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Topic: Removing Bumper Bolts (Read 1454 times) previous topic - next topic
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Removing Bumper Bolts
I'm finally tackling the rotted wood behind my bumper (which might be coming from leaks down the rear wall  :o ) and I'm looking for advice on the best way to remove the bolts.  They're painted over on the exterior bumper side so I'm guessing I have to remove that paint somehow.  Do I just chisel or scrape it away?  Acetone maybe?  Angle grinder perhaps?

**UPDATE**

Well, I removed the lower rear driver side end cap today and here's what I found.

Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #1 –
Wow Howard, really awkward to view your photos. Maybe you could attach them some other way?      You could use an exacto knife just to trace around the head. Likely you don't need to do anything on the outside though. The paint should break around the head as it is removed.   Just remove the nut and washer from the inside part of the screw, and drive it out with a hammer. If you want to preserve the screw, you might want to protect the threads. Me, I would replace the screws with stainless new ones. You could try painting the heads with touch-up. I would leave them natural.    I'm interested to see how bad the wood rot is. How far it extends up into the back wall.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #2 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Wow Howard, really awkward to view your photos. Maybe you...

How are they showing up for you as they look fine to view on my end?  I think, I hope, that it's just bad on the sides as the end caps were not sealed properly when I bought it (something else I'm doing). 

I tried to hammer them out last night (didn't spend more than a few minutes trying though) and thought I might need to do some additional prep to remove; I'll try again today and spend more time on it.

I'm gonna remove the end caps today and I'll put up some pictures.
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #3 –
If the 1/4" nuts are too rusted to unbolt, cutting the nuts with a small angle grinder, with a metal cutting disc, would be my choice. After the nuts are cut off, the remains of the carriage bolts then can be driven out from the backside.
The bumper can remain bolted to the frame, it doesn't need to be removed to repair the damage.

After the bolts are removed, the rotted wood can be removed, it may be necessary to use a hacksaw blade to cut any remaining staples. I use a vibratory tool, with a wood cutting blade, to cut the rot damaged bottom board into smaller pieces, easing the removal process. If only one side is rotted, a partial replacement of the board is possible.

Mid-Baths often have leaking rear windows, the three pieces of glass can loosen and leak, and the sealant around the exterior of the window frame shrinks and also can leak. Make sure to reseal around the frame and that water does not enter between the glass and rubber molding, using a hose to check the window seals.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #4 –
Quote from: downgrader  - 
How are they showing up for you as they look fine to view on my end?


They don't show up at all for me. I have to click on them to download them. I notice they are tiff's, I wonder if that's the reason.

I've tried both Firefox and Chrome. Firefox shows white boxes the apparent size of the pictures. Chrome doesn't show anything.
2001 MB
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #5 –
Quote from: henness  - 

They don't show up at all for me. I have to click on them to download them. I notice they are tiff's, I wonder if that's the reason.

I've tried both Firefox and Chrome. Firefox shows white boxes the apparent size of the pictures. Chrome doesn't show anything.

yes...probably the file type.  how do they look now?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #7 –
Yess, much better now. I'm using Chrome.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
If the 1/4" nuts are too rusted to unbolt, cutting the nuts with a small angle grinder, with a metal cutting disc, would be my choice. After the nuts are cut off, the remains of the carriage bolts then can be driven out from the backside.
The bumper can remain bolted to the frame, it doesn't need to be removed to repair the damage.

After the bolts are removed, the rotted wood can be removed, it may be necessary to use a hacksaw blade to cut any remaining staples. I use a vibratory tool, with a wood cutting blade, to cut the rot damaged bottom board into smaller pieces, easing the removal process. If only one side is rotted, a partial replacement of the board is possible.

Mid-Baths often have leaking rear windows, the three pieces of glass can loosen and leak, and the sealant around the exterior of the window frame shrinks and also can leak. Make sure to reseal around the frame and that water does not enter between the glass and rubber molding, using a hose to check the window seals.

Larry


I was able to get the nuts removed pretty easily with my impact wrench and a deep well bit, the bolts however are proving to be quite a challenge.  Are you saying that I don't need to remove them or the bumper?  Seems like removing the bolts/bumper would make cleaning out the rot and positioning the new piece of wood much easier no?

Here are a few more of the wood rot after picking at it for about 5 minutes.  I'm using a multitool with oscillating blade to cut stuff up.

After looking at it a little longer, I think I get what you're saying.  The bumper can stay bolted to the tow hitch/frame of the undercarriage but remove the carriage bolts driven through the rotted wood.  Did I get that right?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #9 –
Quote from: downgrader  - 
After looking at it a little longer, I think I get what you're saying.  The bumper can stay bolted to the tow hitch/frame of the undercarriage but remove the carriage bolts driven through the rotted wood.  Did I get that right?

