Starting issue February 04, 2020, 05:58:44 pm Purchased my very first RV a few days ago - a 1981 Dodge Lazy Daze. It started up after pushing gas pedal the day I got it. Drove it ~20 miles home. Next day it took a couple more tries to start it. Got it started with pushing gas today but then it started chugging and died. While turning over the engine makes a slight clicking sound. Also while the key is in the "accessory" and "on" position, there's a low humming from underneath the vehicle. Not sure if that's relevant or not.Tried jumping the battery (even though it had supposedly been recharged by the previous owner before I drove it home, but that did nothing. Tried charging the battery with the jumper cables before starting. Nothing. After some investigation I discovered that I can get it to start by opening up the butterfly valve but it doesn't stay running unless it's getting air.here's a video of the first time i attempted opening that valve. it didn't start this time but i did get it to start another time doing that and just holding the valve openhttps://vimeo.com/389363602
Re: Starting issue Reply #1 – February 04, 2020, 08:34:37 pm Rebecca, are you sure it's an '81? The 1st group below shows '80 models and the 2nd group show '81 models, shifting to Chevy. I hope one of our crack mechanics can help you with the starting issue.Chris119898017' model, Dodge chassis, Slant Six or 318 c.i.d./5.3 liter V8 engine, carburetor, 3-speed auto transmission19.5' model, Dodge chassis, Slant Six or 318 c.i.d./5.3 liter V8 engine, carburetor, 3-speed auto transmission22' model, Dodge chassis, 318 c.i.d./5.3 liter V8 engine or 440 c.i.d./7.3 liter V8 engine, carburetor, 3-speed auto transmission19kkk8118' model, Chevrolet G30 chassis, 350 c.i.d./5.7 liter V8 engine, carburetor, TH400 3-speed auto transmission. UVW (unloaded vehicle weight): 7,222 lb. Payload: 1,678 lb. CCC (cargo carrying capacity): 193 lb. GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating): 8,900 lb.20' model, Chevrolet G30 chassis, 350 c.i.d./5.7 liter V8 engine, carburetor, TH400 3-speed auto transmission. UVW 7,767 lb. Payload: 2,733 lb. CCC: 1,200 lb. GVWR: 10,500 lb.22' model, Chevrolet G30 chassis, 350 c.i.d./5.7 liter V8 engine or 454 c.i.d./7.5 liter V8 engine, TH400 3-speed auto transmission. Width: 96"
Re: Starting issue Reply #2 – February 04, 2020, 09:00:54 pm A 38 year old LD? That's a real oldie.Your LD likely has a number of things wrong with it and needs the attention of an old school mechanic, today's kids know little or nothing about carburetors, distributors and all the stuff older vehicles used.Odds are the starting battery is bad from sitting too long. There could be a host of electrical issues that need attention.I suggest a full tune up, fuel pressure and volume test (to make sure the fuel pump is working properly) and most likely, a carburetor rebuild, along with a full check of the charging system, cooling system, transmission, suspension, brakes and the age and condition of the tires. The coach house battery and the condition of its charging system should also be checked.A change of all the fluids, hoses and belts is advised unless you have records of recent maintenance. The carb kits are still available from Rock Auto. This is a genuine antique and unless you are a good mechanic and all-around fix-it person, you are going to need to find one soon. Larry 4 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #3 – February 04, 2020, 11:26:12 pm What Larry said. Plan 'B' - Assuming you're on tight budget, find an old mechanic (maybe 60 something) and ask him to just get it running for you. Maybe you can avoid the carburetor kit... maybe not. Once it's running you can get estimates on all the costs involved to make it reliable and safe. Be prepared to re-sell it once you see how much these repairs will be. At least you can sell it as a "running" motorhome and hopefully get your money back. Frank 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #4 – February 04, 2020, 11:35:47 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - February 04, 2020, 08:34:37 pmRebecca, are you sure it's an '81? The 1st group below shows '80 models and the 2nd group show '81 models, shifting to Chevy. I hope one of our crack mechanics can help you with the starting issue.Chris119898017' model, Dodge chassis, Slant Six or 318 c.i.d./5.3 liter V8 engine, carburetor, 3-speed auto transmission19.5' model, Dodge