Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #25 – June 18, 2020, 11:14:26 pm The panels are all identical, 160 watts. This install was Sept 2015, I hear panels that size are 170 watts now.Even spending 2-3 months off grid for the winter, I've never needed to tilt the panels, which was part of the reason for the excess wattage. I could probably deal with an extra panel in place of the batwing, but I think cramming another up front would adversely affect roof access.Sorry for the belated replies.Steve
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #26 – June 18, 2020, 11:44:30 pm Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - June 18, 2020, 06:45:49 pmAndy,Garrett mentioned that they carry most items in stock and my final chooses can be discussed upon arriving at the shop. I do agree that 90 watts is rather underpowered but fitting the available real estate is a prime consideration. As of now nothing is etched in stone. If a larger more powerful panel will fit, I’d rather go for the Zamp 190 watt dual mode panels. At $365 each, the price seems more in line with your dollar to watt concerns.I’m not sure what will become of the original panels. Ditching them is no big deal. I’d like to be closer to 1000 watts top side. Perhaps shifting the original panels to another location can be an option. As the panels will be run in parallel, shading should not present too much of an issue from what I understand. At this point, the scheduled install date is set. Once I get there, Garrett will most likely do his best to obtain the best overall panel configuration for the rig. I hope my interjections on this thread have not appeared as a hijack. Seemed pretty appropriate to me.Stay safe.KentI felt a slight hijack twinge.But I'm thankful for the discussion. I'm learning 😎All good. 1 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #27 – June 19, 2020, 12:55:41 am Right--"if it fits" is the key. The 100 W Grape Solar panel at Home Depot is very cost-effective (80 cents per watt), but it's five inches wider and three pounds heavier than a Renogy Eclipse 100 W panel. On the other hand, the Eclipse panel costs twice as much. That's the tradeoff with polycrystalline vs. monocrystalline panels: they're cheaper, but larger. If you have room for them, they are a bargain.
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #28 – September 04, 2020, 02:41:26 pm Hi,Based on the knowledge here, I did some calculation and I think our power consumption would be around 130 ah/day. Out of 130 hours, 50 ah will be needed for two lap and two telephone charging. Do truck alternator create enough current during let say 4 hours driving to top off batteries (110 ah) and charge two laptops and cell phones? I know 230 W solar will help with battery charging but for now I am assuming a very cloudy day. I also need to find out if I can charge our laptops with 12V available during driving. I am also not sure even if alternator is capable of generating enough current will our machine will be able to charge quickly with 12V available during driving.I think with two batteries we should be fine if we drive daily and if I add two more AGM batteries it will last us for two days and beyond that if do not want to drive, then we will need to run generator. All this is just based on calculations, guess I will find out soon when rubber hit the road :-)If you are wondering, beside charging laptops and cell phones, other biggest consumption is coming from Bipap which would be close to 35ah but guess if push come .. I can turn off humidifier and heated tube to save energy.PS: In this thread there was some discussion about solar cost .. for home solar panels, Tesla recently reduced prices and with all federal and NJ credits, price is around $1.5/KW installed. Of course battery technology for entire home is still pretty expensive.Thanks
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #29 – September 04, 2020, 03:56:36 pm Muhammad, at 130 ah you are in the neighborhood of my daily consumption. I use a BiPAP all night, every night. I use a Mac for a lot of hours per day. I use a Quasar TV for at least 6 hours per day. I use a Dishnetwork Hopper DVR for 24 hours per day. Incidental other uses are charging my phone every few days, charging my iPad every few days, running my inverter, a coffee grinder, and lights. In the morning, my 6 AGM batteries are at about 80%,needing about 110 to 120 ah to recharge. My usage sounds higher than yours, so your estimate may be a bit high, but let's assume you are on target.When I am traveling, 6 days in the spring, 5 days in the early summer, and 5 days in the fall, those 4 hour days using the engine's alternator keep my battery bank at 100%. When I am parked, the rest of the time, my panels (5 AM100 panels) will fully charge my 6 batteries on full sun days, Wyoming area, from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Outside that time frame or weather, I need to add some generator time, up to 90 minutes mid-winter in New Mexico, or more on a cloudy or rainy day.If you are traveling 4 hours a day, every day, your alternator will probably keep your batteries charged. Of greater concern to me than the recharging is your battery drain. I