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Topic: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019 (Read 12027 times) previous topic - next topic
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2004 Shorty on rvtrader
Reply #301 –
2004 Shorty on RVTrader
81,000 miles, $22,950
Powell, OH
Marcia Boynton
2005 26.5 RK
Adrian and Northport, MI
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #303 –
This Wednesday I will do a thorough inspection of the 2002 26.5ft LD (yes, it's 2002, not 2003). A professional inspector will do most of the evaluation (I hope), but I also want to be sure he puts appropriate emphasis on potential issues.

Endcaps are a particular concern. I remember the sealant looks pretty bad and the seller tells me LD did not feel the need to do something about it (not sure what the exact communication was). The front driver side endcap has a crack that goes almost completely across.

Question: how do I best evaluate potential rot due to water intrusion around the endcaps?

In particular this thread gets me concerned:

Quote from: Cor2man  - 
An inspection would have found some slightly soft wood right behind the bumper, in reality everything else was completely solid.

I have one of these endoscope cameras - any ideas if / how it possibly could be used to check for rot in "hidden" spots? E.g. is the encap open from the bottom so the camera can possibly be pushed up into the corner space behind the endcap?

Thanks for all advice, I am better understand the potential perils of an almost 20 years old LD. My wife likes it, but she does not read this forum ...
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #304 –
Cor2man's mention of behind the bumper is actually in front of the rear bumper. The wood there starts out treated, but sand blasting and small rocks erode the coating. I also had some pretty much just bare (at 18 years or so) wood as part of the mud flaps on the duals. On that I replaced the wood with some treated lumber. Soaked in Terminate, and coated with black spray on undercoating. Some type of asphalt from the smell of it. Under the coach in back by the bumper I sprayed another can full of that undercoating on everything that looked like wood. I scraped off any loose stuff first. Then hosed it off and let it dry. The good thing is you can lay on your back. I try to avoid the split loom wiring in case I need to get into that at a later date. Also some tape on the painted part of the bumper will prevent overspray from curling up under and getting on the 'good' side of the bumper. A pain to clean off.  Even messier on yourself. I used a sheet of cardboard to protect the driveway from drips.
    There is a small space at the rounded part of the end caps. You might get an endoscope in there but the one I have wouldn't be able to see much sideways. A wide angle lens just isn't good enough, and there isn't enough room to tilt the lens to see. The few times I've seen the wood under an edge cap, it was very well coated, so just a cosmetic issue. Older than 20 years I have heard that there was an opportunity for some rot, but you should ask Larry Wade.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #305 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Soaked in Terminate, and coated with black spray on undercoating. ...

Good suggestion! I will look behind / under the bumper for signs of rot or degradation. If I understand correctly that does not necessarily point to anything wrong with the structure, as that part presumably gets soaked regularly when driving in the rain.

Quote from: RonB  - 
Older than 20 years I have heard that there was an opportunity for some rot, but you should ask Larry Wade.

Put differently: how does one find out about rot (and leaks)? The more I read on this forum I gather that once the problem is obvious, it's too late (unless your name is Cor2man). I look forward for suggestions from Larry (and others).
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #308 –
Quote from: ttmetro  - 
Good suggestion! I will look behind / under the bumper for signs of rot or degradation. If I understand correctly that does not necessarily point to anything wrong with the structure, as that part presumably gets soaked regularly when driving in the rain.

Put differently: how does one find out about rot (and leaks)? The more I read on this forum I gather that once the problem is obvious, it's too late (unless your name is Cor2man). I look forward for suggestions from Larry (and others).

Take an ice pick and something to lay on (cardboard). The bottom of the rear wall, pointed out by Ron, is good place to see if there is widespread damage in the rear wall. Check all the way across the rear wall, rot in the corners is a sign of leaking end caps. Rot in the middle can be from a leaking rear window or poorly sealed spare tire bucket. Rot all the way across is very bad news.
From the interior, poke around the bottom corners of the window and in the corners, where the rear and side walls meet.

An endoscope is of very limited usefulness when it come to rot detection, you can't get the scope into the the places where rot could be seen. I have an endoscope and never use it for rot detection.
An ice pick is your best tool, when it hits rotted wood, you will instantly know it.

