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new engine-transmission recommendations?
My 1984 money pit project is going to the next $$$$ cross roads. I smell a new engine in the future, and because of past experience, will be replacing the transmission at the same time. I want to be able to tow a small car or small trailer from time to time. Does anyone have advice or recommendations please as this is new for me to be doing? Thank you * these 84's have Chevrolet 350s in them*
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #1 –
Quote from: Teresa  - 
My 1984 money pit project is going to the next $$$$ cross roads. I smell a new engine in the future, and because of past experience, will be replacing the transmission at the same time. I want to be able to tow a small car or small trailer from time to time. Does anyone have advice or recommendations please as this is new for me to be doing? Thank you * these 84's have Chevrolet 350s in them*

The 1984 G30s used a Turbo 400 three-speed transmission. It's a strong transmission but does not have an overdrive gear,
It can be replaced with a 4L80E, 4-speed overdrive but it is a very expensive upgrade that requires specialized knowledge.
IMO, the 165-HP 350 V8, and its cooling system, are not up to the task of pulling any small car, it can barely get the LD up a steep grade on its own.
I tried towing with our 1983 LD, it was a miserable failure and very stressful to the underpowered engine and the driver.

If me, I would not spend any money on the 1984, instead saving my money for a later model LD with a V10, a combination capable of pulling a small car. The later model LD's engines and transmissions are superior to the older models

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #2 –
When we had our '83, I never found any available CA smog-legal upgrade to the engine to allow improved performance or even throttle-body fuel injection. Without that, there is no hope to safely tow a small car. If you want that in your future, I would not stay with the small-block Chevy, but opt instead to search for a newer rig on the Ford chassis.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #3 –
Agreed, that vintage LD is not worth putting the money into if towing is desired. Had to cross my fingers every time I drove up a significant grade when I had my '85 TK (with the same chassis/engine combo as yours). Couldn't imagine towing a car with it, although the previous owner of my rig did tow a boat with it.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #4 –
Well darn. I am already $$$$ into this project though, so bring it  :o  :-\  :P  But I wont be selling or getting a different LD. Other then the huge expenses, it is exactly what I always wanted. I bought it just a couple years ago and already had tons of work done on it, upgrading shocks and brakes and about 5 grand worth of stuff at the mechanic shop. Then off to the RV place where I have also had about 5 grand worth of stuff done and waiting on them now to finish rebuilding the front cap bunk because of moisture rot. This LD has become my never ending $ pit project. I hope to be able to use it one day lol ugh
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #5 –
We drove our '83 FL for 19 years, and it was a decade old when we bought it. Had the engine rebuilt off the bat, and replaced the tranny after a decade, but its small size enabled us to get almost anywhere we wanted, and parking was usually not an issue. We carried bikes often, but never a toad. These days, an electric bike and solar panels to keep the battery charged would be a good alternative. If you go with a partner, they can drive-along instead of towing, though campgrounds usually charge a daily extra-vehicle fee for that. It takes a LOT of extra vehicle fees to equal the initial cost of setting up for a toad.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Steve  - 
We drove our '83 FL for 19 years, and it was a decade old when we bought it. Had the engine rebuilt off the bat, and replaced the tranny after a decade, but its small size enabled us to get almost anywhere we wanted, and parking was usually not an issue. We carried bikes often, but never a toad. These days, an electric bike and solar panels to keep the battery charged would be a good alternative. If you go with a partner, they can drive-along instead of towing, though campgrounds usually charge a daily extra-vehicle fee for that. It takes a LOT of extra vehicle fees to equal the initial cost of setting up for a toad.

Steve

Yes I love the rv actually. I was driving a 40 footer for awhile but I am older now and getting ready for retirement and really dont want or need something that size anymore. Instead I love the size of this LD plus the windows are to die for! And it is an older vintage model that I can customize with my own tastes for fabrics and paint and stuff. I like the lines outside and the big window in the overhead cab. I really am in love with it. My son will sometimes like to go camping and I was just thinking it might be nice to have an older 13 footish small trailer to tow for him to use. Or maybe a small trailer to put my golf cart on? Or maybe once in awhile tow a small car, but that all seems a no go from what everyone says here........ sigh
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #7 –
Teresa, I owned a 1985 twin/king for a number of years and can confirm what others have said about towing a car. The Chevy 30's V8 engine is just adequate to move the weight of the 22' Lazy Daze coach, but it doesn't have any power in reserve for towing. Even without any extra baggage, it's prone to "cooking" the starter motor, cracking the exhaust manifold, and other symptoms of an engine that is being overworked in a cramped space.

