Fresh water tank drain February 06, 2020, 03:03:03 pm I have been fulltiming 11 years, now. In all that time, I have never drained my fresh water tank. I fill at well-maintained systems, and I drop the tank to about 20% or less every week. My strainer before the pump does not have a speck of dirt, nor is there any hint of discoloration. It looks new.A friend suggested that I crack the ball valve drain to see if any sediment had collected on the bottom of the tank. That sounded reasonable to me, so I got a small white bucket and put it under the drain. When I opened the handle, what came out was... nothing. No water, no sediment, nothing.I closed the valve and spent a bit of time thinking about it. I talked with my friend about it. I then went back out with a length of 1/4" wood dowel. My intent was to feel for a blockage between the dump exit point and the ball valve. Who knows - perhaps something was plugging it?I slid the dowel in until it reached the ball. The passage was clear. Thinking that perhaps the ball had become disconnected from the handle, I moved the handle. I could feel the ball moving through the dowel. The mechanism was fine.I opened the valve all the way and pushed the dowel up through the ball. Above the ball, it felt like I was pushing into putty. Still no water was coming out. After a bit more pushing, about an inch or so above the ball valve, the dowel felt like it pushed through whatever was there, but still no water came out. I began withdrawing the dowel.As the dowel end dropped to the ball valve, a cascade of dark chocolate brown sediment gushed out. In seconds, the water was running clear, but that first flow was thick goop. I let it flow a few seconds, then closed the valve and dumped and rinsed the bucket. I put it back under and opened the valve. It ran clear. Then next day, my fresh water tank was down to about 13%. I took the rig for a short, jerky, bumpy drive, then returned to the dump station. I dumped the fresh water tank. Then with the valve open, I ran a hose to add water to the tank, and let that run. The water coming out was flowing along the bottom of the tank and looked clean, so I figured all was now clean.Thinking about this, here is what I come up with as an hypothesis. Over 11 years of filling the tank weekly, that is over 500 fills. None had a significant amount of sediment. The absence of any sediment in my strainer before the pump indicates that nothing of significance was getting into the tank, but any very fine sediment that DID get in would settle to the lowest point. This is NOT the bottom of the tank. Rather, it is the ball valve which is located well below the tank. Down that small plastic pipe, there would be no water movement from sloshing or vibration. Any sediment would gather there. The 11 years of fulltiming had allowed a bit over an inch of material to accumulate in the pipe. It was firm enough that the water pressure in the almost empty fresh water tank was not enough to push it out when the ball valve was opened. Once dislodged, it quickly flowed out, leaving a clean pipe. I refilled my tank and added flushing that valve to my annual maintenance checklist.Am I concerned that there was sediment in my fresh water supply? Not at all. First, the volume was negligible. Second, all our drinking water comes from the ground. Contact with fine sediment is not something that is inherently unhealthy or a contaminant. In fact, water treatment facilities use fine sediment as a filter material to process drinking water. I know that some believe in using a filter when they fill their tank. I don't. The really dangerous stuff in a drinking water supply are cysts, dissolved contaminants, and virus spores. Any filter that would remove cysts and virus needs to be 0.2 microns or smaller in its filtration. My research suggests that the flow rate through such a filter is so slow that filling my tank would take an hour or more. Conventional, higher flow filters will remove small particulate matter, but I do not consider such to be harmful or dangerous. No filter can remove dissolved materials. Of course, YMMV and I have no desire to criticize those who use filters. The lesson here for me is to cycle that valve periodically so any sediment that accumulates in that pipe gets flushed out.Ken F in NM 6 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #1 – February 06, 2020, 05:56:16 pm "I know that some believe in using a filter when they fill their tank. I don't."Over the years I have connected to city water less and less. But, when I did I always used a filter. However... I would often fill my fresh water tank from that very same source 'without' a filter. Whatever was I thinking?As to the drain valve, I can recollect using it only once in the past 15 years. Perhaps it's time to take another look. 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #2 – February 06, 2020, 06:19:59 pm Ken, thanks for the interesting info.Jane
