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Topic: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing (Read 3855 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #50 –
Quote from: rabbitdiesel1  - 
I run 55 to 60 mph, everything runs smooth at those speeds, I have 69,000 miles on my 2017 chassis, no warranty, Could I just keep driving it as is and repair later at 100,000 miles or is that foolish?

Toss the dice and see what happens.
Without an inspection by a competent mechanic, that question cannot be answered.
You may be hearing noises from another source.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #51 –
I'm having it looked at at the end of the month. I get some vibration making me think the driveshaft may be out of balance.
I had so many problems with my motorhome it took a year and a half to get everything fixed. I put on 35,000 plus miles a yr. Because I drive under 65 mph I totally forgot about the hum until I saw Glens post on this forum, by then I was over the 60,000 mile warranty. I called Ford when my odometer read 60,300 and basically was told to bad.  I never really thought it could be the rear end. I had a 1991 Ford E350 that had the rear axle fail at 90,000. I should of took it in right away, stupidity  is my defense.
 

  Lynn
2017 Mid Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #52 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
I'm the original owner of this message thread.  Here's the update.  The Ford truck service place I use had diagnosed the hum as coming from somewhere in the rear axle area.  This was back in September just before we were going on a whirlwind wandering.  They were really swamped at the time and could not proceed with a resolution.  Their opinion was that since the hum had been occurring for a while, I would probably be OK and to come back after the trip.  After traveling 7,100 miles and rarely going over 65mph, I returned the RV to the Ford truck service place for an oil change, resume looking for the cause of the hum, and to look into a random ticking sound coming form the engine that had started at the beginning of the trip.  This was on December 9.  Last week, they determined the hum was coming form the rear axle and ordered a rear axle assembly kit which will be installed under warranty.  They said it would take a few weeks before the kit would arrive.  The problem is that we are going out on another whirlwind tour next week.  So, I will be going back to the service place when we return mid-March. 


This was 2 month ago for Glenn.  Any late March update ??

I have a similar situation.  The loud humming noise from the rear differential at 65-70 mph. 

Local Ford dealer diagnosed the following problem ... It has a bad pinion bearing.  Mechanic said if it were his truck, he would drive it until it got worse ... OR ... repair before the 5 year/ 60,000 warranty expired. 

Currently at just under 3 years / 15,000, so I will have mine fixed when it is convenient for me.  This local Ford dealer did not have lift clearance to work on a motor home.  The ones they recommended are a PITA to travel to.

I was also told that the job would take a few days because they cannot determine which bearing to replace until they open the rear differential and inspect.

Just though I would share ...

2006 RB
2017 MB
LD alumni
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #53 –
Quote from: CactusCrew  - 

This was 2 month ago for Glenn.  Any late March update ??

I have a similar situation.  The loud humming noise from the rear differential at 65-70 mph. 

Local Ford dealer diagnosed the following problem ... It has a bad pinion bearing.  Mechanic said if it were his truck, he would drive it until it got worse ... OR ... repair before the 5 year/ 60,000 warranty expired. 

Currently at just under 3 years / 15,000, so I will have mine fixed when it is convenient for me.  This local Ford dealer did not have lift clearance to work on a motor home.  The ones they recommended are a PITA to travel to.

I was also told that the job would take a few days because they cannot determine which bearing to replace until they open the rear differential and inspect.

Just though I would share ...



To CactusCrew,

I was planning on having the repair done when we returned from our Florida wandering trip last week.  But now with the virus crisis, I will have to wait. 
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #54 –
It is just too coincidental that  Lynn (Rabbitdiesel1),  CactusCrew, and Glen Lambert all have rear end noise with 2017 MidBaths.  I don't recall anyone else having problems with their differentials at this early stage of mileage. OK,  Larry Wade, at high load and higher mileage.  Still, what dates were these rigs finished at the mothership, and could they all have been made with a bad batch of parts from Ford?  Does Ford corporate know about this, and I would think that other E450 chassis besides Lazy Dazes would have similar issues.     RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #55 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
To CactusCrew,

I was planning on having the repair done when we returned from our Florida wandering trip last week.  But now with the virus crisis, I will have to wait. 
And then again, maybe not.   Reported in the news last night that transportation was considered 'essential' so area garages are open.   They are seeing a great lack of customers  so you might have a better change of finding a place that otherwise. 
Just a thought.
Joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #56 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
It is just too coincidental that  Lynn (Rabbitdiesel1),  CactusCrew, and Glen Lambert all have rear end noise with 2017 MidBaths.  I don't recall anyone else having problems with their differentials at this early stage of mileage. OK,  Larry Wade, at high load and higher mileage.  Still, what dates were these rigs finished at the mothership, and could they all have been made with a bad batch of parts from Ford?  Does Ford corporate know about this, and I would think that other E450 chassis besides Lazy Dazes would have similar issues.    RonB

I'm sure Ford would know, not that they would do anything about it. It's quite possible they got a bad batch of differential parts, as we did. It happens regularly in the automotive world, sometimes resulting in recalls.

