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Topic: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing) (Read 592 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from Non-member Classifie...
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How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Quote from: LindaB  - 
I ordered my LD on January 10, 2020.  A Green RB, maple cabinetry, Mollusk (grey tweed) upholstery with Ford driver assist package, 2nd solar panel, backup camera, upgraded mirrors, and 2 extra 12v outlets.  I told Todd I have to take delivery after the end of August and that is what he put on the order form for approximate delivery.

I'm wondering if one 115W solar panel is enough. Didn't they offer the option of 2 panels a while back?

2021 Mid Bath
 
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #1 –
Hi Ted. Yes indeed, Linda ordered the second panel, (mentioned on the second line, first paragraph). With two 115 watt panels, for a total of 230, that gives a good start. With a 27' RB, there should be enough roof space to expand that to another two panels and 460 watts. I don't think LD offers LiFeO4 batteries yet. Are you in the planning stages?  I'm not getting any younger, my next LD might be my last.  Maybe a 2022 MB.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #2 –
Ted,

No. One panel is not enough. Two 100 watt panels worked for us for the first year or so but I soon realized it just couldn’t provide enough power for our minimal needs.

My planned Solar upgrade reflects my desire to keep ahead of the power curve and our style of camping. It’s not often we have hookups. The sun is fickle and I’m hoping that with more panels and more battery capacity I can capture the suns energy more efficiently and store more power for a longer time.

I’m looking forward to the upgrade. Like others have said, LD doesn’t make it easy to upgrade their solar power system. You may want to check previous posts on the topic to get a clearer picture of what this type of upgrade can entail.

Best of luck with your choices.

Kent



2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #3 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
No. One panel is not enough. Two 100 watt panels worked for us for the first year or so but I soon realized it just couldn’t provide enough power for our minimal needs.

Agree, for many, two panels are not enough, especially if you dry camp much in the winter where the solar output is half of the what's produced in the summer.
For our usage, 400-watts of solar is more than enough in the summer but not adequate in the winter to fully recharge the battery. I'm thinking about adding another 100-watt panel, connected only in the winter. We have an oversize battery that can handle the extra output.
If you plan on adding more panels after delivery, consider ordering one panel. When upgrading the solar, the lead-in wiring will need to be upsized for best efficiently.
By installing one panel, the wiring run and the solar controller box will already be there, simplifying the upgrade. The Mothership charge too much for the second panel.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #4 –
"By installing one panel, the wiring run and the solar controller box will already be there, simplifying the upgrade."

I agree on the basic concept... however LD, does not/has not, located that single panel in an optimum position. On my '04 30'IB it was necessary to relocate the factory standard panel to a different location due to the fact that it was being shaded by the A/C shroud. AM Solar just shook their heads when assessing the situation!   ::)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
Agree, for many, two panels are not enough, especially if you dry camp much in the winter where the solar output is half of the what's produced in the summer.
For our usage, 400-watts of solar is more than enough in the summer but not adequate in the winter to fully recharge the battery. I'm thinking about adding another 100-watt panel, connected only in the winter. We have an oversize battery that can handle the extra output.
If you plan on adding more panels after delivery, consider ordering one panel. When upgrading the solar, the lead-in wiring will need to be upsized for best efficiently.
By installing one panel, the wiring run and the solar controller box will already be there, simplifying the upgrade. The Mothership charge too much for the second panel.

Larry



When adding just one more panel to feed the stock battery setup would the lead-in wiring need to be upgraded?

Is adding another panel done cheaper elsewhere? It's not something I'm ready to tackle I don't think. And then there is the warranty factor if I mess with it.

I've never had solar.
We've taken many long trips and yes I'd love to not have to run the generator after a couple of days although we do when we need A/C dry camping.
2021 Mid Bath
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
I agree on the basic concept... however LD, does not/has not, located that single panel in an optimum position. On my '04 30'IB it was necessary to relocate the factory standard panel to a different location due to the fact that it was being shaded by the A/C shroud. AM Solar just shook their heads when assessing the situation!  ::)

And if two panels are ordered, they will be located in optimize positions?
LD mounts the panels where it's convenient for them, not to prevent shading..
When upgrading from one to more panels, the original panel can be and often is relocated to a better position.

Several panels wired in parallel, located around the roof, will still produce power when a panel is shaded, at a reduced rate.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #7 –
Quote from: tedeboy  - 
When adding just one more panel to feed the stock battery setup would the lead-in wiring need to be upgraded?

Is adding another panel done cheaper elsewhere? It's not something I'm ready to tackle I don't think. And then there is the warranty factor if I mess with it.

When upgrading from one to more panels, the lead-in wire or cabling should be upsized to harvest the maximum power possible. Bigger wire makes a big different in efficiently wen it comes to battery charging .
By already having a wire installed means the pathway for the  has been made, I remove the old wiring and add the new, larger wire. If not easily removable, the original wire wire can be used and supplemented with another wire, connected together at both ends .

