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Topic: Hidden Circuit Breakers Location - 50 & 100 amps (Read 1378 times) previous topic - next topic
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Hidden Circuit Breakers Location - 50 & 100 amps
I have been living in my 2003 26' mid-bath for almost two years now and have had no electrical issues until last week when, while plugged in to shore power, I ran a small electric heater. It blew the breaker in the house I'm plugged into and but now NOTHING works–not my lights, fridge or control panel UNLESS I'm plugged into shore power. I have 600w of solar and my inverter is fine so it's not a problem with the batteries. I checked all of the breakers and fuses in the circuit box next to my oven and everything checks out okay. Again, while plugged into shore power, everything works fine. I am hoping to avoid the cost of having it serviced.
2001 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #1 –
I am certainly no expert but since you checked the obvious stuff, how about the 50amp push button breaker under the refrigerator.  You need to pull out the drawer to get to it.  It’s on the left.  Good luck.
2006 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #2 –
I read somewhere that if I wanted to use a small electric heater to save propane, use it on low and run a dedicated HD single extension cord to the pedestal outside, not to plug it into the RV outlets, hope that helps next time
Nov 2023, 2012 31’ IB, white/green swoops & swirles, 2009 Mini Cooper, racing green convertible, toad 🐸

We ordered white/gray  2018 27' mid bath 1/3/18 and we are hoping for a July 16th 2019 delivery, sold, and tried a Lithium Travato, wish  I would have kept the Lazy Daze 27’
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #3 –
Just to clarify: You're saying that after 1) tripping a 120 VAC breaker outside the rig, 2) you now have no 12 VDC power when running on batteries, but 3) you do have 12V power when plugged into shore power. Correct?

If so, that implies your converter is working, but there's a disconnect between your batteries and the rest of your 12 V system. I second Jack's suggestion to reset the master 12 V breaker below the fridge. I'm not sure whether that could produce the symptoms you describe, but resetting it is worth a try.

You didn't say how you are plugged into a house, but in most cases you won't get more than 15 or 20 amps tops--not like a 30 A shore-power connection at a campground. If using a longish extension cord, you may get even less. Here are a few tips for that situation.

1. Use a 15 A to 30 A adapter at the house end and a 30 A extension cord to the rig, rather than running a skinny 15 A extension cord out to the rig. This will minimize voltage drop.

2. As Clark suggested, never run your portable electric heater on its highest setting. At that setting it will take all the current a household outlet can supply, leaving no margin for error. If possible, buy a heater with three heat settings (typically 600/900/1500 watts). Depending upon available power, you may be able to run two of these on their 600 W settings, placing one in each end of the rig. Two low-powered heaters will do a much better job of keeping your rig warm than one high-powered heater.

3. Find out what else is using the household circuit you are plugging into. If there's a space heater, coffeemaker, hair dryer or other high-wattage appliance in the house that's using the same circuit, then you are sharing 15-20 amps with it. Limit your usage accordingly.

4. Switch your refrigerator to propane. When running, it draws 3 amps, and that can push the circuit beyond its limits.

5. Forget about using the microwave oven or coffeemaker.

Hope this helps!
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Tiger (Clark)  - 
I read somewhere that if I wanted to use a small electric heater to save propane, use it on low and run a dedicated HD single extension cord to the pedestal outside, not to plug it into the RV outlets, hope that helps next time

A large 120-volt electric heater can be run on any of the interior's plugs without issues as long as the circuit isn't overloaded.
If more than one large electric heater needs to run, using the pedestal's additional 20-amp plug to power it is suggested.

The suggestion for the OP to check the circuit breaker is good one. The 50-amp automatic breaker has no standard location, it can be hidden in many places, unusually within three feet of the Power Center. The 50-amp circuit breaker is part of the main positive wire coming from the battery to the Power Center, after passing thought the 100-amp breaker, which is located inside the battery box. Either breaker could be tripped or be defective.
The Owner's Manual does not acknowledge 50-amp circuit's existence or show its location, it can be hidden under drawer or panels.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #5 –
Hi Tiger. A small 600Watt electric heater works well on the built in 110VAC outlets. I carry one and use it when I have hookups. There is no need to run an extra cord, and if you did you would need a way to plug in the heater to it. What?; through a window? Just watch how many other things are on.
     On a slightly different topic, This seems like a good place. I know that many people don't know how to recognize a circuit breaker that has tripped. The handle will be in the center between the off or on position.  To reset one, especially a GFCI breaker. You have to flip the breaker all the way off. Then turn it all the way on again.  (this is not the problem Kush has, but I wanted to repeat that here.)     The GFCI should be tested at least once a year by pressing the "push to test" button. It should trip. Then you will need to reset it. This goes for residential breakers also.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #6 –
Kush,