Our 2003's axle didn't wear out, in fact the bearing and gears were all in great condition except for the pinion bearing's shaft being undersize, The undersize shaft allowed the pinion bearing's inner race to break loose and spin on the pinion gear shaft when it is supposed to be a very tight press fit.
Google Image Result for https://www.awdwiki.com/images/differential.jpg

Examining the condition of the original gears and bearings and finding them in great condition, at 100,000 miles, our LD's axle should have lasted the life of the vehicle if the pinion gear shaft had not been defective.
Repairing it was a big project, one I would not attempt again without a lif and a strong helper.

If mine and the rig were out of warranty, Ford would be the last place I would take it for a rebuild, instead, I would find a truck driveline shop that specializes in axle repairs. Rebuilding differential is as much an art as a science since it requires judgement calls of acceptable gear patterns, experience counts for a lot .

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #57 –
Larry,
My dad used to rebuild his own differentials and manual transmissions.  He would look at the wear marks on the gear faces and use a dial indicator and shim the differential so he had the least lash, but no whine.  His differentials were really nice and quiet when he was finished and he never had to rebuild one twice. Differential repair was more art than science.

It was a different day when a guy could grind his own valves, swap engines in the garage, hone cylinders and re-ring pistons, etc.  Times have changed.  Dad realized this when he tried to overhaul an automatic transmission on the bench in the shop, and another time when he disassembled a Bosch fuel injection pump from a Mercedes. Both had to be completed by a pro.

The first time I had to pay a mechanic to do a job, Dad looked at me quietly like I had failed as a son...

Harold

2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #58 –
Quote from: Blueox25  - 
My dad used to rebuild his own differentials and manual transmissions.  He would look at the wear marks on the gear faces and use a dial indicator and shim the differential so he had the least lash, but no whine.  His differentials were really nice and quiet when he was finished and he never had to rebuild one twice. Differential repair was more art than science.

It was a different day when a guy could grind his own valves, swap engines in the garage, hone cylinders and re-ring pistons, etc.  Times have changed.  Dad realized this when he tried to overhaul an automatic transmission on the bench in the shop, and another time when he disassembled a Bosch fuel injection pump from a Mercedes. Both had to be completed by a pro.

Axles take a lot of time to set up and usually need to disassemble many times until a 'good' pattern is produced, it took several days and about 15 tries before getting the LD's axle pattern and backlash correct. It also takes shop equipment most home mechanics do not own .
Final pattern | After trying many shim adjustments, the fina… | Flickr
When starting building Jeep axles, about 15 years ago, I started accumulating the specialized tools needed.  The LD's axle was much larger and a couple of additional tools were needed.
Tools | Specialized tools used to rebuild differential. | lw5315us | Flickr
As for automatic transmissions, your father figured it out quickly that it is something that should be left to a shop properly equipped and a expect who knows how to reassemble the hundreds of small parts in the right order. My couple of attempts to rebuild an automatic, while in college, were spectacular failures.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #59 –
I vividly remember working with Dad and removing the cover and the valve body.  We immediately knew we were in over our heads.
He charged into the fuel injection pump by himself.  Actually, Bosch mechanical fuel injection pumps are built by elves and magicians, not mortal mechanics.
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #60 –
I took my e-350 to ford last week and had the rear differential  oil changed, they said it looked good with no shavings or debris. They said I had a broken exhaust pipe bracket which they replaced. The mechanic drove it and said he could not hear any noise. I drove it home and the road is so rough I couldn't really tell but believe the hum is still there. I have 70,000 miles and I'm out of warranty. I don't know weather to just keep driving it or look for a drive train shop, don't know if there's one in my area and really don't know what to look under to find one. You Lazy Daze owners have been kind, I live in Iowa, your advise is welcome. I don't like the idea of spending 2000$ plus but feel it needs to be repaired.