LD charges a lot for the second panel, many prefer to visit AM Solar, go to Quartsite or have an local installer add more panels, located in better spots.
For most of us, the optional second 100-watt panel will still not produce enough power for longer dry camping, especially in the winter. Most boondockers need 300-400-watts, or more, of solar.

Larry


Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #8 –
AM Solar does excellent work, but if one lives in the Bay Area of California (or this location is otherwise convenient), Quality RV Solar in Fremont, CA is a good choice.

Quality RV Solar, LLC

Appointments may need to be scheduled well in advance, but Dan does a great job and uses state-of-the-art products and equipment.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
When upgrading from one to more panels, the lead-in wire or cabling should be upsized to harvest the maximum power possible. Bigger wire makes a big different in efficiently wen it comes to battery charging .
By already having a wire installed means the pathway for the  has been made, I remove the old wiring and add the new, larger wire. If not easily removable, the original wire wire can be used and supplemented with another wire, connected together at both ends .

LD charges a lot for the second panel, many prefer to visit AM Solar, go to Quartsite or have an local installer add more panels, located in better spots.
For most of us, the optional second 100-watt panel will still not produce enough power for longer dry camping, especially in the winter. Most boondockers need 300-400-watts, or more, of solar.

Larry




Do you happen to know what size wire they use?
I know they probably won't but should I ask for an upsize during install?
What is the ideal size?
2021 Mid Bath
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #10 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
AM Solar does excellent work, but if one lives in the Bay Area of California (or this location is otherwise convenient), Quality RV Solar in Fremont, CA is a good choice.

Quality RV Solar, LLC

Appointments may need to be scheduled well in advance, but Dan does a great job and uses state-of-the-art products and equipment.

How are the installers at Q?  Any good?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #11 –
"Do you happen to know what size wire they use?"

There's no one right answer; it depends upon how many watts you're putting up there, how much voltage drop you feel is acceptable, and (very important) whether the panels are wired in parallel or series-parallel. The latter cuts voltage drop in half for a given wire size, but from what I've heard, most installers are still wiring all panels in parallel. Each arrangement has its pluses and minuses, but for my money, series-parallel (panels wired in series pairs, then pairs paralleled with each other) wins. (Note: to do this, you'll need an even number of panels, and of course an MPPT controller to handle the higher voltage.)

Getting back to wire gauge: I prefer to keep voltage drop well below 2%, but this is an individual choice. Once you know the maximum voltage and amperage you expect to have coming down from the roof, and the length of the wire runs, this voltage drop calculator will let you experiment until you find the wire size that best suits your installation.

For example, take this scenario: with four 100 W panels in parallel delivering 18 V max at 5.5 A per panel for a total of 22 A, using 6 gauge wire, DC, copper conductor, 75° C*, no conduit, single set of conductors, 20 feet (one way), you get 2.4% voltage drop. Doesn't sound like much, but that's more than half a volt, which in these systems is significant.

* that sounds high, but it's a number typically used in these calculations--remember, it can get pretty hot up on the roof!

Keeping all four panels in parallel but going from 6 gauge wire down to 4 gauge brings the voltage drop down to 1.5%. On the other hand, staying with 6 gauge but hooking up the panels in series-parallel will bring your losses down to 1.2%--better still.

You get the idea. Check out that voltage drop calculator, and experiment. :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #12 –
Quote from: rich  - 
For those with a Mid-Bath, it's possible to fit one large panel in the space forward of the A/C and behind the overcab vent.  It's a beautiful spot and having 1 panel close to the fridge vent simplifies everything.  I have a single 12V 200W panel, but I think it's possible to get a single 400W higher voltage panel in the same space these days.  That would pair nicely with a MPPT controller for a simple but efficient setup.
I have one 320 watts panel in that spot. Without the emergency exit a second panel could be added (but I think at least for now I'm fine with what I have now).

Before having the solar system installed I created a blueprint of the roof and then played with all kinds of solar panels that at that time were being sold by Northern Arizona Wind & Sun in Flagstaff (which are just 30 miles away from where I live).

Klaus
2001 26.5 Mid-Bath
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #13 –
On most rigs, there is some way to get enough solar on it, using the variety of panel sizes available.
It might require moving a Factory panel, so be it, there is nothing special or sacred about where the Mothership placed them.
If our 23.5' FL has room for 500-watts of panels and the kayak racks, other models can do something similar.
The addition of a satellite disc will use a big portion the roof.
Optimizing the available space takes a lot of measuring and planning. Before ordering, I measured the roof and found the solar panel was not in the right place to allow for expansion, so I has Steve move it. It was the only change he allowed in the rig.
I didn't order he second panel, I had other plans. The one panel was order to provide the interior box and wiring runs for the solar controller and for the Factory wiring access to the roof.

There are advantages to having several panels, if one is shaded, it will not effect the output of the other panels.
With a single large panel, if one section of it is shaded, the panel is shut down, its remaining output voltage will be too low to charge the battery. Small things like antenna shadows are enough to significantly drop the panel's output.
Spreading panels around the roof is a good way to reduce issues with shadowing.