That's correct. The carriage bolts need to be removed first.
Good chance they will be badly rusted and in need of replacement.
When the rear wall is intact, the bumper's 90-degree flange and the carriage bolts add a lot of strength to the bumper, bolts in good condition are an asset.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #10 –
Thank you guys for your help...I was able to start getting bolts out.  My fear is always that I’ll try things that wind up causing more damage that needs to be repaired. 

One interesting note, the wood beam was much softer and rotten on the ends than in the middle so I suspect that means the leaks weren’t coming from the window/middle but down the end caps...don’t you?
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #11 –
Hi Howard. I think your aprehension about making things worse is universal for all of us.  I remember my wifes reponse to me taking a router to a brand new multi $$$ dining room table just minutes after getting it home.... Still have it after 40 years.
    Yes, I think the leaks on my friends 2001, were at the joint in the end caps.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #12 –
[quote author=downgrader date=1588197112 link=msg=215141
One interesting note, the wood beam was much softer and rotten on the ends than in the middle so I suspect that means the leaks weren’t coming from the window/middle but down the end caps...don’t you?
[/quote]

End cap leaks is the most likely source of water leaking, it's hard to know without opening up the rear wall.
Once the bottom board has been removed, spray the back wall with a hose and then look for water leak, coming down the inside of the rear wall.
Since LD seals the bottom of the wall with a layer of polyurethane, water that leaks into the wall can be trapped and migrate sideways.  Providing a way for water that penetrates a building's structure to exit is a basic design requirement.
Leaving the bottom board unsealed might be the best approach until you are sure that the leaks) have been sealed.

After completing the repairs, a comprehensive resealing of the end caps, the rear window frame and glass panes is suggested.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #13 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
[quote author=downgrader date=1588197112 link=msg=215141
One interesting note, the wood beam was much softer and rotten on the ends than in the middle so I suspect that means the leaks weren’t coming from the window/middle but down the end caps...don’t you?

End cap leaks is the most likely source of water leaking, it's hard to know without opening up the rear wall.
Once the bottom board has been removed

Got it...thank you Larry.
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #14 –
Well, I started tearing out the rotted wood and am now completely at a loss.  The passenger side rear section was rotted all the way up to where rear wall becomes open space (it looks like the rear horizontal bumper beam is a 2 x 8 or 10).  Fortunately, I think, the panel behind the rear room looks like healthy wood.  While not rotted, the vertical beams behind the passenger end cap are damp at least up to until the top section end cap starts (I burned out yesterday before getting the top section end cap off so it might be dry under there).  Anyways, I'm just really upset.  I wanted to have a professional NRVIA inspection done but no one was available due to corona.  Even as an RV neophyte I noted the previous owner's sloppy attempt at sealing the end caps and the rotting bumper beam, before purchasing, but didn't want to have another LD bought out from under me while making inspection and purchase arrangements.  I guess I figured it was something relatively easily fixed. 

I'm not sure where to go from here.  Find the leak and fix it?  What about the already damp, but not rotten, wood?  How can a new bumper beam be reinserted w/o taking off the entire rear wall when there are strange spacer screws every 6" that are driven starting behind the fiberglass through that beam into the rear room wall?  Feeling pretty hopeless right now.

Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #15 –
There is a thread on here from a fella who dealt with exactly the same thing. Lots of detail and pictures, good reference.
Was about a year or so back. I cant remember his name.

Jon
1994 MB
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #16 –
That is a bit of rot, I'm not sure what spacers screws you are referring to. The only screws visible are the one securing the ladder. A better photo would be helpful. 
Can the offending screws be removed from the exterior side, to be replaced after repairs are made?

If the visible screws are excess extending from whatever they went through, the excess can be cut off using vibratory tool with a hardened, metal cutting blade, a Dremet tool with an angle-head-drive and cutoff wheel or an angle die grinder with a cutoff wheel.  Metal screws are heat treated and tough.

Any wood that is wet but seeming solid should be left to dry. I hope you have a covered area to protect the wall during the repairs. Setting a space heater in the Lounge and letting the rear wall cook for a few days wouldn't hurt.

If you would like to talk it over, send me your phone number in an email. The exchange will go much faster than trying to do so over the forum.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
That is a bit of rot, I'm not sure what spacers screws you are referring to. The only screws visible are the one securing the ladder. A better photo would be helpful. 
Can the offending screws be removed from the exterior side, to be replaced after repairs are made?

If the visible screws are excess extending from whatever they went through, the excess can be cut off using vibratory tool with a hardened, metal cutting blade, a Dremet tool with an angle-head-drive and cutoff wheel or an angle die grinder with a cutoff wheel.  Metal screws are heat treated and tough.