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #3 – February 06, 2020, 06:31:42 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - February 06, 2020, 03:03:03 pmI know that some believe in using a filter when they fill their tank. I don't. The really dangerous stuff in a drinking water supply are cysts, dissolved contaminants, and virus spores. Any filter that would remove cysts and virus needs to be 0.2 microns or smaller in its filtration. My research suggests that the flow rate through such a filter is so slow that filling my tank would take an hour or more. Conventional, higher flow filters will remove small particulate matter, but I do not consider such to be harmful or dangerous. No filter can remove dissolved materials. Of course, YMMV and I have no desire to criticize those who use filters. The lesson here for me is to cycle that valve periodically so any sediment that accumulates in that pipe gets flushed out.Another who doesn't believe in filtering when filling the water tank for the same reasons why Ken doesn't, the filters are not very effective in removing the dangerous stuff but do removed the protective chorine. I always check the color, smell of the water, sometimes tasting it before filling, all drinking water from the tank is either boiled or filtered ( .1 micron) through a sink deck mounted faucet .https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/C3202.htmSediment has not been an issue, our tank has been inspected with a remote camera and only a little sand was seen.If you regularly camp where the water has a heavy mineral or tannin content, specific filters are available to remove certain chemicals.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #4 – February 07, 2020, 08:36:13 am As a proud owner of a "new to me" 2005 LD 30' mid-bath twin. That will eventually be my full time home. I am soaking up as much info as possible! Thank you for sharing. 4 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #5 – February 07, 2020, 09:53:37 am Quote from: OpheliaElaineLD2005 - February 07, 2020, 08:36:13 amAs a proud owner of a "new to me" 2005 LD 30' mid-bath twin. That will eventually be my full time home. I am soaking up as much info as possible! Thank you for sharing. Welcome to the land of Lazy Daze owners. To make sure we understand the model you have, Do you have a 30' LD with twin beds in the rear (TB) instead of an island queen bed (IB) or do you have a 27' LD with twin couches in the rear (Mid-Bath)?Chris 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #6 – February 07, 2020, 04:38:51 pm If in doubt about what model you have, see the Lazy Daze Floorplans document.
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #7 – February 07, 2020, 04:51:26 pm I disagree on a few issues but .....There are filters that can remove assorted chemicals and there are filters that remove medically dangerous bugs. I have no interest in getting on a soap box around or about water. We all have lived a good amount of our life enjoying the water we like. BTW you can not tell by using your born with senses if water is pure or dangerous. Also clorine evaperate in light. Generally it is gone by the time water reaches our homes. (Smile). We in Portland OR. have city wide fights almost yearly about water and what's in it.Glen 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #8 – February 07, 2020, 05:08:57 pm Quote from: colddog - February 07, 2020, 04:51:26 pmBTW you can not tell by using your born with senses if water is pure or dangerous. Not quite true. If you drink it and it kills you, it's dangerous 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #9 – February 07, 2020, 05:50:16 pm Just me, but I dump the freshwater every 2/3 months when on the road. Before a trip, I put a cup of Clorox in the empty tank, fill the tank and leave it overnight, then I dump, fill, dump and fill again. It may not do a damn bit of good, but it makes me feel better.Every time I fill the tank (or whenever I think of it) I add an oz of Chlorine Dioxide (one brand name is Purogene) This kills those tiny critters that might cause some harm. You will have to order Chlorine Dioxide online. Not commonly stocked except in 55gal drums.Filters are for weiners that want to take up my time at the dump while they fitz with them. 2 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #10 – February 07, 2020, 06:33:21 pm Quote from: joel wiley - February 07, 2020, 05:08:57 pmNot quite true. If you drink it and it kills you, it's dangerous I agree death is a good sign the water wasn't as pure as you believed.Glen
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #11 – February 07, 2020, 06:38:10 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - February 07, 2020, 05:50:16 pmEvery time I fill the tank (or whenever I think of it) I add an oz of Chlorine Dioxide (one brand name is Purogene).Purogene is a 2% solution of chlorine dioxide. To put 1 oz of Purogene into 30 gallons of water is considered to be safe. To do that with pure chlorine dioxide would be very dangerous (if not deadly).Klaus.
