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Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Last week I drove down to the Palm Springs area to leave my LD with in-laws.  On my trip I stayed in the Beatty, NV, RV park. Mike, the owner was gone for the day so you just put your $25 through a slot and get the bathroom/wi-fi code from another camper. Don't you just love RV folks! Anyway as I was having my nightly libation a fellow camper was working on a project and so I wandered over to see(nosy-me and Mrs. Kravitz). The fellow was from New Zealand. They travel the USA in their RV, licensed in MT and stored at Oceanside, CA, and return to NZealand in the winter. Have been for years. Love America.
Anyway, his project was re gluing his cupboard doors. (Coachmen,newer) I kid you not the cupboards were "laminated" with paper! It separates from the particle board if it gets wet. This particular cupboard door was under their sink. I was shocked but he said , Oh that's not the worst, I needed my spare tire and when I got it down there were slashes in it from the way it was mounted to the underneath, had to have it modified so I could carry the spare. He said that that's just how RV's are made.
Of course I said "not mine" Yeah he had heard of LD's but din't really like the retro look. "Well, I'm a bit retro so it works for me", I said.
I am a lucky girl to have found my LD, sometimes I think it found me 'cuz it knew it would get spoiled. There's that cult thing again:)
2005 RK
Re: Travel encounter
Reply #1 –
Yes, this is similar to what we found when we first started looking.  We had a list of reliable better built brands we were looking at but just starting our look and went to a local dealer to see what they had. We sat in a smaller Thor RV - class C.
The side of the refrigerator cabinet was very thin pressboard and it was attached to the front of the fridge with paper tape (with a wood pattern).  I though what?  That is going to split very soon and they didn't even bother to put in tiny brad nails or tacks (which would not have been great but much better than paper tape).
The trim on the dinette was falling off already. 
This was all on a brand new RV still in the dealer lot.
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Travel encounter
Reply #2 –
After attending the California RV show a couple weeks ago, I can assure you the poor quality has not changed. A lot more bells and whistles, though.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Travel encounter
Reply #3 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
After attending the California RV show a couple weeks ago, I can assure you the poor quality has not changed. A lot more bells and whistles, though.

When attending RV shows, I tend too often 'trip' and bump an interior wall of the RV being inspected, just to see how much deflection is felt.
Minimal deflection is a good sign. 
A fews times I have felt something move or crack inside the wall, not a sign of quality construction.
Give this a try in a LD and you are likely to hurt yourself. Don't worry, the LD will be fine.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
 
Re: Travel encounter
Reply #4 –
I just went to an RV show at the Pima County fairgrounds in Tucson AZ.  Most of the RVs below $130k had a cheap feel and smell to them.  I looked at a Tiffin wayfarer, which is built on a Mercedes chassis and the fit and finish was terrible.  Looks like they are pushing to get as many out as possible.  And as I understand it, the Tiffin brand is considered a good quality product.  However, the electronic doodads are very interesting.  Dont know how well they hold up over time.  I do like the lane keeping and emergency braking abilities.  
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #5 –
That is disappointing to hear about Tiffins.  They were one of the top 5 for quality when we started looking several years ago.
I heard while they did have slides and the slides did have problems, they (unlike other manufacturers) stood behind their work and quickly fixed slide problems that happened.
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #6 –
My very last job was selling high end hospital IT systems.   I spent many hours flying here and there.   I was the 'booth babe' at the tech shows.   We aways assume the company (whatever that company was) put the best product they had up for display.    My point is, I assume what I'm looking at on the show room floor is the best they have.   It can only go down hill from there.

I have come to the conclusion that the RV world depends on the  buyers to be in love with some idea before they come thru the door.   

glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Travel encounter
Reply #7 –
Quote from: parussky  - 
  I looked at a Tiffin wayfarer, which is built on a Mercedes chassis and the fit and finish was terrible.

The TIffin Wayfarers have an OCCC of something like 700 pounds, so they'rebound to be overloaded on the road.
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #8 –
Prior to the purchase of our Lazy Daze, we visited RV outlets and shows.  We saw a Winnebago View, brand new, and the table had tipped over, as in the post and plate had pulled out of the flooring.  It was secured to the floor with 3/4 to 1 inch wood screws and someone had leaned on it.  We saw a new Coachman with a rubber roof and the rubber roof material had a big wrinkle in it.  How many buyers climb up onto the roof to check it?  We saw another Coachman with an exterior outlet that had  just fallen off the outside skin and was hanging by the wires.  We saw a Forest River fifth wheel and the axle weight tags combined were less than the GVWR of the fifth wheel. The salesman looked incredulous when I climbed under the coach to check the build quality.
Then of course, there were the OCCC inadequacies.

When we visited the Mother Ship, Todd took me through the construction area and I was impressed by what I saw.
We bought the Lazy Daze.

Harold
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #9 –
Just another viewpoint:  A good friend of mine, and retired engineer, bought a 2017 Winnebago View with 2500 miles.  He has put 12000 miles on it and has installed 300W of solar, cameras on all sides for driving and security, built a tire rack so tire isnt under the floor, and many other custom items.  He says that the build quality was decent although he has repaired a few items rather than take it back to the dealer.  I do like the look of the View, and the slides, but you feel like you are in prison when you are inside.  The windows on the LD make a huge difference.
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #10 –
"there were the OCCC inadequacies."
----
The three most widely used platforms for B, 'B+', small C rigs are the Mercedes Sprinter, Ford Transit, and the Ram Promaster; the maximum GVWR of each of these (in order of listing) is 11030 pounds, 10360 pounds, and 9350 pounds.