chassis, Slant Six or 318 c.i.d./5.3 liter V8 engine, carburetor, 3-speed auto transmission22' model, Dodge chassis, 318 c.i.d./5.3 liter V8 engine or 440 c.i.d./7.3 liter V8 engine, carburetor, 3-speed auto transmission19kkk8118' model, Chevrolet G30 chassis, 350 c.i.d./5.7 liter V8 engine, carburetor, TH400 3-speed auto transmission. UVW (unloaded vehicle weight): 7,222 lb. Payload: 1,678 lb. CCC (cargo carrying capacity): 193 lb. GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating): 8,900 lb.20' model, Chevrolet G30 chassis, 350 c.i.d./5.7 liter V8 engine, carburetor, TH400 3-speed auto transmission. UVW 7,767 lb. Payload: 2,733 lb. CCC: 1,200 lb. GVWR: 10,500 lb.22' model, Chevrolet G30 chassis, 350 c.i.d./5.7 liter V8 engine or 454 c.i.d./7.5 liter V8 engine, TH400 3-speed auto transmission. Width: 96"Might have been a “tweener,” an ‘81 model year on an ‘80 chassis.
Re: Starting issue Reply #5 – February 05, 2020, 12:56:25 am Quote from: HiLola - February 04, 2020, 11:35:47 pmMight have been a “tweener,” an ‘81 model year on an ‘80 chassis.Years ago it was common to find LDs built on a year old chassis.It's unusual to find one built during a transition year, good chance the framing templates would be be different between two different chassis manufacturers. The LD Pocket Guide mentions this at the the top of the Changes 1966 onwards .Changes by yearLarry 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #6 – February 05, 2020, 07:37:03 am Dodges and carburetors, you got to love them. We lived with a 78 Dodge for years, and yours is most likely the same, when they are warm you have to hold the throttle open and crank the engine. As soon as it fires, let off the gas so as it wont over rev.In your case, there is a lot of pumping of the throttle going on which will flood the engine. Holding the throttle wide open allows the choke to open on it's own. Remember, it's wide open only till the engine fires then let off the gas.When the engine is cold, the choke will be open. Give it one pump to set the choke closed and then a couple more to prime the engine. Pumping will flood the engine. Not much help I know but carburetors are nearly a thing from the past and a lot different than fuel injection.Make sure you have a good starting battery because you are going to need it.Jon 3 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #7 – February 05, 2020, 10:27:05 am I sold my last carbureted 4 wheel vehicle last year (1978 Toyota FJ40) and I don't miss carburetors.As for your 1981 Lazy Daze, a quick, hillbilly bodge will be to put a can (or two) of SeaFoam in the tank with a few gallons of gas and follow Jon's starting procedure. When it starts, keep it running at various rpm's (without driving it) and the SeaFoam MAY clean out some of the jets and orifices inside that old carb. It also may not, but it is a cheap gamble. Spraying choke cleaner around the choke plate and down the throat of the carburetor may also help, but does introduce the danger of blowing a flame back up and out of the carb which is quite dangerous. Short periods of spraying cleaner when the engine isn't running will reduce this danger.Larry's recommendations are the best procedure to actually address the problems and get the coach on the road. Plan on carrying lots of tools and getting familiar with all of the systems in this coach. This forum has members who will be helpful as you encounter new situations. It will be a project.Keep us posted.Harold 2 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #8 – February 05, 2020, 11:04:45 am Rebuilt carburetors use to be available . You could check on that. Putting in a kit yourself is an option if you are experienced enough to do it. I forgot to mention before... put in a new battery - ideally a good one. Frank 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #9 – February 05, 2020, 12:02:22 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - February 04, 2020, 08:34:37 pmRebecca, are you sure it's an '81? The 1st group below shows '80 models and the 2nd group show '81 models, shifting to Chevy. I hope one of our crack mechanics can help you with the starting issue.Pretty sure yes. That's what it says on the title at least! The owner's manual in the car is for a '79 dodge but I just figured it was essentially the same engine. The manual isn't that helpful for these issues anyway. I'm trying to track down a full service manual.