Jack Hiett's recommendation is your likely solution to your short.  As others have said, if you pull out the bottom drawers from under your refrigerator or other cabinets and shine a flashlight inside, you will likely find some wire cables that appear to go to a small connector.  That little small connector is your breaker.  As Andy pointed out, there is no reference to it in your owner's manual.  On that connector, there is a little black button on the side that will reset your house's internal 12 volt system.  Your symptoms mimicked mine and I detailed my solution in a text on another thread.  I am sure you can navigate to that earlier thread in a search of this site.  I enclosed pictures showing the location and included photos of the small breaker in my 30 TB.

Let us know if you solved your problem,

Gary
2007 30' TB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #7 –
"there is no reference to it in your owner's manual"

As I recall, it was mentioned my 2003 midbath's manual... but they didn't say where it was! And hiding it inside a cabinet under the fridge (in the case of the midbath) makes it extremely unlikely that an owner would ever find it. Grrr.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #8 –
"...it was mentioned my 2003 midbath's manual... but they didn't say where it was!"
---
The manual for my 2003 TK contains a schematic labeled 'Typical Diode Isolator, House Batteries, Radio and CB Fuses and Their Power Source, 100 amp 12V Reset Circuit Breaker'. The diagram is basic, and may be generic, but it does show the 100A circuit breaker manual rest as being located 'inside the house battery compartment'. The 50A circuit breaker manual reset shows as being 'located within 2' of the house batteries within the motorhome.' 

In the case of the TK, I suspect that this is close to the wall between the battery compartment and the power center compartment (inside the power center compartment) and getting to the 50A breaker most likely requires pulling out the power center. If anyone has a TK of similar vintage (I have no idea if the location has changed in newer models) and has already done the 50A treasure hunt, maybe they'll share their discovery of the location?
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
"...it was mentioned my 2003 midbath's manual... but they didn't say where it was!"
---
The manual for my 2003 TK contains a schematic labeled 'Typical Diode Isolator, House Batteries, Radio and CB Fuses and Their Power Source, 100 amp 12V Reset Circuit Breaker'. The diagram is basic, and may be generic, but it does show the 100A circuit breaker manual rest as being located 'inside the house battery compartment'. The 50A circuit breaker manual reset shows as being 'located within 2' of the house batteries within the motorhome.' 

In the case of the TK, I suspect that this is close to the wall between the battery compartment and the power center compartment (inside the power center compartment) and getting to the 50A breaker most likely requires pulling out the power center. If anyone has a TK of similar vintage (I have no idea if the location has changed in newer models) and has already done the 50A treasure hunt, maybe they'll share their discovery of the location?
As does the manual for my '02 30'.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
 
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #10 –
I humbly stand corrected; I had missed the reference in my manual it seems...………………

Gary
2007 30' TB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #11 –
Quote from: jakester1201  - 
I humbly stand corrected; I had missed the reference in my manual it seems...………………

Gary
I think we all forget how complete and detailed the LD manuals are. Many RV manuals aren't so.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #12 –
In our 1994 Mid Bath, the breaker in question is under the dinette bench closest to the exit door.

Jon
1994 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #13 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
Just to clarify: You're saying that after 1) tripping a 120 VAC breaker outside the rig, 2) you now have no 12 VDC power when running on batteries, but 3) you do have 12V power when plugged into shore power. Correct?

If so, that implies your converter is working, but there's a disconnect between your batteries and the rest of your 12 V system. I second Jack's suggestion to reset the master 12 V breaker below the fridge. I'm not sure whether that could produce the symptoms you describe, but resetting it is worth a try.

You didn't say how you are plugged into a house, but in most cases you won't get more than 15 or 20 amps tops--not like a 30 A shore-power connection at a campground. If using a longish extension cord, you may get even less. Here are a few tips for that situation.

1. Use a 15 A to 30 A adapter at the house end and a 30 A extension cord to the rig, rather than running a skinny 15 A extension cord out to the rig. This will minimize voltage drop.

2. As Clark suggested, never run your portable electric heater on its highest setting. At that setting it will take all the current a household outlet can supply, leaving no margin for error. If possible, buy a heater with three heat settings (typically 600/900/1500 watts). Depending upon available power, you may be able to run two of these on their 600 W settings, placing one in each end of the rig. Two low-powered heaters will do a much better job of keeping your rig warm than one high-powered heater.

3. Find out what else is using the household circuit you are plugging into. If there's a space heater, coffeemaker, hair dryer or other high-wattage appliance in the house that's using the same circuit, then you are sharing 15-20 amps with it. Limit your usage accordingly.