may have missed something, but it sounds like you will be drawing your two batteries way down. Drawing to 50% repeatedly will dramatically shorten battery life.Ken F in WY, 2 PM, with my batteries approaching 100%, 1 hour to go. 3 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #30 – September 04, 2020, 04:41:46 pm Thanks Ken. Information about alternator is informative and new chassis comes with bigger alternator which is a bonus. You are right about conservative estimate, it is by design. I am using BiPaP for 20+ years and I don't think I slept without it since then .. no need to take any risk there .. I do remember you recently upgraded to Lithium which I think can take more current for charging and my result may differ but for now I am happy with your input. I am aware of discharge level and life expectancy and will work towards 70% goal after judging the system.If I had a choice, I would have asked LD to not put any batteries or solar panels and take new motor home for upgrade right after delivery. Now that I paid for the system I will just add two AGM identical batteries and enjoy it for few years. Second reason for my calculation was to judge the bottleneck. It does not make sense to add batteries if I can not charge additional batteries without running generator. I will not rush to add two additional batteries but I think two solar panels with expected driving and reasonable generator usage should support charging 440 ah AGM batteries in future.Thanks Ken, input is useful.Regards,
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #31 – September 04, 2020, 05:11:47 pm "I will not rush to add two additional batteries but I think two solar panels with expected driving and reasonable generator usage should support charging 440 ah AGM batteries in future."I have, in my 2004 30'IB, two AGM batterys, 3 100w solar panels. I find this arrangement to be more than capable with reasonable use. Most sunny days I will be at 100% before noon, whether I'm camped or not, rain and snow exempted! 1 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #32 – September 04, 2020, 07:29:22 pm If the batteries are down a 130-amp/hours in the morning, and your rig only has the stock two 6-volt batteries, they are being discharged much too deeply for a decent life span. You need at least four of the 6-volt batteries or a 300-amp/hour lithium battery.On a clear summer day, our LD's 500-watts of solar can replaced a 120-amp/hours while supplying power for the radio and refrigerator. On a cloudy summer day, which we have had a lot of this summer in the Sierras, about a third of that.It's the lack of solar in the late fall, winter, and early spring that challenges the batteries and can require lengthy generator runs.Installing a larger converter can shorten generator run time as well as installing as many solar panels as possible.If the engine and/or generator is going to be a major source of battery charging, lithium's ability to keep charging at high rates until nearly filled is worth considering. AGM and lead-acid batteries charge rates drop as they are recharged, replacing the last 10-20% percent of charge can take hours.Some machine users carry a separate, backup battery pack, good for one night, used if the coach battery system is dead or has problems.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #33 – September 04, 2020, 07:56:17 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - September 04, 2020, 05:11:47 pm"I will not rush to add two additional batteries but I think two solar panels with expected driving and reasonable generator usage should support charging 440 ah AGM batteries in future."I have, in my 2004 30'IB, two AGM batterys, 3 100w solar panels. I find this arrangement to be more than capable with reasonable use. Most sunny days I will be at 100% before noon, whether I'm camped or not, rain and snow exempted! Thanks. Good information. We do not need more power compared to an average couple. Your empirical data support my calculations.Issue is BiPaP which include a humidifier and a heated tube. Heated tube is a recent addition, I used to have a covering on a regular tube to reduce condensation and if need be I can easily go back low tech solution. As for humidifier, it is also a lifestyle issue instead of medical need and I can turn down humidifier as well. As Larry said perhaps a separate integrated battery pack and inverter can solve it. But then I will always have to remember to charge portable pack which take me to Larry's other suggesting to add two more batteries. Toad told me that I can place two additional batteries under the fridge and location is close to outside battery compartment as well.I will simply wait few weeks to understand if any modification is needed and if yes then what.Thanks team, I got enough information to move fast at right time.Regards,