Re: Starting issue Reply #10 – February 05, 2020, 12:22:09 pm Quote from: Larry W - February 04, 2020, 09:00:54 pmA 38 year old LD? That's a real oldie.Your LD likely has a number of things wrong with it and needs the attention of an old school mechanic, today's kids know little or nothing about carburetors, distributors and all the stuff older vehicles used.Odds are the starting battery is bad from sitting too long. There could be a host of electrical issues that need attention.I suggest a full tune up, fuel pressure and volume test (to make sure the fuel pump is working properly) and most likely, a carburetor rebuild, along with a full check of the charging system, cooling system, transmission, suspension, brakes and the age and condition of the tires. The coach house battery and the condition of its charging system should also be checked.A change of all the fluids, hoses and belts is advised unless you have records of recent maintenance. The carb kits are still available from Rock Auto. This is a genuine antique and unless you are a good mechanic and all-around fix-it person, you are going to need to find one soon. LarryThe starting battery is only a year old and was recharged by the previous owner the day I bought it. The coach battery definitely hasn't been recharged in a while and might need replacing. Funnily, both batteries are deep cycle marine batteries, which I thought was weird for the starting.Definitely thinking about rebuilding the carburetor. Adjusted the choke plate and idle speed yesterday and got her running, but tapping the gas makes it stall out. That's today's problem! Hopefully I can at least get her moving so I can get it smogged and then registered. Thankfully my dad used to (re)build cars with his dad and has worked on this engine a couple times before. It's been a while for him but he was able to point me in the right direction. I would like to do as much work as I can myself. I'm on a tight budget and I know it's an old vehicle so I want to know as much about the engine as I can in case anything happens when I'm traveling. I also inherited the mechanic that's worked with the last two previous owners, so for major stuff I have him. Hoping to find someone closer though.
Re: Starting issue Reply #11 – February 05, 2020, 12:26:30 pm Quote from: Blueox25 - February 05, 2020, 10:27:05 amI sold my last carbureted 4 wheel vehicle last year (1978 Toyota FJ40) and I don't miss carburetors.As for your 1981 Lazy Daze, a quick, hillbilly bodge will be to put a can (or two) of SeaFoam in the tank with a few gallons of gas and follow Jon's starting procedure. When it starts, keep it running at various rpm's (without driving it) and the SeaFoam MAY clean out some of the jets and orifices inside that old carb. It also may not, but it is a cheap gamble. Spraying choke cleaner around the choke plate and down the throat of the carburetor may also help, but does introduce the danger of blowing a flame back up and out of the carb which is quite dangerous. Short periods of spraying cleaner when the engine isn't running will reduce this danger.Larry's recommendations are the best procedure to actually address the problems and get the coach on the road. Plan on carrying lots of tools and getting familiar with all of the systems in this coach. This forum has members who will be helpful as you encounter new situations. It will be a project.Keep us posted.HaroldExcellent advice. At this point I just need to get it to drive a few miles to the smog place and back so I can get it registered and keep working! The project part is what excites me honestly. Brand spanking new engine in perfect working condition? Boring. I'm already getting great (and quick) info from this forum so I'm very happy!
