Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #26 – May 05, 2020, 10:40:02 pm "It wasn't the way I wanted to purchase but circumstances made things a bit difficult.Anyways, It's a good and relatively low mileage LD and my intentions were always to learn how to fix and maintain every part of it, but I just didn't expect to jump into the deep end right away.sorry I didn't see your question in the last comment...wasn't avoiding it."Thanks for the clarification and explanation Howard. You sure did have a lot of things working against you. Too bad it was so far away from your location so you could really check it out yourself. Hope this all ends well for you! Good luck.Steve K. 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts **UPDATE** Reply #27 – May 17, 2020, 04:12:12 pm So, I've been pulling things apart and honing my skills. Learning where the wood is wet/rotten and, more importantly, how this beast is put (or glued I should say) together. I have some good news and some bad news.......I think. My confidence is building and I've resigned to going slowly, veeerrry slowly.If you want to see the running image/video album go here: iCloud Photo SharingCouple photos of note. It looks like the water/rot going vertically up the passenger side rear and side wall is limited mostly to the wood panelling that's used (like cartilage in a joint) to fill in the space between the outer skin and the hard wood frame. There's one small plank of wood that "caps" the end of the side wall facing the rear that was completely rotted out and I was able to remove it last night. Looks relatively easy to replace except for learning how to get the wood paneling/filler in place above it.Thanks for all the help so far from this forum. Don't know how I would do this without ya.
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts **UPDATE** Reply #28 – May 17, 2020, 06:16:46 pm Quote from: downgrader - May 17, 2020, 04:12:12 pmMy confidence is building and I've resigned to going slowly, veeerrry slowly.If you want to see the running image/video album go here: iCloud Photo SharingGo slow and take your time, travel is going to be limited for a while.Now that you have gone deeper, do you think the leakage was primarily around the passenger side end cap, eliminating the rear window, or is it still a suspect? Either way, resealing the window is needed.It looks like the driver's side is in good shape and suffered little from the loose end cap.In the photos, I see you using a vibratory tool with a shape blade, nothing cuts through cured polyurethane like it.Feel free to ask for advice, Cor2man has been where you are, his rig had interior damage and appears to have suffered more rot. I hope the rot didn't reach your LD's interior paneling.Larry
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #29 – May 18, 2020, 03:41:06 pm Yeah they use a pretty darn thin luan bonded to the aluminum paneling, I purchased some 1/8 inch Luan at Home Depot that was still slightly too thick but I went ahead and used it, didn’t seem to hurt. Used 3m spray adhesive to bond the Luan, put it all together as I reattached the skin to the camper. If you can get the repair done without removing the skin certainly try to. 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #30 – May 18, 2020, 03:45:14 pm Quote from: Larry W - May 17, 2020, 06:16:46 pmNow that you have gone deeper, do you think the leakage was primarily around the passenger side end cap, eliminating the rear window, or is it still a suspect? Either way, resealing the window is needed.It looks like the driver's side is in good shape and suffered little from the loose end cap.In the photos, I see you using a vibratory tool with a shape blade, nothing cuts through cured polyurethane like it.I hope the rot didn't reach your LD's interior paneling.LarryThanks Larry.I'm still not 100% sure where it's coming from, if not multiple places. I'm going to endoscope the passenger side rear window through the end cap opening today and I'll let you know what i find. Is the black coloration at the bottom of the driver's side end cap an indication of something abnormal? I also noticed the black stuff where the passenger side top rear end cap meets the roof cap. I see an opening in the (small slit) in the side wall at the top which could be where water is entering but it seemed to be pretty well sealed off up there where those to caps meet.Yes! I'm using a multi-tool which has been awesome and just got some new bosch blades for it.I'll be looking for interior panel rot this afternoon too.Howard
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #31 – May 18, 2020, 03:46:57 pm Quote from: Cor2man - May 18, 2020, 03:41:06 pmYeah they use a pretty darn thin luan bonded to the aluminum paneling, I purchased some 1/8 inch Luan at Home Depot that was still slightly too thick but I went ahead and used it, didn’t seem to hurt. Used 3m spray adhesive to bond the Luan, put it all together as I reattached the skin to the camper. If you can get the repair done without removing the skin certainly try to.awesome thanks for that info as I was searching for the stuff. any particular 3m adhesive you recommend?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #32 – May 18, 2020, 08:36:38 pm Hi Howard; I've used 3M #77 as a spray, contact adhesive. Spray both sides, let it dry, only one chance to get the placement right. I've cheated and assembled pieces wet, clamped and let dry. Seems to work well also, but I didn't try to move the pieces until after a few days. The solvent used is very volatile (no open flames). It should dry quickly either way. Used to be Toluene, IIRC. Might have changed because of 'huffers'. RonB 1 Likes