  A friend of LD owners
2017 Mid Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #61 –
Quote from: rabbitdiesel1  - 
I took my e-350 to ford last week and had the rear differential  oil changed, they said it looked good with no shavings or debris. They said I had a broken exhaust pipe bracket which they replaced. The mechanic drove it and said he could not hear any noise. I drove it home and the road is so rough I couldn't really tell but believe the hum is still there. I have 70,000 miles and I'm out of warranty. I don't know whether to just keep driving it or look for a drive train shop,

Rear-axle hums do not necessarily mean the axle is defective or going to fail.
Assuming the mechanic actually inspected the gears and found nothing indicating that either the gears or bearing were self-destructing, it's very possible that the gears were never set up right for quiet operation. in the first place.
The ring and pinion gears are a matched set, being machined to mate with each other perfectly in one position, a slight bit off may produce noise or humming but may not impact the long term durability of the axle.
As long as the noise stay at a consistent level and is not getting louder, I would drive it and keep my eyes open for a truck axle and/or driveline shop along the way.
A couple of my past used vehicles came with noisy axles that lasted over 100,000 miles and were never replaced, back before I learned how to build them.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #62 –
Thanks Larry, you make good sense. At 55 to 60 mph it's as smooth as silk. Over 65 it hums plus some vibration.
2017 Mid Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #63 –
Quote from: rabbitdiesel1  - 
At 55 to 60 mph it's as smooth as silk. Over 65 it hums plus some vibration.

Vibrations are not a common symptom of a bad axle, more likely from a damaged or misaligned u-joint, a bad driveshaft carrier bearing or some other source, such as an out of balance wheel assembly.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #64 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
It is just too coincidental that  Lynn (Rabbitdiesel1),  CactusCrew, and Glen Lambert all have rear end noise with 2017 MidBaths.  I don't recall anyone else having problems with their differentials at this early stage of mileage. OK,  Larry Wade, at high load and higher mileage. Still, what dates were these rigs finished at the mothership, and could they all have been made with a bad batch of parts from Ford?  Does Ford corporate know about this, and I would think that other E450 chassis besides Lazy Dazes would have similar issues.     RonB

FORD info:
build date ...  5 Aug 2016
release date ... 8 Aug 2016

Warranty start date:
13 April 2017 ... ( approx Lazy Daze build Sept 2016 - April 2017 )

I am glad it occurs at  a speed that I hardly use.  I will have it repaired when convenient for me, and before the warranty expires. 

If Ford knows about it, they usually do not share that info until required by law.  Lazy Daze is probably such a small sample of the number of E450s produced that it would be a blip in manufacturing.

2006 RB
2017 MB
LD alumni
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #65 –
Build date on my E-350 is Sept. 2017.
2017 Mid Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #66 –
Quote from: CactusCrew  - 
FORD info:
build date ...  5 Aug 2016
release date ... 8 Aug 2016

Warranty start date:
13 April 2017 ... ( approx Lazy Daze build Sept 2016 - April 2017 )

I am glad it occurs at  a speed that I hardly use.  I will have it repaired when convenient for me, and before the warranty expires. 

If Ford knows about it, they usually do not share that info until required by law.  Lazy Daze is probably such a small sample of the number of E450s produced that it would be a blip in manufacturing.



My 2017 MB was manufactured in Jan 2017, Lazy Daze completed it in Sep 2017, and I picked it up Oct 2017.  I don't know if I mentioned it before, I began noticing the hum when I got hearing aids in May of last year.  That hum may have been occurring since the first day.  I currently have 31,000 miles.
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #67 –
No hum in our 2017 mid bath.  We picked it up the end of March 2017.  It did have click - click noise.  Our mechanic replaced the timing pulleys and belt.  This took care of the noise.  I saved the replaced belt for later emergencies as it was in good condition.
Ross Taylor
2017 MB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #68 –
Glen, did you ever get the rear axle noise fixed on your Ford?
2017 Mid Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #69 –
It can be difficult to find an online source of TSBs for any vehicle; this site lists (recalls) and TSBs and "complaints". This link is specific to TSBs for the 2017 Ford E-450:

2017 Ford E-450 TSBs | CarComplaints.com
2003 TK has a new home
 
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #71 –
Thanks, Glenn.
2017 Mid Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #72 –
Our rear axle hums with 150k on the ticker...in my experience a humming Dana 70 or 80 isn’t something I plan to lose sleep over.
2000 RB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #73 –
Quote from: Cor2man  - 
Our rear axle hums with 150k on the ticker...in my experience a humming Dana 70 or 80 isn’t something I plan to lose sleep over.
What is "a humming Dana 70 or 80"?

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Reply #74 –
Dana Spicer rear axle differential; I believe that the E-450's differential is a 70?

2003 TK has a new home