While the refrigerator vent is a way to enter the wiring into the interior, bringing it through the roof is often a simpler and cleaner way of doing it. It doesn't need to be overly complicated.
This is how the Mothership does it, the are parts available at Home Depot.



The entry consist of a galvanize electrical box cover, a 90-degree, waterproof electrical fitting , 1/2" or 3/4" waterproof flexible tubing, a few stainless screws and polyurethane sealant . It's not rocket science.
On our LD, a waterproof junction box has been added where the wires from the panels meet. It simplifies working on or adding panels.  The solar lead in cable was upsized from 10-gauge to 6-gauge wire.
Junction box | Exterior electrical box mounted in position o… | Flickr
Solar junction box | Exterior electrical box from HD. A two … | Flickr

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #14 –
[split a WHOLE bunch of solar-related posts out of the 2021 pricing topic - Michelle]
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #15 –
I recently spoke with Garret at AM Solar and finalized our upcoming Solar Upgrade. Our RB has room for a total of six panels. This will be the two 100 watt panels originally installed at the factory and  four 90 watt Zamp panels.

The panels will be connected in parallel with 6 gauge or heavier wire. In addition to the roof panels, we are having a quick connect electrical input installed at ground level for Portable Solar panels as a future proof measure.

The rest of the coach electrical system will be getting a complete overhaul as well. After the installation is completed, I never expect to run out of power again. That’s the plan, anyway.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #16 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
I recently spoke with Garret at AM Solar and finalized our upcoming Solar Upgrade. Our RB has room for a total of six panels. This will be the two 100 watt panels originally installed at the factory and  four 90 watt Zamp panels.

The panels will be connected in parallel with 6 gauge or heavier wire. In addition to the roof panels, we are having a quick connect electrical input installed at ground level for Portable Solar panels as a future proof measure.

The rest of the coach electrical system will be getting a complete overhaul as well. After the installation is completed, I never expect to run out of power again. That’s the plan, anyway.

Kent
Kent, I'm curious as to why you are not using higher watt panels on the roof thus precluding the need for portable ones?

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #17 –
Chris,

The easiest answer is real estate. The Zamp 90’s are within inches the same size of the current 100’s. Larger panels just will not fit. Also portables should work well in CG’s with too much tree cover and seasonal low light.

With the sat. dish, TV antenna, AC, the three roof vents and connection boxes the Zamp panels will fit perfectly. Garret suggested larger higher yield panels until I mentioned the available space.

Interestingly, when I originally selected the Zamp 100 watt panels (also a good physical fit), he mentioned that the 90’s were overall a better panel for anyone not demanding the aesthetics of low lying panels.

 When I examined the 90’s specs, they will actually be a more efficient panel than our original set and possibly the Zamp 100’s. Couple that with the fact that the 90’s are more than $100 less each, it made perfect Cents. 💰

Kent

2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #18 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
Chris,

The easiest answer is real estate. The Zamp 90’s are within inches the same size of the current 100’s. Larger panels just will not fit. Also portables should work well in CG’s will too much tree cover and seasonal low light.

With the sat. dish, TV antenna, AC, the three roof vents and connection boxes the Zamp panels will fit perfectly. Garret suggested larger higher yield panels until I mentioned the available space.

Interestingly, when I originally selected the Zamp 100 watt panels (also a good physical fit), he mentioned that the 90’s were overall a better panel for anyone not too concerned with low lying panels.

 When I examined the 90’s specs, they will actually be a more efficient panel than our original set and possibly the Zamp 100’s. Couple that with the fact that the 90’s are more than $100 less each, it made perfect Cents. 💰

Kent


Thanks for the explanation. 

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #19 –
If there is any interest at the Morro Bay GTO I can demo my home made portable solar panel setup.    It's only a 50 watt experiment.   I learned a large amount of interesting detail for a relatively cheap investment.

Glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #20 –
Quote from: colddog  - 
If there is any interest at the Morro Bay GTO I can demo my home made portable solar panel setup.    It's only a 50 watt experiment.  I learned a large amount of interesting detail for a relatively cheap investment.
Glen

We love demos!

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #21 –
Hi Glen. Are you going to have it there anyway? Always interested in what other people have done. I've had a 150 watt rooftop system since 2002, still runs fine. Thanks Larry,  I may add that Home Depot 100 watt panel, Grape Solar. It is still within the capability of my present MPPT controller.  And it's 36 cells. Still room on the roof.  RonB
 
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #22 –

"Hi Glen. Are you going to have it there anyway? Always interested in what other people have done. "

Yup, my experiment is packed under all of lisbeth new medical equipment.   It's easy to setup and explain.     My plan in the future is to upgrade to larger solar panels and other supported parts.

Glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: How many solar panels? (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing)
Reply #23 –
Solar panels have been around for some time now. How many are actually made in the Good Ol’ USA? Zamp’s are.

AM Solar sells them and I am excited to support the American manufacturing community. Here’s a factory tour of the Zamp factory in Bend, Oregon.

https://youtu.be/h1pKTLJJsu4

Pretty interesting stuff.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"