While the GVWR of each of the chassis may be readily available, discovering the true base/dry/'unladen' weight of the various coaches built on the chassis by several manufacturers is very difficult; either these numbers are not listed on the rig's spec sheets, nor on the weight sheet inside the rig, and certainly not from a salesperson, who (in my experience) is unlikely to know anything about the available NCC (or OCC, or whatever the acronym is now). 

I suspect that most, if not all, of the B, B+, C offerings from various manufacturers built on any one of the chassis above, but particularly the Ram, are close (or very close, at, or over) to the GVWR before adding propane, water, fuel, occupants, equipment, and supplies. I asked two salespeople (at a show) what the 'dry' weights were of two rigs (each with a slide) built on the MB and the Transit; one salesperson said, "People don't really care about that." The other said, "Well, I don't know, but a manufacturer would never make a motorhome that was overweight."






2003 TK has a new home
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #11 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
"While the GVWR of each of the chassis may be readily available, discovering the true base/dry/'unladen' weight of the various coaches built on the chassis by several manufacturers is very difficult; either these numbers are not listed on the rig's spec sheets, nor on the weight sheet inside the rig, and certainly not from a salesperson, who (in my experience) is unlikely to know anything about the available NCC (or OCC, or whatever the acronym is now). 

I suspect that most, if not all, of the B, B+, C offerings from various manufacturers built on any one of the chassis above, but particularly the Ram, are close (or very close, at, or over) to the GVWR before adding propane, water, fuel, occupants, equipment, and supplies. I asked two salespeople (at a show) what the 'dry' weights were of two rigs (each with a slide) built on the MB and the Transit; one salesperson said, "People don't really care about that." The other said, "Well, I don't know, but a manufacturer would never make a motor home that was overweight."

One of the things that immediately sold us on Lazy Daze was that we didn't have to play detective to ascertain it has adequate cargo capacity (and the fact that they're completely upfront about the OCCC on their spec sheet).

We researched B and B+ rigs before settling on Lazy Daze and it was honestly like pulling teeth to get someone to reveal the cargo capacity (we even ran across one with an OCCC under 500 pounds).

Safest bet is to see the OCCC with your own eyes by looking at the yellow sticker on an actual vehicle .
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #12 –
While at the RV show in Pomona, I looked at a motorhome on a Sprinter chassis that had an OCCC of about 800lb.  I commented to the salesman that by the time I added water, food, propane, tools, my wife and the dog, we would be close to or over the GVWR.  There would be no room for the tongue weight of our enclosed trailer with the motorcycle.

He said the number on the yellow tag in the door was a typo.

2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #13 –
Quote from: Kit  - 
One of the things that immediately sold us on Lazy Daze was that we didn't have to play detective to ascertain it has adequate cargo capacity (and the fact that they're completely upfront about the OCCC on their spec sheet).

We researched B and B+ rigs before settling on Lazy Daze and it was honestly like pulling teeth to get someone to reveal the cargo capacity (we even ran across one with an OCCC under 500 pounds).

Safest bet is to see the OCCC with your own eyes by looking at the yellow sticker on an actual vehicle .

Quote from: Joan  - 
"there were the OCCC inadequacies."
----
The three most widely used platforms for B, 'B+', small C rigs are the Mercedes Sprinter, Ford Transit, and the Ram Promaster; the maximum GVWR of each of these (in order of listing) is 11030 pounds, 10360 pounds, and 9350 pounds.

While the GVWR of each of the chassis may be readily available, discovering the true base/dry/'unladen' weight of the various coaches built on the chassis by several manufacturers is very difficult; either these numbers are not listed on the rig's spec sheets, nor on the weight sheet inside the rig, and certainly not from a salesperson, who (in my experience) is unlikely to know anything about the available NCC (or OCC, or whatever the acronym is now). 

I suspect that most, if not all, of the B, B+, C offerings from various manufacturers built on any one of the chassis above, but particularly the Ram, are close (or very close, at, or over) to the GVWR before adding propane, water, fuel, occupants, equipment, and supplies. I asked two salespeople (at a show) what the 'dry' weights were of two rigs (each with a slide) built on the MB and the Transit; one salesperson said, "People don't really care about that." The other said, "Well, I don't know, but a manufacturer would never make a motorhome that was overweight."


This has NOT been our experience. We are former Mid Bath owners (loved that one), but for various reasons now own a Winnebago Travato, built on the 2019 Ram 3500 chassis. Door tag lists about 1700 lbs OCCC. After loading as much as we could (we have the model 59K), we had it weighed. And the results... we still have over 900 lbs we could still load into it. I would not think this is "close".
On the other hand, I had really wanted a Tiffin, but ran into the problem of only 600 to 800 lb. OCCC. So, water, wife, me and a bag of potato chips and we're over loaded. Or close. :)
Ken
Former 2009 MB owner
Re: Travel encounter - Motorhome Quality
Reply #14 –
Quote from: Ken and Joyce  - 
This has NOT been our experience. We are former Mid Bath owners (loved that one), but for various reasons now own a Winnebago Travato, built on the 2019 Ram 3500 chassis. Door tag lists about 1700 lbs OCCC.

Winnebago seems to be doing a nice job of improving the OCCC, especially on rigs that don't have slides like the Travato.

Best guess is having a slide on a B/B+ gives you an OCCC of 250-350 pounds less than a comparable rig without the slide.
2018 Mid-Bath Beatrix (bringer of joy)