27 ft, need toad? August 04, 2020, 09:32:29 pm We currently have a 24ft TK. We're thinking of going to a 27ft. Those of you who have 27 footers, do you have a toad? Do you think we'd need one? We do both short, weekend trips and longer trips up to 3 weeks. We do a mix of parking and staying in one area for a while and moving every day or 2.
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #1 – August 04, 2020, 09:44:07 pm I can’t really help you out having a 30’ IB 🚐 myself but I like having a toad. I can set up home anywhere and leave it set up while taking off to explore in the toad. I have been in a lot of fun 😀 places that anything other than a car (nothing larger) would have been a problem🤬😱. 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #2 – August 04, 2020, 10:08:46 pm Like everything RV related, it's a trade-off. We have a Mid-Bath and I've often considered getting a toad. I've avoided it for a few reasons. First, I like the freedom to drive and park the RV without worrying about backing up. I like driving something that fits easily into 2 parking spaces and can fit into 1 with an overhang if I need to. We sometimes end up at campsites where the RV will fit in the site but the toad would be in overflow parking. I pull into the lots of gas stations and restaurants where the toad could be a parking issue. We also like having our 'house' at many of the places where we spend the day. We miss having the kitchen and the bathroom and all of our 'stuff' when it's back at the campsite. I think not towing is mechanically easier. There's no doubt that the RV can handle it, but things wear out faster on the coach and the toad if you tow a lot. It's also just more stuff to double check on every day. We frequently carry a rack full of bikes and occasionally tow a trailer with a small boat or kayaks or something. Adding a toad on those trips would mean I have to come up with a different way to transport everything. A final hesitation comes from the decreasing number of choices for vehicles that are towable 4-down. The list narrows every year and I don't want to feel forced into a daily driver that I wouldn't have purchased otherwise. We already own plenty of cars (teenagers) and don't want another just for RVing. I do sometimes wish I had a toad to (a) explore forest roads or (b) travel into cities. In those cases, we rent a car/jeep or use uber without regard for what it costs. Whatever it is, it's much less than the overall cost of a toad. It does add some hassle - everything is a tradeoff. Rich'03 MB in NC 2 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #3 – August 04, 2020, 10:11:54 pm No help here either. 48K on Orwan and at least 46K towing the 2011 CRV. If you have a tow'd, there's nothing that says you have to take it every trip. If you're in a compact location with everything in walking distance or public conveyance, you might skip it. With the advent of electric bikes, there might be some thought that could be an alternative. If I go to Bodega Bay, I don't need it if I stay in Westside Park. Spud Point Crab Co in walking distance. Doran Beach is a completely different case.joel 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #4 – August 04, 2020, 10:42:14 pm My wife, Wendy, and I have a toad which we love. We use it to carry our kayaks when we're planning to kayak as part of a trip. Or when we'll not be kayaking and want to explore the area we're camping in.One thing to consider is that it is not cheep to outfit the toad for towing and to add a rear camera and monitor to keep an eye on the toad when on the road. You should also add a TPMS to monitor the toad tire pressures in case of toad tire issues.David 2 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #5 – August 05, 2020, 01:25:42 am Quote from: rich - August 04, 2020, 10:08:46 pmWe frequently carry a rack full of bikes and occasionally tow a trailer with a small boat or kayaks or something. Adding a toad on those trips would mean I have to come up with a different way to transportThis is the same reason I don’t have a toad. I have to have my bike with me; most of my trips are centered around mountain biking and I’ve always been able to camp close enough to trailheads where a toad isn’t necessary.