Re: Starting issue Reply #12 – February 05, 2020, 12:48:39 pm All the joy of carbureted engines...... Brings back memories on my first model t yes a model t with a manual choke.The problem with the choke is that the amount of choke changes with the temperature of the air and engine. if the auto choke isn't working or has problems you will have to do a manual choking. Without getting too deep in the weeds the engine that runs on gas will change the amount of gas depending on the temperature of the air. The choke regulates the amount of air on a cold engine you need less air than a hot engine. in my younger days I would always take off the automatic choke and install a manual choke on all my cars. Maybe in the long run installing a manual choke and regulating it maybe you're easy and cheapest and quickest fixGlen 2 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #13 – February 05, 2020, 12:51:29 pm Hi Rebecca; I lived with another brand motorhome, a 1979 Dodge chassis with a Carter thermoquad carburetor. I replaced it with a spread bore Holly, a much better designed carb. It ran well, and I sold it twenty years ago to a fellow mechanic I worked with and it is still on the road. You didn't say what altitude you are at, or how cold it is. It would help to know which brand engine and size too. The choke plate isn't supposed to close all of the way, it sounds like yours is. There is an idle circuit that may not be working well. When you push the pedal down before starting, you are using the accelerator pump to spray gasoline into the engine to 'prime' it. leave the pedal all the way down to keep the butterfly open, and start it. If flooded this will get extra air into the engine to flush out the extra gasoline, and it should start. When hot, don't add any extra gasoline before starting. On my old Dodge engine I built a pull off manual 'unchoker' cable that would open the choke butterfly when I was at altitude. This prevented too rich a mixture when the engine was cold. That 'humming' noise you hear could be the starter if the bendix mechanism is stuck and the gear isn't engaging the flywheel. Or it could be your climate control system low fan running. Many of older vintage don't shut completely off. The click sound may be a dead battery. A voltmeter will help determine the starting battery health. New batteries, or a known good battery, are good for helping trouble shoot. Choke plates are closed when cold. Open when hot. Almost all have electric heaters to pull them off (open) quicker after starting. I hope you are a good 'old time' mechanic, or know one. You should have a 360 CID type 3 Dodge engine. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #14 – February 05, 2020, 01:16:08 pm Quote from: LawlessSoul - February 05, 2020, 12:26:30 pmExcellent advice. At this point I just need to get it to drive a few miles to the smog place and back so I can get it registered and keep working! The project part is what excites me honestly. Brand spanking new engine in perfect working condition? Boring. I'm already getting great (and quick) info from this forum so I'm very happy!You need to get the engine running smoothly before attempting an emissions test. Idle speed and mixture, along with engine timing are things that will be inspected. A full tune up and getting the carb working correctly is probably going to be necessary to pass. You can deal with the rest of the mechanical issues after the inspection, assuming it's safe to drive.Since you have given no clues to where you are located (or even a name), I can only give advice on California checks.The test here is demanding and is the responsibility of the seller to pass. A new owner can agree to take care of smog issues but it is a financial gamble. Beside the 'sniffer' tail pipe test, the engine must have the original smog equipment, intake system (or exact replacements) and exhaust manifolds. Almost any deviation, no matter if it has zero effects on emissions, can cause the vehicle to be rejected due to the presence of uncertified parts, other than stock engine components parts (such as different carburetors or exhaust manifolds) must have a CARB (California Air Resources Board) sticker.What may save you is the age of the rig, few smog techs will have even seen an old Dodge 318, much less have any idea of what needs checking, other than what information is present to them on the emissions test machine's computer.And Greg''s suggestion to replace the automatic choke with a cable-operated manual choke is a very good one. Good luckLarry 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #15 – February 05, 2020, 01:43:29 pm Quote from: RonB - February 05, 2020, 12:51:29 pm You didn't say what altitude you are at, or how cold it is. It would help to know which brand engine and size too. The choke plate isn't supposed to close all of the way, it sounds like yours is. There is an idle circuit that may not be working well. When you push the pedal down before starting, you are