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #12 – February 07, 2020, 07:03:41 pm Thanks Don. I use a dual stage water filter. If you end up behind me at the dump station, I will gladly let you pull in front. I’m really in no hurry.Kent 2 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #13 – February 08, 2020, 10:56:35 am Thanks Don for mentioning about the use of Purogene in your water tank. I will ad that step occasionally as you have. I don't think you would have needed to do so while you two were staying at our ranch campground as our water comes from our 300' deep well. The main reason I use a single element filter when adding water to the LD is to eliminate any sediments that could cause any problems to the water pump or further downstream. I know there is a screen filter pre-pump but it is in a difficult place to access under the closet drawers and filtering outside the tank eliminates pulling out drawers. After almost 10 years of owning our LD that pre-filter at the pump never had collected any sediment. When storing the LD for an extended period I would leave 3-4 inches of chlorinated water in the tank to prevent algae growing there. Putting Clorox in the cattle water bins at our ranch always eliminated algae buildup there so it should do the same for the LD tank. I did not pump the chlorine water throughout the LD pluming system then. When prepping for our annual trip I would fill the water tank adding more Clorox (2-cups MOL) and then pumping the water throughout the pipes letting it sit for most of a day. I then flushed the entire pluming system including draining/flushing the water heater. This system has worked well for my 37 years of motorhome travel. Maybe we can add another decade of travel in the new LD starting sometime this summer. 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #14 – February 08, 2020, 01:02:29 pm Quote from: Mike Coachman - February 08, 2020, 10:56:35 amI know there is a screen filter pre-pump but it is in a difficult place to access under the closet drawers and filtering outside the tank eliminates pulling out drawers. After almost 10 years of owning our LD that pre-filter at the pump never had collected any sediment. .I have looked at many pump inlet sediment filters and have never seen much in them. The filter is a stainless steel screen with fairly large holes, designed to catch big pieces large enough to jam the pump's check valves.If there is sediment is in the fill water, it should sink to the bottom of the water tank where it will stay. There is not enough water flow around the outlet of the water, caused by the water pump's suction, to pull sediment off the bottom of the tank.To prevent the 'big stuff' from entering the water tank, our water fill hose has a washer screen that works as well or better than the sediment filter. Replace the existing hose washer with a screen washer.https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-5-8-in-Hose-Washers-with-Screen-80070/203193499https://emzcf1avsmx30xukz1z08821-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/58539B-444091-Hose-Washers.jpgIf one is interested in seeing what sits on the bottom of their fresh water tank, inexpensive ($20) endoscopes, that use the screen on your cell phone or tablet, are readily available. Empty the tank and push the camera and cord down the water fill inlet and have a look.Amazon.com: endoscope cell phone: Prime VideoLarry
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #15 – February 08, 2020, 01:51:09 pm This is a bit off topic (mods: feel free to move this post to a more appropriate folder), but I want to add some comments about borescopes/endoscopes. I've owned several over the years.First, longer is not necessarily better. The ones with twenty- or thirty-foot cables are very floppy--about like a USB cable--and that can make it hard to push and guide the camera head to where you want it. I've found a shorter, stiffer one to be more useful.Second, the cheapest endoscopes plug directly into a USB port. That's OK if your tablet or phone can handle external USB video cameras, but Apple's devices can't. And in general, it makes more sense to spend a little more and get one that uses Wi-Fi to send video to the viewing device. That gives you a lot more flexibility, and it effectively makes a shorter endoscope longer, since you won't end up with your phone or tablet shoved up against the entry hole of the space you're inspecting, which makes viewing awkward.Third, buy the highest resolution device you can. Right now the affordable under-$50 endoscopes seem to top out at 2 megapixels, which is pretty low by today's digital camera standards. (If anybody knows of a higher resolution one, let us know!) But there are still a few cheapies around that only give you 640 x 480 (0.3 megapixels). It's hard to recognize what you're looking at with resolution that poor, so I'd avoid those.Fourth, look for an endoscope that includes hook, magnet, and 45° mirror accessories for the camera head. These can be extremely useful for retrieving small objects, and in the case of the mirror, for looking at things that you can't get a head-on view of.Finally, it's easy for these cameras to twist around, and looking at a sideways or upside-down image is confusing. I put a white mark at the top of the camera head, and then I'm careful to feed it into the hole with that mark upward. If I can keep it that way, it helps me make sense of what I'm seeing. 