Thoughts on one or both windows? Reply #33 – May 22, 2020, 01:54:47 pm Based on what I'm seeing, it looks like the water leak is coming from, at the very least, the passenger rear window and it doesn't go higher than about 6" above the bottom of the window. I wonder if it's also coming from the same height at the rear window as the rear end cap wood had water damage too, or could it just be the spread of the water from the passenger rear window leak? Also looks like the previous owner tried to just apply some sealant along the rotted/wet paneling and call it a day.What do you guys think?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #34 – May 22, 2020, 01:57:11 pm Quote from: RonB - May 18, 2020, 08:36:38 pmHi Howard; I've used 3M #77 as a spray, contact adhesive. Spray both sides, let it dry, only one chance to get the placement right. I've cheated and assembled pieces wet, clamped and let dry. Seems to work well also, but I didn't try to move the pieces until after a few days. The solvent used is very volatile (no open flames). It should dry quickly either way. Used to be Toluene, IIRC. Might have changed because of 'huffers'. RonBDid you attempt to remove the entire panel piece or just remove the easily accessible panel and cut a new replacement piece to size?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #35 – May 23, 2020, 03:49:45 am Hi Howard. No I was just replacing a strip about 1 1/2" wide on just a part of one panel, so I stuck a piece into the 'slot'. Your leak seems to be coming from where the joint next to the rear window is, in the corner molding. LD now attaches a 1" wide strip of aluminum, bent around the corner, on both sides. That seals that entry point well. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #36 – May 23, 2020, 04:18:45 pm Quote from: RonB - May 23, 2020, 03:49:45 amHi Howard. No I was just replacing a strip about 1 1/2" wide on just a part of one panel, so I stuck a piece into the 'slot'. Your leak seems to be coming from where the joint next to the rear window is, in the corner molding. LD now attaches a 1" wide strip of aluminum, bent around the corner, on both sides. That seals that entry point well. RonBAhh okay. Good to know as I was wondering how one might replace the whole panel without removing the skin. Can you talk a bit about how you prepped the inside surface? Did you sand it and remove all residual glue w/ Acetone or something?Also, I think mine has the metal strips you're talking about...see pic
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #37 – May 23, 2020, 05:46:12 pm Hi Howard. Metal strips to hold down the joint between corner moulding pieces didn't appear until about 2005 or so. The screw head shouldn't be rusty. I use all stainless. It doesn't look like your strip was sealed, and I suspect it was letting in water. Possibly the source of your rot problem. If you remove that strip for cleaning, your corner piece should be completely loose. Check that the strip on the otherside is on and sealed right too. I use acetone, sparingly and quickly. It evaporates fast. It will soften and wipe away your paint and decals (pinstripes) faster than you think. It takes wax off instantly. Alcohol not diluted with water (rubbing alcihol) is best. Use as little acetone as you can. It also soaks into your skin fast, not good for you either. The acetone carefully applied won't hurt the ABS from inside very fast, and will remove the (looks like contact cement to me) inside the aluminum/ thin plywood panels. Looks like you are making progress, keep up the good work. All of us here benefit from your pictures. We of course are hoping we don't have these issues, but we all might if we keep our rigs long enough. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #38 – May 23, 2020, 06:03:27 pm The optional metal strip covering the gap doesn't seal the gap, the sealant can still break loose beneath it.Evidently, there is a lot of stress concentrated at the gap, I have found the end cap gaps on many LDs to have failed, torn-up sealant.Covering the gap makes it look better.Even covering the gap with Eternabond Tape is subject to long term failure, there is a lot of twisting applied to the area when driving on poor roads. It is the only place where I have been Eternabond repeatedly fail and pull away, after several years.Later models seem to have less issues with the end caps but this may be a matter of time, the Mothership has tried a variety of ways to adhere the end caps and to seal the gap, with varying degrees of success.Presently, the end caps are the weakest point in keeping an LD waterproof. Keep an eye on them.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #39 – June 16, 2020, 03:59:23 pm Quote from: RonB - May 23, 2020, 03:49:45 amHi Howard. No I was just replacing a strip about 1 1/2" wide on just a part of one panel, so I stuck a piece into the 'slot'. Your leak seems to be coming from where the joint next to the rear window is, in the corner molding. LD now attaches a 1" wide strip of aluminum, bent around the corner, on both sides. That seals that entry point well. RonBI think you were spot on with this. Seems the leak was coming only from where that metal strip was improperly sealed. The water moved down the side wood and to the passenger side section of the wood beam behind the bottom bumper. A little spread into the flooring too.