using the accelerator pump to spray gasoline into the engine to 'prime' it. leave the pedal all the way down to keep the butterfly open, and start it. If flooded this will get extra air into the engine to flush out the extra gasoline, and it should start. When hot, don't add any extra gasoline before starting. On my old Dodge engine I built a pull off manual 'unchoker' cable that would open the choke butterfly when I was at altitude. This prevented too rich a mixture when the engine was cold.I'm in San Diego very near the coast. Google says I'm at 422' altitude. I bought it at a lower altitude (82'), on a very warm day. The starting issues did begin when the weather got colder. I think it was freezing last night. and YES the choke is closing all the way. It was getting stuck in a certain position as well. I got it to loosen a little bit and that got it started, but it still doesn't seem to be operating correctly. It's now smoother and I can manually move it, but it's not moving on it's own the way it should be. As for what type of engine, I know it's a V8. It's automatic. The seller said it was a 360 but I'm not sure if that's accurate. I'll do some more investigation.Quote That 'humming' noise you hear could be the starter if the bendix mechanism is stuck and the gear isn't engaging the flywheel. Or it could be your climate control system low fan running. Many of older vintage don't shut completely off. The click sound may be a dead battery. A voltmeter will help determine the starting battery health. New batteries, or a known good battery, are good for helping trouble shoot. Choke plates are closed when cold. Open when hot. Almost all have electric heaters to pull them off (open) quicker after starting. I hope you are a good 'old time' mechanic, or know one. You should have a 360 CID type 3 Dodge engine. RonBI'll check those things out, thanks! I'm pretty new at engines in general, but thankfully I'm very close to family that can help. Apparently he, my dad, and my uncle ran national championship cars that won against future NASCAR and Indy Car champions (competed against Jimmy Vasser and Jeff Gordon). Once I get her moving I have a mechanic who has been working on this RV for years.Rebecca
Re: Starting issue Reply #16 – February 05, 2020, 01:50:32 pm Quote from: Larry W - February 05, 2020, 01:16:08 pmYou need to get the engine running smoothly before attempting an emissions test. Idle speed and mixture, along with engine timing are things that will be inspected. A full tune up and getting the carb working correctly is probably going to be necessary to pass. You can deal with the rest of the mechanical issues after the inspection, assuming it's safe to drive.Since you have given no clues to where you are located (or even a name), I can only give advice on California checks.The test here is demanding and is the responsibility of the seller to pass. A new owner can agree to take care of smog issues but it is a financial gamble. Beside the 'sniffer' tail pipe test, the engine must have the original smog equipment, intake system (or exact replacements) and exhaust manifolds. Almost any deviation, no matter if it has zero effects on emissions, can cause the vehicle to be rejected due to the presence of uncertified parts, other than stock engine components parts (such as different carburetors or exhaust manifolds) must have a CARB (California Air Resources Board) sticker.What may save you is the age of the rig, few smog techs will have even seen an old Dodge 318, much less have any idea of what needs checking, other than what information is present to them on the emissions test machine's computer.And Greg''s suggestion to replace the automatic choke with a cable-operated manual choke is a very good one. Good luckLarryI actually am in California, San Diego very near the coast specifically. Neither the seller nor I realized it was his responsibility to smog it unfortunately. It passed smog in June/July and he knocked a couple hundred off the price (which he wouldn't have done if he'd had to get it smogged again) so I'm trying to take care of it myself for now. He's been cooperative though. Good info. I was encouraged by the fact that it passed relatively recently, but I guess anything could've happened between then and now.Rebecca
