who had a 27 Mid Bath and I couldn't believe that rear lounge and all the windows -- and all in the same size as a friend's Winnebago with very little outside views. (Why do people want RVs with little windows?)

Then I found your wonderful website on all the modifications you've done on the two LDs you owned, Andy, and through that found this wonderful group.

I wish I could find the woman who was interviewed. She moved from a 24 TK to a 27 MB, and I'm deciding between the two, and would love her input.

Kat

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #7 – October 02, 2020, 05:39:59 pm

Quote from: kat - October 02, 2020, 05:04:21 pm

I found out about Lazy Daze from Cheap RV Living's site. They interviewed a woman who had a 27 Mid Bath and I couldn't believe that rear lounge and all the windows

Ditto!

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #8 – October 02, 2020, 08:25:21 pm

Quote from: Jota - October 02, 2020, 03:31:39 pm

It is getting harder to find places that haven't been abused or closed from abuse.
And crowding into the remaining good spots is becoming problematic.

I took a nearly decade RV hiatus to build a retirement home among other distractions and was excited to get back into it the summer before this last one. Things had changed so much I could hardly believe it. Our favorite boondocking sites that were always quiet and peaceful were a circus. I was so disillusioned I came home and sold my LD that I had bought to get back in the game. I can only imagine how things have deteriorated with the covid RV boom.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #9 – October 02, 2020, 08:50:26 pm

This year in the Flagstaff area, the Naval observatory area and A-1 mountain are closed.
I used A-1 mountain 12 years ago and there were maybe 5 or 6 others there at any time.
Two years ago when I went to have a look see, there had to be 70 or more RV's crammed into a pretty small area.
Not surprised they finally closed it off.
With both of the closest to Flagstaff spots now closed, a hundred or more RV's had to find a new place to be.
I went over to Walnut Canyon to see what that was like, being the new closest spot to be.
It was crammed full of van dwellers, the people that need to be near a town to get supplies and dump more often.
So, it won't be long before that gets closed off, forcing everyone farther away from town.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #10 – October 03, 2020, 07:45:49 am

I regret that others have found, as we have, that boondocking is not like it was even a few years ago. We enjoyed the thrill of finding a spot with nothing but horizon, parking for a few days, and enjoying our backyard.

The last few years have been hotter. I don't know if that's global warming or not. We experienced temps in the high 90 in upper BC along with forest fires for weeks. Same in Montana last year - 90's in June.

Our early long long trips were in a van towing something. The van allowed us to explore and take a nap under a shade tree in the afternoon. We missed the naps with the LD/Jeep duo.

We backed out of a new LD with regret, but health problems finally convinced us that was not a good idea.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #11 – October 03, 2020, 09:21:14 am

On a positive note I think for people that want the boondocking experience it is still possible to go out in the middle of nowhere and be alone but you have to steer clear of the usual destination areas. Several highways I can think of through eastern Oregon, Nevada and western Utah have dirt roads taking off with markers saying such and such gap or mountain twenty miles. These roads just disappear into the desert and I'm sure if you turned up one you'd find isolation if that's all you are looking for.
I've done that several times on trips to see my mom in California by circuitous explore routes in my travel van and have camped overnight with nothing but coyote and stars for company. You can still do it if you preserve and are happy with sagebrush instead of red rock cliffs or Seguro cactus.

My theme song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z_SOobHOw4

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #12 – October 03, 2020, 09:40:05 am

Quote from: Jota - October 02, 2020, 08:50:26 pm

This year in the Flagstaff area, the Naval observatory area and A-1 mountain are closed.
I used A-1 mountain 12 years ago and there were maybe 5 or 6 others there at any time.

I stayed there for 4 days in August of last year. It was more crowded near the entrance but pretty nice a little further in. I'm sad to read it's closed. I was hoping to get there for a longer stay.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #13 – October 03, 2020, 10:19:39 am

The message and picture below was posted September 10 in the Facebook group Crowded Campgrounds by a representative of New Mexico’s Lincoln National Forest.

"This past weekend, the National Forest was met with significant feedback on the state of the forest in areas such as Bluff Springs outside of Cloudcroft. Many people were upset and angry about what they saw and, to be frank, so were we.

Over the last several months, we have tried a number of things to keep these areas pristine for you to enjoy, but we are running out of options."

‘We have never before seen this level of complete disregard for nature by people who come to enjoy it and we, as a whole, are disheartened by it.’

So disheartening.

Charles

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #14 – October 03, 2020, 10:59:11 am

Heartbreaking picture.
I'm also seeing graffiti on rock faces lately that is even worse than trash.

Litter, graffiti, vandalism increasing at Colorado state parks, national forests

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #15 – October 03, 2020, 02:45:18 pm

Appalling. :-(

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #16 – October 03, 2020, 02:49:04 pm

"We have never before seen this level of complete disregard for nature by people who come to enjoy it and we, as a whole, are disheartened by it."