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #6 – August 05, 2020, 08:11:51 am We have always had a toad. For the past several years, we have towed a jeep wrangler and have enjoyed being able to go most anywhere we desired with it. For many years, we also carried road and mountain bikes, too; but we are a little long in the tooth for that adventure today. 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #7 – August 05, 2020, 08:36:27 am For what it’s worth, I did an informal “toad survey” a while back. Length of RV was not really taken in consideration but you may glean some helpful information from this thread.:Class C Towing: an Unscientific Survey
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #8 – August 05, 2020, 09:43:18 am When we bought our LD in 2003, anticipating a lot of extended travel in retirement, which we've done, we hoped to get by without a toad. We bought two folding Brompton bicycles that actually fit in the compartment behind the driver's seat in our RB. And we thought about a light motorcycle on a rear rack.But then on one of our first LD excursions, to Yosemite, we saw a Jeep on display at a Jeep dealer across the street from the grocery store we were at in Oakdale. Impulse struck and we bought it. We've towed it on all but a couple of trips since, almost 130,000 miles. I wouldn't be without it unless I know for sure we're going to camp someplace and not move at all.After all this travel my conclusion is that if I lived in the east I'd tow an economy car of some kind. But in the west I'd tow a Wrangler. Besides the normal practical and sight-seeing excursions the Jeep allows exploration of areas we simply wouldn't go in a car, much less the LD. A Wrangler is also probably among the easiest vehicles to set up for towing and then to connect to your motorhome and drive away.The inability to back up is an occasional nuisance, but not often. You quickly learn to manage your travels to avoid that. As to fitting into campsites that's not been a problem. The Jeep is relatively small and usually fits in somehow. Yes there's somewhat more wear and tear on both the toad and the motorhome. Just fix whatever problems arise, not too many in my experience.Motorcycles and bicycles sound good but in my experience are more hassle than they're worth for practical purposes and are better viewed as recreation. With the Jeep we simply disconnect it (about three minutes). After that we just jump in and go. No helmets, jackets, gloves, no worries about the weather and we can go 30 miles as easily as 3, and bring home a week's worth of groceries if needed.Just as an experiment you might want to travel somewhere not too far from home for a few days to a week, treat it as a far away vacation spot you've never been and want to explore, bring a car driven separately, and see what happens. My guess is you'll explore more and find yourselves jumping in the car for that grocery item you forgot, or to go to dinner or for the myriad errands that pop up but are hard to imagine in advance. 7 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #9 – August 05, 2020, 10:57:35 am I agree with Terry.We have towed an enclosed trailer with motorcycle and bicycles, or the Wrangler on almost every trip we have taken.I'm a lifelong motorcyclist, but as Terry said, the Jeep is easier and it accompanies us more often than the trailer these days. The dog prefers the Wrangler.Don't forget the roughly $3K for stuff to safely flat tow a vehicle.Harold
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #10 – August 05, 2020, 11:48:11 am Quote from: Sandakat Writer - August 04, 2020, 09:32:29 pmWe currently have a 24ft TK. We're thinking of going to a 27ft. Those of you who have 27 footers, do you have a toad? Do you think we'd need one? We do both short, weekend trips and longer trips up to 3 weeks. We do a mix of parking and staying in one area for a while and moving every day or 2.We went a long time without a toad. Four years ago I needed a new car and purchased a 2016 Subaru Forester with a manual transmission. Three years ago it was modified to pull behind our 2007 MidBath. We don't always pull the car. It kind of depends on the trip. My suggestion to you would be to buy the 26.5 or 27 foot RV and live with it a while and see what your needs are. Renting a car at a destination for a few days may be easier on the pocket book. In our case we liked the freedom having a car gave us. This was more true on trips that were further away, or that involved a lot of sight seeing. If I am going somewhere alone (happens often) I generally stay at camp and work on my books and photography. I then have no need of the car. Sometimes the wife only does part of the trip. The tow car gives us the freedom so she can drive the leg out or back then we can tow the car for the other part. You will want to set aside about $4-5k to set up a car. So make sure you need one before you make the jump. 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #11 – August 05, 2020, 12:13:55 pm Not trying to steal this thread but I'm looking at a toad purchase tomorrow. I have a 2006 RK. The toad is a 2012 Subaru Forester. It's already rigged up for towing which is a big selling point. Any folks on here tow a Forester?