Re: Starting issue Reply #17 – February 05, 2020, 01:52:49 pm Quote from: Larry W - February 05, 2020, 01:16:08 pmI can only give advice on California checks...Almost any deviation, no matter if it has zero effects on emissions, can cause the vehicle to be rejected due to the presence of uncertified parts...Larry’s giving you good advice about CA inspections. My ‘96 Cherokee has always passed the emissions test, but in 2007 the Jeep dealer welded on a new catalytic converter due to a recall and did a really poor job. They mounted it in such a way that the part numbers couldn’t be read and it would no longer pass the visual inspection. I had to take it to the CARB Referee who spent over an hour and used small mirrors to read the part numbers and passed it. I asked him to write me a note explaining what he did. That note, along with the inspection receipt and recall letter is what I take with me on all subsequent inspections. So far all the Smog Check stations have accepted the documents and have passed me on the visual.- John 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #18 – February 05, 2020, 11:45:21 pm Updates: Today I cleaned the carburetor with Sea Foam and I got it started and running! Even running better than when I first purchased it. I was able to get it to some great guys for the smog test. Thanks Bubba and Greg! It didn't pass smog, which I figured, but now I know what to do in order to get it to pass and it's not as bad as I thought. Needs an air pump belt, a better fitting air filter, timing adjustments, and a new gas cap. Apparently the original gas caps fit are defective. They fit too tightly and actually create a leak. Greg spent a lot of time with the engine and pointed out some other issues, including the black oil that smells like gas and the choke issue I had already diagnosed. Overall, Maggie the RV is running pretty well and now I can go get it registered and pay to get a 90 day extension on the smog. Successful day.Rebecca 4 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #19 – February 05, 2020, 11:52:27 pm Quote from: LawlessSoul - February 05, 2020, 11:45:21 pmUpdates: Today I cleaned the carburetor with Sea Foam and I got it started and running! Even running better than when I first purchased it. I was able to get it to some great guys for the smog test. Thanks Bubba and Greg! It didn't pass smog, which I figured, but now I know what to do in order to get it to pass and it's not as bad as I thought. Needs an air pump belt, a better fitting air filter, timing adjustments, and a new gas cap. Apparently the original gas caps fit are defective. They fit too tightly and actually create a leak. Greg spent a lot of time with the engine and pointed out some other issues, including the black oil that smells like gas and the choke issue I had already diagnosed. Overall, Maggie the RV is running pretty well and now I can go get it registered and pay to get a 90 day extension on the smog. Successful day.RebeccaRebecca, thanks for providing updates to those who took time to respond to your cry for help. Some folks forget to do that.Chris 4 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #20 – February 06, 2020, 09:12:33 am "....thanks for providing updates to those who took time to respond to your cry for help. Some folks forget to do that."----Agreed; posting the outcome of an issue and/or the fix that was done adds to the 'knowledge base' for all of us. 1 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #21 – February 06, 2020, 09:26:07 am I think it's great you are rehabbing a vintage Lazy Daze! I know that carburetors can try your patience but once they are properly jetted and dialed in they can be great runners. All old farts like me remember having our special routine for the start-up when it's cold and the start-up when it's hot. Pump once hold down, etc. Out here in burning hot Arizona some of us even locked our chokes open or took them off! (not recommended for California emissions) Whether you find a carburetor shaman or just bolt on a replacement once it's running you're going to love it. Lazy Daze owners are a diverse group. Some ordered brand new ones from the factory. Some, like me bought a beater and spend as much time renovating and improving them as we do traveling down the road. In the end, they all have a problems sooner or later, new or old, the coach is going to have problems. But you, with your hands on experience, will have some idea of what it is and know how to fix it. Not to mention you won't have spent $120,000. That said, O'reillys may get a few of your $$$ Have some fun! 5 Likes
Re: Starting issue Reply #22 – February 06, 2020, 12:50:50 pm Quote from: LawlessSoul - February 05, 2020, 11:45:21 pmUpdates: Today I cleaned the carburetor with Sea Foam and I got it started and running! Even running better than when I first purchased it. I was able to get it to some great guys for the smog test. Thanks Bubba and Greg! It didn't pass smog, which I figured, but now I know what to do in order to get it to pass and it's not as bad as I thoughtCongratulations on getting it running and letting us know, now you can start going through it to make it a dependable traveling machine,One thing about the older rigs, the drivelines are a lot simpler and lighter.Place a link to Rock Auto on your computer, it is going to be the best place to find a wide variety of parts, stick with the professional grades parts and avoid the "economy' parts, the lower grade parts often sold at discount auto parts stores. Many time the same parts can be found even cheaper by Googling the parts numbers from Rock Auto.RockAutoLarry 3 Likes
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