Getting nervous now Reply #40 – June 16, 2020, 04:20:03 pm Well I've removed most of the bed up against the passenger side rear/side wall and now sh*t's getting real, haha. I realize I have to put everything back together and it's making me very nervous. How am I supposed to get the wide (15/16") crown staples installed against the new wood that is on the interior of the rear wall? Should I just remove the outside rear wall?In removing the interior wood paneling I think I've decided just to cut down to the left of the middle and then reinstall with some of that rubber molding so I don't have to remove the entire panel and the other bed (there's no rot on that other side).Anyone know where to get the white cotton like insulation or is there a better kind to refill with?
Re: Getting nervous now Reply #41 – June 16, 2020, 04:50:49 pm Quote from: downgrader - June 16, 2020, 04:20:03 pmWell I've removed most of the bed up against the passenger side rear/sHow am I supposed to get the wide (15/16") crown staples installed against the new wood that is on the interior of the rear wall? Should I just remove the outside rear wall?Anyone know where to get the white cotton like insulation or is there a better kind to refill with?Can't the staples be replaced with long screws? Not sure exactly where they need to be installed. Do whatever you can to prevent disassembly of the rear wall, it will add hours of work to the project.The insulation can be replaced with fiberglass cut from a roll of insulation, R11 is usually the smallest roll available.Sheet styrofoam can also cut to fit, it's what the later models use, instead of fiberglass.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Getting nervous now Reply #42 – June 17, 2020, 01:52:42 am Quote from: Larry W - June 16, 2020, 04:50:49 pmCan't the staples be replaced with long screws? Not sure exactly where they need to be installed. LarryMost of these heavy gauge wide crown staples were holding wood beams together at joints. I remember you saying that most everything is glued so perhaps these were there just to hold the beams in place while the glue dried? If that's the case then I can just use a more standard size staple gun to hold the new wood in place.Side note: what would you recommend to fill in holes in beams where screws have been removed/torn out? I'll likely be screwing back into some of these spots. Should I just use regular spackle?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #43 – June 17, 2020, 07:25:06 am Quote from: downgrader - June 17, 2020, 01:52:42 amSide note: what would you recommend to fill in holes in beams where screws have been removed/torn out? I'll likely be screwing back into some of these spots. Should I just use regular spackle?For me personally, definitely not spackle. The "old timers" would fix a small screw hole with glue and a wooden match stick (ie, put wood glue in the hole and on the match stick and hammer it into the hole; then break off the stick even with the surrounding wood). If the damage is bad enough, I would drill the hole out and glue in a dowel. If done correctly, which really isn't too hard to do, the fix will be "as good as" the original wood (almost ). I've used this fix many, many times and it works. Of course, this fix is for those places where you are returning the screw to it's original position. If this is just a cosmetic repair (which I think is not the case for you), this is not what you want; spackle might work if the hole isn't too large. Something like Elmer's Wood Filler might be better; it can be sanded and will probably stay in better than spackle (I'm assuming you are filling holes is wood, of course).Ken 1 Likes
Re: Getting nervous now Reply #44 – June 17, 2020, 12:15:08 pm Quote from: downgrader - June 17, 2020, 01:52:42 amMost of these heavy gauge wide crown staples were holding wood beams together at joints. Side note: what would you recommend to fill in holes in beams where screws have been removed/torn out? I'll likely be screwing back into some of these spots. Should I just use regular spackle?I would still use long screws to make up for the loss of the long staples, the heads of the screws can be painted so they barely show. I use either wood putty or a small amount of body filler to fill holes. Next, lighty sand smooth and then paint.Matching interior touch up paint , in hundreds of colors, can be found at major craft stores, such a Micheals, Take a piece of the old paneling, one that still has an intact vinyl covering, and use it as a sample for matching. The paint comes in small,, 1-2oz bottle, is