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #12 – August 05, 2020, 12:27:39 pm "My suggestion to you would be to buy the 26.5 or 27 foot RV and live with it a while and see what your needs are."---Agreed. Responders to the OP's question have made many excellent points on the "tow or no" question, but the final decisions depend on the travel/camping styles and other personal circumstances and considerations of each owner.I have a 23.5', and have never towed a vehicle for the following reasons:The short rig is pretty maneuverable and can navigate and park in places that might be a "no fit" for a larger rig. Hauling a toad can make access difficult in several situations.I didn't want to deal with the additional stresses placed on all the systems from towing, nor the need to maintain an additional/separate vehicle, nor deal with the expense and maintenance of a tow setup. Hooking up and unhooking is more hassle and inconvenience for solos. (Yes, I know that many do it just fine! )On the other hand, there have been quite a few times over the years when I have wished that I had a "run around" vehicle, simply because it would have been more convenient, easier, and less constraining in where one could go. Depending on the type of trip and the location, I have rented from Enterprise on several occasions and found that workable, if not always the most convenient or inexpensive solution. I definitely acknowledge that I have missed some "goseedo" by not having a toad; I regret this, but the lack of "mobility" was not enough to convince me that towing a vehicle would be the best MO for me.YMMV, as ever. 2 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #13 – August 05, 2020, 02:42:19 pm Another option, not yet mentioned:Travel with an LD friend who is hauling a tow'd.Doesn't work everywhere, but . . . joel 5 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #14 – August 05, 2020, 04:07:11 pm In our case, we were in need of purchasing a second vehicle anyway which has AWD or 4WD since we live in the mountains and get winter snow. Even though we don’t currently own a RV, we decided to kill two birds with one stone and purchase a used car that could be towed, if the desire arises, so we purchased a 2015 Forester with manual transmission and a little under 80K miles on the odometer. It should last us a good 10 years or so as a second vehicle and possible toad.
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #15 – August 05, 2020, 06:26:40 pm Our first eight years and 60,000 miles of LD ownership were without a toad and we missed the ability to explore areas too far away to walk or bike. The 1983 LD lacked the power to pull anything. For off-road trips, we used our 4X4 pickup and camper shell, leaving the LD at home.When the 24' models became available with the E450 chassis and V10, we ordered one of first delivered, That was 121,000 miles ago and we have pulled a Jeep Cherokee most of the time since, it completely changed how we explored new and old areas, we would not be happy without it.Here in the West, nothing is nearby and once you get there, 80% of the roads are not paved. LDs make poor off-highway vehicles and are not suitable for most day touring in the boonies. The Jeep is happy to explored any road in most weather conditions. It is also happy to carry our kayaks and bikes to places where the LD cannot go.Don't leave home without it.Larry 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #16 – August 06, 2020, 12:35:30 am Quote from: Sandakat Writer - August 04, 2020, 09:32:29 pmWe currently have a 24ft TK. We're thinking of going to a 27ft. Those of you who have 27 footers, do you have a toad? Do you think we'd need one? We do both short, weekend trips and longer trips up to 3 weeks. We do a mix of parking and staying in one area for a while and moving every day or 2.When I bought my 1998 26.5 mid-bath about five years ago, I already owned a 2002 Honda CR-V. Previously, I had a Toyota Dolphin and although easy to maneuver, it was a pain to drive it everywhere. The short answer is "yes" I like the flexibility of having a tow car to explore a park, go to a restaurant, etc... However, for me as a single woman it does add an additional layer of uh, "frustration." It's not so much hooking up and un-hooking the car, but you really have to plan ahead to get gas, etc... Knock on wood, but I've yet to be in a jam where I've had to unhook the car.Oddly enough, I'm getting ready to leave on a trip and leaving the tow car at home. I'm going to be mainly boondocking with a small group, and can probably count on one of them for a ride. In the midst of this pandemic, I'm not planning on eating out or sightseeing. My focus is just to "get out and enjoy nature." I've stocked up on food items to keep my grocery visits to a minimum. Personally, towing a car is easy (it just follows behind the RV) but adds an added level of