Any wood that is wet but seeming solid should be left to dry. I hope you have a covered area to protect the wall during the repairs. Setting a space heater in the Lounge and letting the rear wall cook for a few days wouldn't hurt.

If you would like to talk it over, send me your phone number in an email. The exchange will go much faster than trying to do so over the forum.

Larry

Sorry to pout like a Millennial...haha.  We were raised to express our feelings, as if everyone needs to hear them.

The screw you're seeing is one of the type I'm wondering about; they're spaced about every 8".  The head actually starts against but behind the fiberglass panel; I removed the ladder screws so they wouldn't show.  I pulled out the rotted wood around them but left them in place.

I can definitely cut/remove those screws but just wondering what their purpose is.  They're not screwed into the rear interior wall very far so I wonder if they just hold the bumper beam in place before attaching the outer wall fiberglass panel.  I can't image what else they would do. 

My rig is in storage with a large canopy cover so at least I have protection from rain.  Also, Colorado is incredibly dry so that should help.  I'll get the space heater set up this afternoon to dry the boards from the interior cabin area.

Gonna email you my info as well and thank you in advance for being willing to chat privately :-)

Howard


**UPDATE** Here's a better picture of the screw type I'm talking about.  This look up from underneath.  The left side is outside the rear wall and the right is the exterior wall of the inside cabin.  The screw head starts from inside the exterior rear wall and screws through the now removed rotten wood into the exterior of the wall of the inside cabin.
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #18 –
Quote from: JonS  - 
There is a thread on here from a fella who dealt with exactly the same thing. Lots of detail and pictures, good reference.
Was about a year or so back. I cant remember his name.

Jon

Thanks Jon, I'll search for it.  If you remember his name let me know.
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #19 –
Howard, you want to search for posts from "Cor2man". He detailed the work he and his wife put in to repair extensive rot. Someone nominated his posts to be the best posts of the year or something like that. I think the message thread was "Hooray for rot repair!"

I sense you bought your rig without seeing it in person? I think you posted questions about the appearance of the shoddily done rear seam resealing when you went to pick this rig up?

What you are dealing with now is something all of us hate to see and some probably wonder what is going on under the skin of their Lazy Daze.

Good luck,
Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #22 –
Hi Howard. Yes we (many of us) feel your pain.  And as Steve said, many of us are wondering if our own rigs, may have this situation on our own rigs, developing as we speak.  I know that I had similar rot on my first (not LD) motorhome, when I bought it at about 11 years old. I didn't know about it then. Took me awhile to fix. Not much money, but a lot of time. Root cause was the back window had been installed upside down, and the sloped back wall fed dew and rain through the weep holes into the wall.   I saw it in person in late 2016 (37 years old) still on the road, owned by the person I sold it to when I got my LD. I took a look inside to see how my novice repairs/improvements were holding up. A great education/feedback for me!
    A 2001 MB that I bought for friends in 2017, had some rot only on the passenger side corner, below the corner cover joint. That corner had popped loose and was funneling water into the corner. I patched that joint, and got as much rot out as I could.  Way less than what you have. Foamed it from below. Made sure the windows were tight, still sealed, and sent it on it's way.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
 
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #23 –
Howard,

Based on the lack of any further response, it sounds like you bought this problem rig without even going to see it before going to pick it up. If that is accurate, this is a good example of how not to buy a used RV. And despite all the advice posted on this terrific site over the years. There is a lesson in there for others who are looking.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Removing Bumper Bolts
Reply #24 –
Quote from: Steve K.  - 
Howard,

Based on the lack of any further response, it sounds like you bought this problem rig without even going to see it before going to pick it up. If that is accurate, this is a good example of how not to buy a used RV. And despite all the advice posted on this terrific site over the years. There is a lesson in there for others who are looking.

Steve K.

Hi Steve,

Not exactly.  I had been searching for about a year and with previous prospects did due diligence including getting NRVIA certified tech lined up.  After 3 of them got bought out from under me while making arrangements to get them inspected and go see them, I decided I had to lax my rules in order to actually get one that wasn't high mileage or early model.

I found this one and scheduled an inspection and made travel arrangements; everything was all set.  Then the pandemic started ramping up in seriousness, my inspector cancelled and I couldn't book another one.  I needed to get one before the end of August and I wasn't sure I would be able to with the country in quarantine.

It wasn't the way I wanted to purchase but circumstances made things a bit difficult.

Anyways, It's a good and relatively low mileage LD and my intentions were always to learn how to fix and maintain every part of it, but I just didn't expect to jump into the deep end right away.

sorry I didn't see your question in the last comment...wasn't avoiding it.