I own a 13' fiberglass trailer, and it weighs about 1,600 pounds. I wouldn't try to tow that much weight with a 1984 or 1985 LD. And I'm guessing that a trailer with a golf cart would weigh at least as much.

Steve's suggestion to have your son drive separately, then camp together in the LD, is probably your best bet. That has the added advantage that you will have a car on hand for running errands, sightseeing and exploring.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #8 –
Well I can still put my scooter and lift on the tow hitch, and my son can use a tent lol
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #9 –
Well, I'll be the one to say go for it but there are costs associated with it.

Summit Racing (others have it, as well) offers a GM Performance crate engine that is around 2200 bucks (I just bought one for my brothers truck a few months back) that is a brand new engine (zero used components) and has around 250hp. They have several variations and some have more power than others but they do cost more, of course.

For most purposes, this would be a fine upgrade for a coach like yours BUT if you have serious aspirations of towing, I would suggest one of the higher end options like the 330hp one. I'm on my phone and laying in bed but when I get a little more time I will post the applicable links.

As far as the tranny, keep the TH400.

You can upgrade to a 4L80E like suggested previously but it requires an auxiliary controller and doesn't work as well as it would if it were placed in front of a fuel injected engine where both would be controlled from the same computer like in an LS application.

If you have tons of money to throw around get a newer 6.0 out of a newer (2010+ GM truck) referred to as a L96 and the matching tranny from the same vehicle (6L90E I believe) and you will be passing brand new RVs all day long BUT it will be the most expensive option.

If you're having a shop do this work it is going to be expensive no matter which way you go but you can save tons of money on labor doing things yourself and have more money for better parts.
2000 26.5 MB
 
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #10 –
Quote from: Teresa  - 
Well I can still put my scooter and lift on the tow hitch, and my son can use a tent lol

That sounds like a more feasible approach, once fully loaded be sure to have it weighed, front and rear axles separately, to make sure it doesn't exceed the 11,000-lb GVW or either the front or rear axle weight ratings. The weight information is also useful in determining the correct tire pressure for each axle..
The Chevy G30 doesn't have a lot of extra CCC and is easy to overload.

Our 1983, 22' Front Lounge, when loaded with the toys, was always at or slightly above the GVW. The whole suspension was upgraded to handle the maximum load weight, expensive but worth it.
The G30 was LD's standard chassis for many years, the shorter LDs did not get the E450 chassis, and its 14,050-lb GVW, until 2003.

Larry
2003 23.5’ FL
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #11 –
Quote from: jtrux  - 
Well, I'll be the one to say go for it but there are costs associated with it.

Summit Racing (others have it, as well) offers a GM Performance crate engine that is around 2200 bucks (I just bought one for my brothers truck a few months back) that is a brand new engine (zero used components) and has around 250hp. They have several variations and some have more power than others but they do cost more, of course.

For most purposes, this would be a fine upgrade for a coach like yours BUT if you have serious aspirations of towing, I would suggest one of the higher end options like the 330hp one. I'm on my phone and laying in bed but when I get a little more time I will post the applicable links.

As far as the tranny, keep the TH400.

You can upgrade to a 4L80E like suggested previously but it requires an auxiliary controller and doesn't work as well as it would if it were placed in front of a fuel injected engine where both would be controlled from the same computer like in an LS application.

If you have tons of money to throw around get a newer 6.0 out of a newer (2010+ GM truck) referred to as a L96 and the matching tranny from the same vehicle (6L90E I believe) and you will be passing brand new RVs all day long BUT it will be the most expensive option.