inexpensive and has been used on many LD to patch and disguise screw holes and other small damage.I keep a bottle in the LD to repair any nicks or other damage to the paneling. Larry 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #45 – June 17, 2020, 12:35:14 pm Hi Howard; Spackle is a vinyl paste, good for drywall repairs, but will just rip out with screws. Not water water proof either. The metal staples LD used were to hold the pieces of wood in alignment while the glue dried. Also slow drying glue would allow the whole assembly to be done, then let dry (overnight perhaps) into a more rigid framework. If the glue at a joint cracked later from a rough road or something, the staples would keep it together. I've used plastic resin glue for many things. Dry powder (keep the cover on when using to keep the powder dry) small amounts can be mixed. much less water than you think, do small amounts, stir thourouly. It has a very long open time, dries slowly, hours to a day. Very !! waterproof, bug proof and strong. The one pound amount would be good for you. Dap 00203 Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue, 1-Pound - Wood Glue Cabinet - Amazon.com Water clean up is a positive. For filling holes you won't need again, I use Bondo body (car) filler. I keep it in the refrigerator to preserve its life and slow down the reaction. Use 'popsicle' sticks on a polyethylene surface. (old butter container lids). Don't mix much, it sets up in a few minutes. Keep Acetone handy for clean-up. Apply. After it gel's and is a little firm, you can shave off excess. Just a few minute window, 2-3 minutes. When it 'goes off' large amounts can get warm. After 30 minutes it will be rock hard, if you mixed the catalyst in the right proportion. You might want to practice with this before you use it. It shrinks a little so you might wait to sand it flush until after the gel phase. I've had a lot of practice, so it seems easy and inexpensive. Very permanent, waterproof, easy to sand, etc. It doesn't take screw threads as well as I like, but you might find it to be ok. Otherwise Elmers wood putty, but you get to wait a day, and it isn't that waterproof. For holes you want to use again; tooth pick, match stick, or sawdust with a Titebond type of glue. Another thing i've used is Liquid Nails out of a tube. It fills gaps better and retains a little bit of softness, so not as rigid a structure. In addition to screws a good assist. I know this was too long, good luck. RonB 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #46 – June 25, 2020, 04:26:12 pm Things are coming along. Removed most of the entire rear wall wood and panel. The center beam below the floor line that runs between the outer and inner wall, was black and rotted. Fortunately it hadn't rotted through to the other side of the beam.Next step is to do some more sanding of the side beam and floor wood that has some minor rot and corrosion along the edges of the aluminum sheet under the floor, outside the RV. 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #47 – June 26, 2020, 01:10:54 am I'm cheering you on Howard! I look forward to seeing that gap filled in.Reminds me of a dry rot project in our house. The shower had leaked under the pan and migrated past the wall to the adjoining dining room's sub floor. Never noticed the issue till the dining room carpet was replaced with wood flooring. By the time all the rotten wood was removed we could see straight down into the crawl space. Your project has a lot more intricacies. 1 Likes
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #48 – July 03, 2020, 03:14:01 pm Quote from: 73gitane - June 26, 2020, 01:10:54 amI'm cheering you on Howard! I look forward to seeing that gap filled in.thanks! taking all the well wishes I can get
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts Reply #49 – July 03, 2020, 03:18:06 pm Almost done removing rotted wood (actually much of it looks like the rot had only eaten the glue). It encroached on the side panel as well but fortunately there was no indication of leaks from the window sills/frames into the wall as the wood was clean in those areas. Looks like this was completely a results of a leak from the metal strip that covers the area where the two end caps meet. Wonder how long ago it started?Question: How did LD get the wood utility panel that's glued directly to the interior aluminum skin to be so flush? I have some 1/8" utility panel and it's flexible but seems like it would be hard to glue as closely to the skin as the original.
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