stress for me when I'm traveling. Although I have a rear view camera and a TPMS, I find myself on pretty much constant alert. However, as member Joan succinctly mentions - "Your personal mileage may vary." 3 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #17 – August 06, 2020, 10:03:18 pm Quote from: rprice - August 05, 2020, 12:13:55 pmNot trying to steal this thread but I'm looking at a toad purchase tomorrow. I have a 2006 RK. The toad is a 2012 Subaru Forester. It's already rigged up for towing which is a big selling point. Any folks on here tow a Forester? I tow a Forester but is is a later edition. The one you are looking at is lighter and that would be a good thing. I would go the a good Subie mechanic and have them take a close look at the engine compression. Like VWs, and other flat engines the engines can starve for oil when sitting still at idle. Also have the all wheel drive and trans mission looked at closely. Over all I see a lot of them (that generation Subie Forester) on the road so that is a good sign. Hope I’m not to late answering. John
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #18 – August 07, 2020, 01:40:38 am Quote from: John DaCrema - August 06, 2020, 10:03:18 pmI tow a Forester but is is a later edition. The one you are looking at is lighter and that would be a good thing. I would go the a good Subie mechanic and have them take a close look at the engine compression. Like VWs, and other flat engines the engines can starve for oil when sitting still at idle. Also have the all wheel drive and trans mission looked at closely. Over all I see a lot of them (that generation Subie Forester) on the road so that is a good sign. Hope I’m not to late answering. JohnNo, not too late. I decided to purchase the car. It is in very good condition. The "starving for oil" problem did seem to befall this vehicle. The owner had a new engine put in by the dealer about 50k miles ago. Apparently, this year chugs oil. An "unknown" recall existed on it. The owner took it in to the dealer to complain about disappearing oil levels and they confessed to the problem. New engine offered and he took it. He also had a new transmission installed at an earlier date. So I'm getting 2012 with a relatively new engine and transmission. It's outfitted with a Blue Ox towing setup too. I just have to figure out how to connect the 7 pin to my 4 pin on the back of the LD. Thanks for the advice.Bob 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #19 – August 07, 2020, 06:18:50 am Hi Bob; Congratulations on your 'new to you' Subaru. The proper way to fit your new Subie's 7 pin connector to your LD is to rewire and expand your motorhomes 4 wires. Newer LD's now provide, I believe, a 6 pin adaptor. It should have been the new 'universal' 7 pin. It was introduced at least ten years ago, and provides enhanced usability. Many trucks come with the 7 pin now. The extra pins can provide +12 dc to charge the towed battery, and/or power the auxilliary braking system. Another pin can control a light on the LD dash to let you know if the towed's brakes are being applied. That is also important if the 'break away' switch puts on the brakes when they shouldn't be on. Did the Forester come with a TPMS? RonB 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #20 – August 07, 2020, 11:18:17 am Quote from: rprice - August 07, 2020, 01:40:38 am I just have to figure out how to connect the 7 pin to my 4 pin on the back of the LD. When wiring LDs for towing, I leave the 4-pin plug and add a 7-pin plug.The 4-pin plug can come in handy when towing rental trailers and other towables with 4-pin plugs.If only using a 7-pin plug, adaptors are readily availableLarry
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #21 – August 07, 2020, 12:22:09 pm What type plug is the mothership installing these days?
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #22 – August 07, 2020, 01:48:51 pm Looks like I'll have to get the 7 pin plug installed. The previous owner of the LD must not have had a brake controller as he only had a 4 pin - 4 pin cable. I need the wire for activating the brake controller that came with the Subaru. Also, it would be nice to charge the battery. The cable provided by the seller is a 7 pin - 6 pin.ThanksBob
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #23 – August 07, 2020, 01:55:44 pm Hi Greg. The factory website has been updated to reflect the new chassis: " Tow package with 2” receiver hitch and 6 pole trailer plug. S S S S S S", (Standard on all models.) I also noted that the alternator is listed at 210 Amps. That is almost 3 kilowatts !! RonB 1 Likes
Re: 27 ft, need toad? Reply #24 – August 07, 2020, 02:17:05 pm Quote from: HiLola - August 07, 2020, 12:22:09 pmWhat type plug is the mothership installing these days?I bet the Mothership could tell you.Larry
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