This is indeed sad to see, but, I'd like to know more before attributing all of the blame on visitors to the NF for the nature or camping experience (not that it couldn't be a contributing factor). To me, two things stand out in the first picture. Lots of this trash appears to be of a sort that campers normally wouldn't\couldn't be hauling around with them. More likely, much of it could be locals that can't afford to take their trash to the dump, to pay someone to do it for them right now, or simply don't care and look for any place to dump their trash without getting caught. Further, I couldn't fill one of those big, black bags in two or three weeks with the trash I generate when camping, so that's a bit puzzling too.

Second, this couldn't happen overnight or even a few days, so I have to wonder how it could get to that point in the first place? I'm sure budgets, personnel, distance, increased usage, priority, and other unknowns may all be contributing factors, but it's hard to imagine there isn't a way to manage this better than it is right now!

JMHO

Bill

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #17 – October 03, 2020, 04:31:05 pm

When I think back to what boondocking once was this song comes to mind. Kind of melancholy and fitting.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #18 – October 03, 2020, 06:51:29 pm

Quote from: krmugn - October 03, 2020, 02:49:04 pm

To me, two things stand out in the first picture. Lots of this trash appears to be of a sort that campers normally wouldn't\couldn't be hauling around with them. More likely, much of it could be locals that can't afford to take their trash to the dump, to pay someone to do it for them right now, or simply don't care and look for any place to dump their trash without getting caught. Further, I couldn't fill one of those big, black bags in two or three weeks with the trash I generate when camping, so that's a bit puzzling too.

Second, this couldn't happen overnight or even a few days, so I have to wonder how it could get to that point in the first place? I'm sure budgets, personnel, distance, increased usage, priority, and other unknowns may all be contributing factors, but it's hard to imagine there isn't a way to manage this better than it is right now!

You are wrong! Obviously you haven't experienced what has happened here in southern California. These are not people that can't afford to take their trash to the local dump. Many of these people come from outside of these areas and communities. We have friends that live in the California southern Sierra Mountains, in the Kern River Valley, and family that lives in the northern Tehachapi Mountains. They all reported much similar occurrences over the Labor Day holiday weekend. For those that don't know the geography, this area is in central California north of the Mojave Desert and Los Angeles and is a range of about 75 to 100 miles, north to south. They even reported and shared pictures of cars and trucks illegally parked on local streets that showed fire trucks and emergency vehicles being unable to pass. In some areas local volunteers were out daily hauling off the trash only to come back the next day to more of the same.

Charles

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #19 – October 03, 2020, 11:11:05 pm

Too many people on too little land for too much time.   The dumpsters at La Posa LTVA at Quartzite were inadequate for the traffic in January. And that's before the government shut down.   It didn't take long for the dumpsters to be buried under the pile. Volunteers in town organized and hauled some to the dump. It wasn't adequate but it helped till Congress got around to another continuing funding resolution.

I think many of us boondock with a sense of stewardship for the land we are visiting.   Maybe we are an endangered species, being driven out by the screwardship poplulation.
joel

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #20 – October 04, 2020, 08:55:34 am

I feel very fortunate to live where I do and really haven’t noticed any change around here. NE Washington is not a tourist destination. It’s dairy farms, ranches and sawmills. Our small towns have no infrastructure for homeless so they don’t come here. We went hiking the other day on a trail that takes off from a campground that was empty and pristinely clean. Same thing with another boondock area we stayed at this summer for a mt bike trail. Think I’ll just spend what’s left of my life right around here.
Maybe I should be keeping my big mouth shut about this area

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #21 – October 04, 2020, 09:05:05 am

Our mt bike trail van boondock camp

Upper Priest River/American Falls - Idaho Conservation League

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #22 – October 04, 2020, 11:28:13 am

The over/mis-use of public lands is a disturbing trend. Friends in Western Wyoming have observed that Covid-visitors & Vanlifers have found many of the less known dispersed camping areas with vans/tents/RVs. Whether through social media, online maps or otherwise, even the more remote camping areas are overfull & overused.

I imagine that new public lands policies & systems will be necessary to deal with the growing use & abuse. Quartzite is a good example of such changes being tested. Other good practices include the National Forest “Camp Host” model. Ultimately, though, I believe this is a “Values” problem, ie; unless those embracing a “screwardship” value system (thanks Joel), come to understand and embrace “stewardship” values held by many/most of the FOLD, we may find our cherished camping accessible public lands diminished or destroyed.

Rather than bemoan the state of affairs, perhaps some of those that believe in traditional land Stewardship values could take to YouTube (as suggested in the PBS segment posted by Krmugn), to urge a responsible boondocking code?

Warren (White Elk)

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #23 – October 04, 2020, 01:24:19 pm

For many reasons, boondocking locations have been taken over by the homeless. (The reasons are political, so I will not go into all that) Things that are free will be abused. The only way out that I can see is to have an annual permit to boondock on public lands. The fee amount should be non-trivial, more than enough to cover the costs of dealing with the trash. I am talking about the trash for a landfill, not the trash that puts trash anywhere.

Re: Seniors Living and Working in Vans

Reply #24 – October 04, 2020, 02:50:15 pm

It's already difficult for the forest service and other agencies to enforce the rules in place now.
Budget cuts are coming, and with them will be less enforcement, so I think the problems are going to get worse.
At some point, closing certain forests might be the only option available.

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