4. Switch your refrigerator to propane. When running, it draws 3 amps, and that can push the circuit beyond its limits.

5. Forget about using the microwave oven or coffeemaker.

Hope this helps!
Thank you! That's very helpful!
2001 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #14 –
Here's what's under my fridge but I don't see any switches. Thanks to everyone for your help! I am so appreciative.
2001 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #15 –
Quote from: JonS  - 
In our 1994 Mid Bath, the breaker in question is under the dinette bench closest to the exit door.

Jon


I don't have a dinette–only a folding table with bookcase beneath. I'm not able to find anything that resembles your photo anywhere but I'll continue searching!
2001 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #16 –
Our kitchen table is immediately to the right of the entry door but our battery box is also in the same location on the outside. Locate your battery box outside and look inside the coach behind the box. ours has a couple large red wires. Bear in mind ours is a 1994 model.
1994 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #17 –
Quote from: JonS  - 
Our kitchen table is immediately to the right of the entry door but our battery box is also in the same location on the outside. Locate your battery box outside and look inside the coach behind the box. ours has a couple large red wires. Bear in mind ours is a 1994 model.

I pulled the batteries out and there's nothing behind them at all and there's nothing beneath the seat that's beside the door. Thank you though!
2001 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #18 –
This sounds like an old Parallex / Magnatek dc converter relay failure.  What converter is installed?
Is there a marine grade fuse installed on the battery terminals?  1988 MB has a self resetting breakers outside on the bottom of the floor in front of the battery box !
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #19 –
Quote from: rodneyhelfrich  - 
This sounds like an old Parallex / Magnatek dc converter relay failure.  What converter is installed?
Is there a marine grade fuse installed on the battery terminals?  1988 MB has a self resetting breakers outside on the bottom of the floor in front of the battery box !
Forgive me but I have no idea of the answers to your first questions but to your last question, when you say "battery box," do you mean the sliding tray that HOLDS my batteries? Because I looked in there and at the back and there are no breakers at all.
2001 MB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #20 –
Kush, I had a 2003 midbath like yours. Jack had the correct answer: remove the drawer under the fridge (takes a hard pull or jerk). Reach inside the opening and feel around on the left for a small box about half the size of an ice cube with two wires attached. It has a tiny reset button one side. Push the button. I hope that does the trick!
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #21 –
Kush,
Sorry for the confusion i created.
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #22 –
Rodney and Kush; My '99, not a MidBath but a TK, has a resettable circuit breaker mounted in the back, at the top, in the battery box. (100 Amp I think) Black alongside the black coated interior makes it hard to see if you don't know that it is there.  I think that Andy and Larry are referring to a second resettable circuit breaker, located inside the coach, nearest the battery box in a cleaner location. (50 Amp I think) I probably have that also in the TK but I've never needed to find it or reset it (yet).  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #23 –
OK, this may be a dumb theory about what might be wrong, Kush. But, I'm going to mention it because it happened to us. It's just a theory because I don't understand how or why it happened.

We had our TK plugged in to shore power for several weeks. When we uplugged it and tried using the appliances off the Lazy Daze 12V system, nothing worked.

I read the manual thinking I needed to find something to switch to get our LD to "see" and "connect" back to the 12V system. I could not find any reference to a switchover from shore to 12V, so we kept trying to turn things on.

It turned out that there was some kind of delay and after awhile the 12V system started working again - which we discovered by keeping trying turning things on and leaving them in the on position instead of just turning them on/off quick.  I wish I could explain it better.

I'm just mentioning it in case something like this is happening and it's not actually a blown circuit.

Jim & Deb
Santa Cruz, California
Re: Blew a circuit somewhere and can't figure out where.
Reply #24 –
Quote from: Jim Langley  - 
OK, this may be a dumb theory about what might be wrong, Kush. But, I'm going to mention it because it happened to us. It's just a theory because I don't understand how or why it happened.

We had our TK plugged in to shore power for several weeks. When we uplugged it and tried using the appliances off the Lazy Daze 12V system, nothing worked.

I read the manual thinking I needed to find something to switch to get our LD to "see" and "connect" back to the 12V system. I could not find any reference to a switchover from shore to 12V, so we kept trying to turn things on.

It turned out that there was some kind of delay and after awhile the 12V system started working again - which we discovered by keeping trying turning things on and leaving them in the on position instead of just turning them on/off quick.  I wish I could explain it better.

I'm just mentioning it in case something like this is happening and it's not actually a blown circuit.

Jim & Deb
Santa Cruz, California

Thanks for the help, Jim & Deb. I did try that and nothing worked.
2001 MB