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #16 – February 08, 2020, 02:26:18 pm This is the endoscope I bought, it's cheap but has enough resolution to find things, it's not for a highly detailed examination.Amazon.com : Endoscope Borescope Inspection Camera Snake Camera Wireless...The endoscope connects to the phone or tablet with WiFi, so the lack of a USB port isn't an issue.I agree that 15' of cord is a hassle to deal with and it can be difficult to understand the orientation of the camera at times but how much do we expect from such an inexpensive camera? To make the cord easier to deal with, tape the cord to a piece of baling wire custom bent to access the desired location.Interesting that a $20 endoscope works much better than the Milwaukee endoscope I bought many years ago at a cost near $200.Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #17 – February 08, 2020, 05:10:47 pm Thanks, Larry! Looks as if this is a key feature to look for: "semi-rigid cable... can be bent or just be straight up so that it is more easily for you to control the direction of inspection camera than soft cable." The product you mentioned is no longer available, but I see several others that boast a semi-rigid cable. Good tip about the baling wire, in any case.
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #18 – February 09, 2020, 08:52:57 pm I hope none of you are a gastroenterologist .Randy 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #19 – February 14, 2020, 07:20:46 am Quote from: Chris Horst - February 07, 2020, 09:53:37 amWelcome to the land of Lazy Daze owners. To make sure we understand the model you have, Do you have a 30' LD with twin beds in the rear (TB) instead of an island queen bed (IB) or do you have a 27' LD with twin couches in the rear (Mid-Bath)?ChrisHi Chris,It's a 30' TB. I would have preferred 27' mid-bath with twin King combo. But alas the universe had other ideas. And I am grateful because she is in incredible shape for her age! Juanita
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #20 – February 14, 2020, 10:21:02 am Quote from: OpheliaElaineLD2005 - February 14, 2020, 07:20:46 amHi Chris,It's a 30' TB. I would have preferred 27' mid-bath with twin King combo. But alas the universe had other ideas. And I am grateful because she is in incredible shape for her age! JuanitaThanks, Jaunita. Welcome to the 30' club. 🙂Chris
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #21 – February 14, 2020, 06:57:24 pm I am considering a 1992 Ford E350 Lazy Daze 22' with the rear bath and sofa and 84,000 miles. The 2 chairs and a table are behind the driver's seat and the kitchen is on the left as you enter with a wardrobe across the hallway. It seems well maintained and currently a mechanic owns it and has gone through it and changed the water pump, the tires, repaired the generator and everything else he claims needed repair in the past 6 months he has owned it. Does anyone have a model this old and what should I be looking at particularly before I purchase. It is stored under cover now and seems to be well maintained. Any and all advice is appreciated.
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #22 – February 14, 2020, 09:55:12 pm Quote from: Mirageinnm - February 14, 2020, 06:57:24 pmI am considering a 1992 Ford E350 Lazy Daze 22' with the rear bath and sofa and 84,000 miles. Take a look at the information in these threads.Used Lazy Dazes Inspection Checklists, Tips, Recommendations, DiscussionsPrice help 1992 26 footConsider the fact that RVs, just like cars and homes, disintegrate with time and use. This is a 28 year old LD, 90% of old LDs are nice rigs for the hobbyist/mechanic who loves working on old equipment . Very, very few are cherry. Very few have had all the needed sealing of the roof, end caps and windows, rot is common.If nothing else get it professionally inspected, there are hundreds of things that could be wrong that you will not see or know to look for.Don't fall in love on first sight.If you are thinking that this is a cheap way to get into RVing, think again, RV ownership is an expensive lifestyle.An old RV with hidden defects can easily cost more to repair than what its worth.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Fresh water tank drain Reply #23 – February 14, 2020, 11:24:04 pm A good, professional RV inspection will save you far more than it will cost.HD
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