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #34 – September 04, 2020, 08:29:25 pm Quote from: Larry W - September 04, 2020, 07:29:22 pm..Installing a larger converter can shorten generator run time as well as installing as many solar panels as possible.....Larry,Thanks for the help.I am not sure if I will be successful but plan is to stay away from 110 appliances. Even for microwave, if we do not have shore power or we cannot use generator, I know we will be very happy with propane stove. BiPaP is 24V and I already purchased 12V to 24V converter, does not make sense to waste energy on conversion twice. At this point we are happy that we will have the luxury of home when we will travel, a big jump from what we are used to.Regards,
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #35 – September 04, 2020, 09:26:02 pm "Issue is BiPaP which include a humidifier and a heated tube. Heated tube is a recent addition, I used to have a covering on a regular tube to reduce condensation and if need be I can easily go back low tech solution."We put a fleece tube around our C-PAP hose. I used a handy dandy, ready-made fleece neck scarf and just whipped the two long sides together. It has worked well since 2006 - no electricity needed! Virtual hugs, Judie 3 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #36 – September 05, 2020, 12:18:00 pm Muhammad, If you plan on adding two additional Lifeline AGM batteries it would would be better earlier than later. One doesn't want to mix batteries of different ages as I have learned from others on this forum. 1 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #37 – September 05, 2020, 01:47:28 pm Mike,Absolutely, I do not want to mix and match batteries and your suggestion is the easiest option but then practicality .... I understand these batteries are heavy and I cannot order them in advance and carry with me. I am not sure if these batteries have liquid market and I can go to any auto shop and buy these batteries right after getting motor home delivery. Then there is installation, battery connections are straight forward but getting right size wires with right connection (and tools) and wire putting hole(s) in brand new motorhome :-( and securing batteries. Even if I surpass all these hurdles, AGM batteries are heavy and with my back (I do have morphine pump installed under my skin for back issues), I will not take the risk especially when we are planning to spend few months on the road. This beg me to ask, how can I find reputable place close to Vegas who can install new batteries if I can give them advance notice?I was also thinking about responses here and looked at my 50% rate of discharge assumption. If I stay at 75%, this give about 55amh. If I can charge two laptops and cell phones while we are driving or when solar is producing more then battery can take and modify BiPaP usage then perhaps between Fridge, lights, sensors, water pump, TV and water pump we should be fine with two batteries. If I have a choice, I will still like to put two batteries as they are not expensive and will provide peace of mind. I also asked Toad to put in bigger batteries from the same vendor and of course request was denied.As for monitoring the battery, assuming that I do not have battery monitor, is taking the voltmeter out to the batteries is the only option to check charge level? Do solar panel show the volts, are these volts good indicator, I assume panel will show the volt applied to the battery which should be higher. I guess solar panel can also how the current going in the battery, can this information can be used any way to find battery charge level?I will not mind going out with a voltmeter as this will be only for few days. Our consumption will not change from day to day basis. I got these volt to charge level correlation on interest, are these good indicators for stock AGM batteries?12.65 / 100% 12.47 / 75% 12.34 / 50% 12.24 / 25% 11.89 / 0% I want to again thank this kind group to take time and help.Regards,
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #38 – September 05, 2020, 02:04:10 pm Quote from: Judie Ashford - September 04, 2020, 09:26:02 pmWe put a fleece tube around our C-PAP hose. Judie,Agree.I had this arrangement between 1999 - 2017 and works like a charm. For the first year of BiPaP usage, I had no idea why I was getting so much water on my face and continue to wake up every couple of hours. There was not much information on the internet on this topic then and took me a while to figure it out. I do agree, in this case, new technology has only cosmetic impact, fleece tube cover achieve the same result. I also read that one of the vendor spent millions creating electric tubes :-) and as for any medical equipment, this solution is bit expensive and though insurance cover it all of us are paying indirectly.PS: Not sure you do remember our email exchange couple of years when I was deciding between LazyDaze and Sportsmobile.Be well.
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #39 – September 05, 2020, 02:32:22 pm "PS: Not sure you do remember our email exchange couple of years when I was deciding between LazyDaze and Sportsmobile."Indeed I do. It was almost exactly two years ago -circa 9/18/18. Hope my words helped you in your decision. Always pleased to pass along what I know!!! Virtual hugs, Judie
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #40 – September 05, 2020, 02:51:31 pm Of course it did. Could not have gone wrong with Sportsmobile either. Both of them are nice vendors and nice products but for different segments.
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #41 – September 05, 2020, 08:10:08 pm Hi Muhammed; The voltage displayed on your solar controller is a good digital meter. The voltages are skewed high with sunlight charging the batteries. After sundown, the battery voltage displayed will be more realistic. There will still be some surface charge just after the charger quits, but having a load like a few lights on will result in a good reading. A handheld meter will have the same issues. I always travel with a small DVM for other troubleshooting, but that's what I did for a living. The batteries you add don't have to be identical, but ask Lazy Daze if they will sell you two more. They do have them in stock. All four would be the same age. maybe even the same lot#. AGM batteries are WLA, Wet Lead Acid, and yes they are full of liquid sulfuric acid. They are however sealed and won't leak. Lazy Daze's prices are usually reasonable. And they will probably load them in the cabinet you specify. If you pay them a little extra, I'd see if Todd would actually have them installed for you in parallel with the other bank. As far as I've heard, the batteries don't move around much. A strap around both will probably keep them in one place under the refrigerator. You can buy pre-made battery cables. They will only be a foot or so from the other ones. Tell them you are taking a slow route back to New Jersey and you are concerned about the CPap power drain. You can of course stop at campgrounds with full hookups alternate nights. The batteries are new, and the new chassis has a 210 amp alternator. Thats over 3 kilowatts. Remember the generator is only 4 kilowatts. I doubt that you will need to run the generator at all. It is almost exclusively for the microwave and the roof air conditioner. The solar will keep things good until you get far north, the days are shorter, and bad weather limits solar. That is when you will need the generator. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #42 – September 05, 2020, 09:05:02 pm Thanks Ron.I did not think of asking LD for help, I will follow up. I will be very happy if battery can be loaded on the motorhome. As for your comment about reasonable price, in my very little experience so far, I don't think Todd or his team is after the money, they just want to do the right job.As for full hook up sites, we are new to this type of travelling. Initially I will prefer to stay on full hook sites and concentrate on understanding the systems and make this transition easy for us.Take care,
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #43 – September 06, 2020, 09:26:43 am I am in the process of evaluating this bad boy Jackery 1000. In a few week I'll share my thoughts.glen 1 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #44 – September 06, 2020, 10:41:23 am Quote from: colddog - September 06, 2020, 09:26:43 amI am in the process of evaluating this bad boy Jackery 1000. In a few week I'll share my thoughts.glenDoes this mean you've bought one, Glen?Chris
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #45 – September 06, 2020, 10:42:36 am Muhammad, What Ron said about watching your battery voltage on the solar panel is all I ever did. If LD can't install your extra batteries, wait until you return home as the two Lifeline original batteries will see you through your trip ok. Once you are home you will have the time to easily decide what direction to take with additional batteries. With my previous LD I had added two additional Lifeline batteries and never had a low power problem while boondocking which we did a lot of. Two solar panels came with our motorhome. By the way, you are dealing with Todd at the LD factory, not Toad. We look forward to hearing about your return home trip when the time comes.
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #46 – September 06, 2020, 10:46:44 am Quote from: colddog - September 06, 2020, 09:26:43 amI am in the process of evaluating this bad boy Jackery 1000. Just a note to those considering a portable powerstation purchase (PPP?); your local power company may offer a rebate. Ours does here in SoCal:Southern California Edison
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #47 – September 06, 2020, 10:47:22 am Quote from: Mike Coachman - September 06, 2020, 10:42:36 amMuhammad, What Ron said about watching your battery voltage on the solar panel is all I ever did. If LD can't install your extra batteries, wait until you return home as the two Lifeline original batteries will see you through your trip ok. Once you are home you will have the time to easily decide what direction to take with additional batteries. With my previous LD I had added two additional Lifeline batteries and never had a low power problem while boondocking which we did a lot of. Two solar panels came with our motorhome. By the way, you are dealing with Todd at the LD factory, not Toad. We look forward to hearing about your return home trip when the time comes. Toad is now Todd. 1 Likes
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #48 – September 06, 2020, 11:42:34 am "Just a note to those considering a portable powerstation purchase (PPP?); your local power company may offer a rebate. Ours does here in SoCal:Southern California Edison"As an avid proponent and user of remote battery power for all of my iOS and computer needs, I would jump on the $50. off of the small Jackery unit, bringing the cost down to $100.00 - a nice percentage of discount. As it stands now, I juggle about eight different smaller units that are measured in mA's, but fit into my purse, or hospital overnight bags.I would love to have one of the Jackery models to experiment with. Can you tell if this offer is good for folks not acquiring electrical needs from Southern California Edison? Virtual hugs, Judie
Re: Extra solar panel option Reply #49 – September 06, 2020, 11:53:40 am Judie, I believe it’s only for SCE customers but your local power company may have a similar deal. I’ve been thinking about getting one as well!
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