If you're having a shop do this work it is going to be expensive no matter which way you go but you can save tons of money on labor doing things yourself and have more money for better parts.
I will not be doing the job myself but I am figuring about another 5 grand? Expensive is a relative term. I am rebuilding this motorhome to be my dream motorhome for the next 30 to 40 years. Plus will be selling my daily driver and using this motorhome instead. I do live in flatland desert of California, so have smogging to contend with plus extreme heat. But would love to go to places like Tahoe and even Oregon or Washington or Idaho with it. Eventually Arkansas is on the books and Missouri too.
The reason I am thinking my transmission too is because I used to own a 1978 Corvette and the engine had to be rebuilt. Within a few months of the engine being rebuilt though, the transmission pooped out and had to be rebuilt too. I was told at the time you cant do one without doing the other because the new energy and all gets to be too much for an older tired one.
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #12 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
That sounds like a more feasible approach, once fully loaded be sure to have it weighed, front and rear axles separately, to make sure it doesn't exceed the 11,000-lb GVW or either the front or rear axle weight ratings. The weight information is also useful in determining the correct tire pressure for each axle..
The Chevy G30 doesn't have a lot of extra CCC and is easy to overload.

Our 1983, 22' Front Lounge, when loaded with the toys, was always at or slightly above the GVW. The whole suspension was upgraded to handle the maximum load weight, expensive but worth it.
The G30 was LD's standard chassis for many years, the shorter LDs did not get the E450 chassis, and its 14,050-lb GVW, until 2003.

Larry
2003 23.5’ FL
Hi Larry. My "scooter" is a motorized wheelchair. My son can lift it by himself, so I think it will be ok. I am not sure why the PO had a hitch put on the motorhome since towing is so poor? Maybe for just a box to hold a generator or something?
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #13 –
Quote from: Teresa  - 
Hi Larry. My "scooter" is a motorized wheelchair. My son can lift it by himself, so I think it will be ok. I am not sure why the PO had a hitch put on the motorhome since towing is so poor? Maybe for just a box to hold a generator or something?
Your model probably came from the factory with the hitch, as mine did. I used it simply for a 2-bike rack but the previous owner used it to tow his boat from the LA area to Lake Almonar in Northern California. I’m sure it must have been slow going . . .
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #14 –
I get it - finally.   This is a restoration project where cost and practically are not the main issues but are secondary.   The primary purpose is to restore it to good working order.   Whatever limitations it has as a vintage machine... it has.   Got it!    Frank
plan B - 2023 Travato
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #15 –
I'd budget into this a Gear Vendors overdrive for the Turbo 400.
It's probably the cheapest way to get overdrive for your rig.
And if you plan on doing some driving, it will eventually pay for itself in fuel savings and wear ant tear on the engine as well.
As for the engine, there are a lot of options to get more power and I'd look for one that is fuel injected instead of having a carb.
You will likely spend close to $10,000 to do this for long term reliability. If your goal is something for 30 or more years. Which really isn't realistic, but hey, it's your money, spend it how you choose.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #16 –
Quote from: Frank S  - 
I get it - finally.   This is a restoration project where cost and practically are not the main issues but are secondary.   The primary purpose is to restore it to good working order.   Whatever limitations it has as a vintage machine... it has.   Got it!    Frank
You got it. Cost and practically flew out the door about $12,000 ago lol
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Jota  - 
I'd budget into this a Gear Vendors overdrive for the Turbo 400.
It's probably the cheapest way to get overdrive for your rig.
And if you plan on doing some driving, it will eventually pay for itself in fuel savings and wear ant tear on the engine as well.
As for the engine, there are a lot of options to get more power and I'd look for one that is fuel injected instead of having a carb.
You will likely spend close to $10,000 to do this for long term reliability. If your goal is something for 30 or more years. Which really isn't realistic, but hey, it's your money, spend it how you choose.
I will have to check again when I pick it up, but I am pretty sure it has the Gear Vendor overdrive on it...
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #19 –
FYI .... new engine and transmission will not increased the total weightcapacity for a truck.   In fact a new engine and transmission will decrease the capacity is they, the engine and transmission, weigh more.   GM, Ford and all car/truck manufacturers design a total product.  All components are put together for a certain goal.   All ratings are based on a NEW vehicle off the showroom floor.   To increased that capacities you'll need to redesign the whole vehicle i.e. new tires, axles, springs, shocks,drive shaft, transmission, engine, radiator etc. 