Larry

 
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
 
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #310 –
Quote from: ttmetro  - 
2000 30' TK on Craigslist (Walnut Creek, CA)
2000 LAZY DAZE - rvs - by owner - vehicle automotive sale
From the description:
$400 SPARK PLUG MODIFICATION AS RECOMMENDED IN 2016

The rig probably had its spark plugs changed, torqued to the revised higher 28-ft/lbs.
2003 and older V10s only had 4 threads securing the spark plugs, blown out spark plugs is a fairly common occurrence in these rigs.
Ford originally  had a low spark plug torque specification for these rigs, later updated to the high torque spec.


Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #311 –
Quote from: ttmetro  - 
2000 30' TK on Craigslist (Walnut Creek, CA)
2000 LAZY DAZE - rvs - by owner - vehicle automotive sale

From the description:
$400 SPARK PLUG MODIFICATION AS RECOMMENDED IN 2016

Anybody knows what this is? I've read about "preventive" work on the plugs (Very High Reliability Vehicles) but at much higher cost.

Bernhard

I would be cautious with this one. It’s the same ad I’ve seen that says it’s located in Tehachapi and other areas:

2000 LAZY DAZE - rvs - by owner - vehicle automotive sale
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #313 –
Below a few pictures of the LD (a 2002 26.5' IB) I am checking out.

  • The end and front caps are all in rather poor shape. A lot of delamination and cracks where screws had been used. The seller is not sure who put in those screws, but thinks it was likely LD when he brought it in (apparently a few times). They are painted in exactly the correct tone - as if they were put in when it was constructed. Any idea why the paint is blistered in some spots?
    I assume that this can be repaired with sufficient cleaning (the owner tried to seal a few spots with something he thinks was a silicone sealant - not sure what I will be able to do about that) and an impressive amount of 3M 5200? I doubt it's possible to get them off without breaking along the numerous cracks. Also, the screws have to be removed.
  • I did not see any water intrusion in the back wall of the coach. The coating behind the bumper looks still pretty good and the wood is firm. I also could not detect problems in the compartment, although the back wall is not directly visible as even in the storage bay LD uses paneling. Quality!
  • The interior paneling below the passenger side bedroom window is wavy and the nails to hold the panel are slightly rusted.  The wall (inside and out) is firm. Presumably the water gets in somewhere through or around the window. Can this likely be repaired by cleaning and reseating the seals and sealing around the window, or is this typically a bigger task?
  • The roof was resealed ~ 8 years ago by a former LD employee (Tim Pierce?). The rubbery material is still flexible but a few screws are starting to show. Presumably needs to be cleaned and covered with Eternabond after covering the exposed screw heads with 3M 5200?
  • The tires were replaced 1/2016 (manufacturing date mid 2015). Brand is TOYO LT225/75R16 115 S and the cost per tire was only $125! Does anybody know this brand? Can they be trusted?

An inspector was checking out the rig today, and I'll report on that experience when I get the report. In the meantime I appreciate feedback on the issues raised above, especially the level of work required to address them and possibly how this reasonably should affect the price of the vehicle.

Bernhard
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #314 –
It does not look like a well loved LD. The lifted caps and blistering paint are a giveaway.
The first two photos show water intrusion. Lifted and/or poorly resealed end caps are a major source of leaks and the cause of rot. End caps are often screwed down when built if a cap isn't laying flat. I use a lot of stainless-steel screws, when sealing caps, to pull the caps back into position, after cleaning, taping and application of 5200 FC. The screws remain afterwards, they are well sealed in place.

A lot of damage can be hidden where it is very difficult to examine. Rusted interior nails is a sure sign of moisture problems.
I have seen many cases where the paneling is slightly damaged and the framing beneath is destroyed, especially around windows.
The sealant used on the exterior of the window frames shrinks with age and will eventually develop leaks if not periodically resealed, this is the other common source of water damage.
If silicone had been used to seal anything, it will be very difficult to reseal, once a surface has been exposed to silicone RTV, the surface is poisoned, nothing will stick to it again without sanding down to bare metal.

See what the inspector says.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #315 –
ttmetro

I'm going to be brutally frank... run, do not walk, but run away from this one.  :o  There will be others!     ::)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #316 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
ttmetro

I'm going to be brutally frank... run, do not walk, but run away from this one.  :o  There will be others!     ::)
You might use the radiator cap replacement procedure on that one.  Undo the radiator cap and roll another LD under it.
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
NRVIA inspection of a 2002 26.5' IB
Reply #317 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
See what the inspector says.

Larry

The inspection was done by an NRVIA level 1 inspector. It was very detailed and took several hours (I was present from the start but left after 4 hours before the inspection was complete).

Note: when I told the seller about my intention to hire a professional inspector he opted to do this himself and he also paid for the inspection. I do not believe that this affected the result of the report.

The report is a 13 page table of topics with handwritten results of the inspection. It is rather terse, often just listing items (down to details like serial numbers)  and condition (acceptable/fair/poor). There is no overall assessment or summary. Also 179 jpeg pictures, labeled numerically and referred to in the report but unfortunately not by this number (I actually can't access them because of a google docs permission issue, so possibly they contain a caption with more information). No driving test.

The report starts with the exterior: "Roof is Aluminum and not glued to the sub roof". It further states that the caulk shows signs of wear and does the same for the vents. Few more details like shower sky light shows cracked edges. Another comment: "water seems to puddle at the rear of a/c unit".

In the sidewall section the report states "paint is fair, decals are aging, caulk is worn). It also notes a dent in the rear bumper. No mention about front or endcaps or blistered paint.

On the interior the report is similarly detailed and identifies an electrical problem "GFCI keeps tripping". The inspector tested all appliances. In the section about walls it finds no issues: "Gen con of Walls: Acceptable, Water Damaged Wall Panels: No".

My take:

For me, this report is of limited value. Testing all appliances, light fixtures, etc is laborious, and I think on this part the report is thorough and reliable (even checking the temperature of the coffee heated in the microwave).

However, the report failed to note any water intrusion. At least the wavy wall panel below the rear side window is obvious and should have been noted, as well as the two nails with rust stains. Same for the cracked endcaps. The blistered paint - I'd expect a licensed inspector to be familiar with this and note it appropriately in the report (I learned about it on this site).

I'm not sure I will use such a service again. Perhaps for a pre-screening of an RV far from my home.

I agree with others that this 26.5' IB has issues. Lots of deferred maintenance on the endcaps, window and roof seals. And possible water damage to the structure.

It is too bad, because both my wife and I liked the layout and think it would be a good fit for our needs. The interior is extremely well taken care of and looks no different from the new LDs we inspected at the factory. The owners took very good care, but maintenance of seals etc is not their thing and I don't blame them for that (I feel I have to defend them from the "love" comment). Unfortunately this means the RV lasts for only 15 years or so and then needs replacement.

My wife and I learned a lot about RVs, including the challenges of attaching ABS encaps to an aluminum exterior structure.

This site is terrific. If an LD is in our future we will continue to make lots of use of it. Many thanks to all!
Re: Non-member Classified Listings for 2019
Reply #318 –
Quote from: ttmetro  - 
No driving test.
I was surprised to read this as the chassis needs to be checked out well (as well as the generator) - this person/company may/may not have stated they don't do that at the time of hiring.

I have had a fair amount of house inspections done and the inspectors - even from the same company - can be extremely knowledgeable (truly understanding systems and potential problems) or of no value at all (not even writing down condition or appliance information, let alone understanding potential problems).
I have learned to pick good inspectors but I personally interview them before hiring them.

Maybe 5% are really good and understand the systems, water issues, etc. well enough to be able to warn of potential problems and letting you know to get a specialist inspection for a specific area. 
I have had ones walk in and have no clue what to look at and also ones like yours that just plain make a list of what they can see.  It took stumbling upon a very good one and a very bad one to learn how to pick ones that are very good and importance of that.

It sounds like this person just wrote down observations without being able to list potential issues and maybe was more familiar with houses than RVs (so they didn't look for water intrusion areas though that is important in houses also).

For a first look at something not close to you sometimes you can find a LD owner close by that will go take a look (ask on the forum).
Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.