Bringing back to life and older LD is a great thing.  I respect the impulse.   But whatever the numbers were when it was new is the best it will ever be.

<smile> of course that is just my opinion.  It worth what ya paid for it .......

glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #20 –
Yes, going back thru my papers and all the overdrive I have on it is a Gear Vendor. This motorhome, for me, is an object of love and I would rather spend my money on it then at a craps table in Vegas or something silly. I really like her and dont mind going slower and enjoying the trip. You can all pass me in the fast lane, that's fine by me. But I will be the one enjoying life in the slow lane, wave as you go by.
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #21 –
Quote from: Teresa  - 
. . . and I would rather spend my money on it then at a craps table in Vegas or something silly. I really like her and dont mind going slower and enjoying the trip. . . . . But I will be the one enjoying life in the slow lane, wave as you go by.
Your return on investment is much better than at the craps table [Rule#1 the house wins]
Going slow is not a problem,  you have already arrived.
You can dust off one of those bumper stickers "Spending the Children's Inheritance".
See you down  the road.
Joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #22 –
Quote from: joel wiley  - 
Your return on investment is much better than at the craps table [Rule#1 the house wins]
Going slow is not a problem,  you have already arrived.
You can dust off one of those bumper stickers "Spending the Children's Inheritance".
See you down  the road.
Joel
I like that very much Joel! I really am enjoying myself having it and dreaming about everything I want to do with it still. It's all a step at a time. I just gave the RV place a list of more stuff to do, including a new adult sized toilet! But thinking about the engine situation and doing more research, I am kinda thinking a 383 stroker and a fuel injection kit for it....... it will take awhile to save the money for it all, but I am kinda leaning towards this combination as a possibility?
1984 Chevy 30 TK Hotel California
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #23 –
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19210008.html

This would probably be my first choice if trying to keep it as simple as possible. Bad thing is that it require premium fuel but the power is pretty awesome.

This would be my second choice if trying to stick to running regular unleaded.

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19355659.html

Either of these make nearly what the newer RV's are making and would bolt right into your RV in place of your current engine.

You can buy these at Summit Racing, Jegs, Scoggin Dickey, etc. Just find the cheapest place.

2000 26.5 MB
Re: new engine-transmission recommendations?
Reply #24 –
Quote from: Teresa  - 
I like that very much Joel! I really am enjoying myself having it and dreaming about everything I want to do with it still. It's all a step at a time. I just gave the RV place a list of more stuff to do, including a new adult sized toilet! But thinking about the engine situation and doing more research, I am kinda thinking a 383 stroker and a fuel injection kit for it....... it will take awhile to save the money for it all, but I am kinda leaning towards this combination as a possibility?

Be careful not to buy an engine that requires more cooling power than the radiator can provide. Many 350 V8 Chevy engines in older LDs have suffered premature deaths due too overheating. The stock cooling system is marginal, it needs to be well maintained.
The internal combustion process is inefficient and a large amount of the energy generated is rejected as waste heat. The more horsepower, the greater the amount of waste heat the cooling system needs to eliminate. Your stock engine produces around 165-HP, a 383 V8, with the right parts, can easily produce twice as much horsepower, a lot more heat for the cooling system to deal with.
Truck engines are designed to be run at full throttle for extended period, car engines are not. The heads and valves need to be designed for the extended periods of high heat. HD truck heads ususally have smaller valves than cars and the valves are made to rotate. If you use a crate engine, make sure it’s for a HD truck and not a car engine.

Our 1983 LD's stock engine had the largest radiator available, along with a large transmission cooler. During the hot summer trips up north, it would run hot going over the Siskiyous, on I-5.
A radiator water-spray cooling system was needed to keep the coolant and transmission temps within an acceptable heat range. 
I have used a similar system on our 2003 LD for several years.

If you stay with a carburetor, have your mechanic install an electric fuel pump and filter in the fuel line, as close to the fuel tank as possible, with a separate switch. You will need it to occasionally to deal with the vapor locking issues that all the G-series Chevy vans had back in the day.

Ex-long-term Chevy G-20 camper van owner
Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze