Getting Fresh Tires September 12, 2019, 12:08:50 pm I thought this may be of interest to the group. Recently, I purchased new Michelin Defender tires for my Subaru from Tire Rack and had them installed by a local tire shop. I was a little disappointed that the tires were approx. 9 months old so I mentioned it when Tire Rack sent out their satisfaction survey. Overall, I was very happy with them, except for the date codes on the tires I received.To be frank, I'm not really worried since they will be used up within three years or so. I would purchase from them again. I was thinking ahead to the time when I may want to replace RV tires and would prefer to get fresher tires in that case. Here is their response to my question about getting "fresher" tires:Thanks for taking the time to respond to our survey. Customer Survey Response - Order DY23706“I was a bit disappointed that the tire I received were over 9 months old (date code of weeks 47 and 48 of 2018. Is there a way to get "fresher" tires?”I'm sorry you are disappointed with the production date of the tires you purchased from us. As you found, it's been a little over 9 months since your tires were manufactured. Like all of the tire manufacturers, Michelin realizes their tires will always spend some time in the distribution channel before being installed on a vehicle. This is why their product warranty (even for age-related conditions such as weather cracking, etc.) begins on the day you install your tires, not the date they were manufactured. Recognizing that (properly stored) tires don’t really begin to age until they are put into service on a vehicle, most manufacturers use 3 years from production as the earliest cut off to send tires into the distribution channel. From there Tire Rack allows up to another year, for a total of 4 years since date manufacture for tires leaving our warehouse (which also maintains “proper storage”). This still allows for another 6 years of service before reaching the general 10 year total life limitation recommended by some of the manufacturers, including Michelin. Also, Michelin warranties their tire against defects for 6 years from installation date.Looking at it from the front end, it takes months for tires to move through the supply chain. Tires are produced and staged in batches (often thousands at a time), loaded into containers for rail transit to the manufacturer’s distribution centers. After a few weeks in transit and staging they are unloaded, trucked to the manufacturer’s regional distribution warehouse where they await our order. Once we order, tires move on to our warehouse where they wait to be shipped to you.I looked at our deliveries from Michelin, and we have been receiving regular deliveries from them. As you might expect, we use a first in-first out inventory management system to avoid tires getting “old” sitting on the shelf as newer inventory arrives. I don’t have the specific receipt date at my fingertips, but the tires we shipped out to you were delivered to us by Michelin at the end of May or the middle of July. A quick check of our other warehouses shows deliveries from Michelin along the same timeline, and outbound product going to our customers with similar production dates to what we sent you. So at the moment we do not have any tires in any of our warehouses that are significantly newer than the ones you have.I am confident that your Michelin tires will provide you with years of good service. Feel free to contact me with any additional product questions you have about your tires or would like to discuss tire age further. Thank you for your continued business, and best regards,-WoodyWoody Rogers | Director, Tire Product Information 3 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #1 – September 12, 2019, 05:50:54 pm Greg,Good for Tire Rack! The reply to your feedback was really informative, and more than one would expect. It reinforces (more thoroughly) what I was told when ordering four new Michelin Defenders for the rear on my rig in late February here in Arkansas. I asked the tire shop owner to please get me the most recently manufactured tires he could. He said that he'd do his best, but that Michelin (or others) don't 'have a line' that is in continuous production for a particular tire, so all is based on the most recent production run. Further, he said that good supplier practice recommends 'first in, first out', so tires "should be" reasonably fresh. Despite that, he said he'd request the newest tires they could find, with no guarantee of course that the supplier would honor it. When I went to have them installed a few days later, he gave me some welcome news, date code on my set was 5018. I replaced my front tires in early 2018. They have a date code of 4217, so both runs later in their respective years. It would be interesting to know the date codes that others with Michelin Defenders have. I know nothing about the manufacturing process for tires, but thinking about it, can easily imagine that once a 'line' is changed for a specific tire, (materials, process, etc.), they make all they think they'll need for 6 months or a year? Maybe if one is getting ready to purchase Michelin Defender's proactively, doing so shortly after the new year may be a good time to do it? Thanks for sharing. It's good information!Bill 1 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #2 – September 13, 2019, 10:41:50 am While this reply demonstrates a willingness to respond to a customer inquiry/concern, and while the information in the response may apply to an online ordering source of tires where one takes what is sent, IMO, I suggest taking the information provided with the proverbial grain of salt, particularly as it may apply to tires used on an RV. (Greg's post indicates that the tires ordered from Tire Rack were for an SUV, a critical difference, IMO.)"Like all of the tire manufacturers, Michelin realizes their tires will always spend some time in the distribution channel before being installed on a vehicle."Michelin and other manufacturers produce runs of millions of tires in various locations for many applications, and, yes, it likely does take "months for tires to run through the supply chain" because there are so many tires for so many applications. However, my concern is specifically with LT225/75R/16E tires, the appropriate application for the LD. The Michelin Defenders on my rig were installed on 9 August, 2018; the manufacturing date on all 6 is 2718, i.e., they were produced during the first week of July, 2018. The "distribution channel" of the tire shop I use is apparently different from the one used by Tire Rack." most manufacturers use 3 years from production as the earliest cut off to send tires into the distribution channel. From there Tire Rack allows up to another year, for a total of 4 years since date manufacture for tires leaving our warehouse (which also maintains "proper storage"). This still allows for another 6 years of service before reaching the general 10 year total life limitation recommended by some of the manufacturers, including Michelin. Also, Michelin warranties their tire against defects for 6 years from installation date."So, four-year-old tires are "new" as long as they've been "properly stored"? How does a supplier or a customer know under what conditions tires have been shelved? And Michelin (and "some of the manufacturers") set a "general 10 year life limitation" for service? A "warranty against defects" is all well and good, but I'm pretty sure that claiming a "defect" on a blown 10-year-old tire might be a very difficult task! IMO, anyone running 10-year-old tires on any vehicle, but particularly an RV, is nuts! "we use a first in-first out inventory management system to avoid tires getting "old" sitting on the shelf as newer inventory arrives."Didn't the rep say that the tires didn't "get old" sitting on the shelf? It's not my concern which brand of tires owners choose to install on their vehicles, but I do think it's critical to do the research and get the freshest and very best tires for the specific application. And, in my experience, it is worth the frog-kissing drag to find a local tire shop with stable management, competent, trained installers, and which prides itself on high quality products, work, and solid customer service. It may cost a few more bucks, but since good "rig feet" are essential to our lifestyle, well worth the time and effort it may involve.YMMV, for sure. 2 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #3 – September 13, 2019, 12:34:17 pm FWIW, Michelin no longer produces the Defender LTX in LT225/75R/16 E:Truck Tires, Car Tires and more – Michelin TiresThe Defender has been replaced (in the LT225/75R/16 E) with the Agilis CrossClimate:Truck Tires, Car Tires and more – Michelin Tires 1 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #4 – September 13, 2019, 04:06:42 pm I agree with what Joan is saying. What I learned last time I looked for (and bought) tires.RV tires sell less often (than common car tires) so they spend more time sitting. Manufacturers apparently make tires in batches and for less common tires they make the batches less often. So it depends when the last batch was created. Also, the retail outlets want to sell the oldest ones first (so even if they have a fresh batch they want to get rid of the older ones first). Instead ask what DOT they can get and ask to see what they got before they install it (so you can give final approval). 6 months old is common, it can be much older.
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #5 – September 13, 2019, 04:25:26 pm "Recognizing that (properly stored) tires don't really begin to age until they are put into service on a vehicle, most manufacturers use 3 years from production as the earliest cut off to send tires into the distribution channel."Really -- smile ......I was very interested in the reply. The minute a tire is made it is aging. As my man Bob Dylan once sang 'a person not busy being born is busy dying'. The very nature of life makes it so. In my life I've worked too hard to toss my money out the door. I, like Joan, don't care what brand of tire a person buys. OK I do care in the idea I'm on the road so I'm hoping all drivers are being safe in the best manner they can. Between you and me I'd feel very very upset if I discovered a tire I paid in the range of $200 is over three years of age before I put one mile on them. There is a reason tires are date stamped. No warranty can change chemical reactions. glenp.s. I use the local Discount Tire. They had no problem with my request for less then 3 month old tires. In fact the manager was a bit taken back I even had to ask.
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #6 – September 13, 2019, 07:11:49 pm Quote from: HiLola - September 12, 2019, 12:08:50 pm As you found, it's been a little over 9 months since your tires were manufactured. Like all of the tire manufacturers, Michelin realizes their tires will always spend some time in the distribution channel before being installed on a vehicle. This is why their product warranty (even for age-related conditions such as weather cracking, etc.) begins on the day you install your tires, not the date they were manufactured. Recognizing that (properly stored) tires don’t really begin to age until they are put into service on a vehicle, most manufacturers use 3 years from production as the earliest cut off to send tires into the distribution channel. From there Tire Rack allows up to another year, for a total of 4 years since date manufacture for tires leaving our warehouse (which also maintains “proper storage”). This still allows for another 6 years of service before reaching the general 10 year total life limitation recommended by some of the manufacturers, including Michelin. Also, Michelin warranties their tire against defects for 6 years from installation date.Another comment, everyone should check their warranty before they buy to not get surprised later on.While car tires might have longer warranty periods (ours are nearer 6 years from install if I remember right, I never bothered to check the DOT on those), our RV tires were only warrantied for 4 years since DOT. Therefore having a tire that is already 6, 9, or 12 months old makes a difference.We have an uncommon size, so those with newer rigs might find longer warranties.Jane
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #7 – September 14, 2019, 11:42:16 pm "The minute a tire is made it is aging."A mounted tire will have 65-80 psi, potentially heated and cooled over a 0 to 120 degree range, and the outside will be subjected to sunlight and pollutants. Won't those conditions significantly accelerate the aging?
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #8 – September 15, 2019, 04:16:54 am Eric, lots of sunlight and heat can deteriorate them sooner (AZ summers are hard on tires) and we did have one set replaced when the tread was still good - we got a small discount as the warrenty was still in effect. In other states we always used the tread up first. However, it was not that much difference.Tires do start degrading as soon as they are manufactured no matter how they are stored.Here is a write-up on it (just one I found when searching the internet).The Science of Tire AgingJane
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #9 – September 16, 2019, 10:54:21 am Quote from: Jane and Scott - September 15, 2019, 04:16:54 amTires do start degrading as soon as they are manufactured no matter how they are stored. An interesting article that concluded the degradation during storage was far less than when the tire is mounted, which is what the Tire Rack reply indicated, and what I suspected, based on my modest knowledge of chemistry. From the article:“Tires are primarily degrading from the inside-out, due [to] permeation and reaction of the pressurized oxygen within the tire structure, with rates proportional to temperature.” - Summary of NHTSA Tire Aging Test Development Research"Tires may age somewhat in storage, but they don't start to age until they are mounted and filled with air."A related issue is spare tires, which are often new but never replaced, and can be the oldest tire on the vehicle. Since they are mounted and under pressure, they are degrading much like a tire on vehicle. My car, van, and motorhome have spares from 9 to 18 years old that look perfect. I consider them "emergency spares", good enough to go 50 miles at 50-60 mph to the tire store for a new tire.
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #10 – September 16, 2019, 11:10:38 am Quote from: Eric Greenwell - September 16, 2019, 10:54:21 am"Tires may age somewhat in storage, but they don't start to age until they are mounted and filled with air."A related issue is spare tires, which are often new but never replaced, and can be the oldest tire on the vehicle. Since they are mounted and under pressure, they are degrading much like a tire on vehicle. My car, van, and motorhome have spares from 9 to 18 years old that look perfect.So, for the best long term storage of the spare is to leave it deflated? With an onboard air compressor, this shouldn't be a big problem, if it really makes a difference..When I replace tires, usually the best old tire is turned into the spare, eliminating running spare tires that are over ten years old. I'm a little gun shy, having an old spare blow out years ago before making it to a town with a tire dealer. There are a lot places here in the West where the nearest tire shop may be a couple hundred miles away.Larry
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #11 – September 16, 2019, 11:30:48 am I carry a 12V compressor (Viair 400P RV) for airing tires on the road, but the the spare (a relatively new tire, but less expensive than the Michelins running on the 6 wheels) is carried inflated to the max of 80 pounds. There is likely a minor amount of deterioration/aging when the spare tire is inflated on the rim, but the tire is protected from exposure by the cover, and having the spare already inflated is less time consuming/inconvenient for the Coach Net person who shows up to put it on. I hope not to need their services, but one never knows. YMMV, as always. 1 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #12 – September 18, 2019, 02:52:06 pm I'm a little late to the party on this thread. For our 07 MidBath I purchased six Michelin Agilis tires the first week of this month from Alban Tire in Springfield VA. The date codes were all 3019 or 3119 so mid July this year for the tires "birth month". When calling before hand I mentioned that these were for an RV and I wanted fresh tires. He said the tires only recently came out so by default they were all more less new, but would get me a good set. The shop's price was also very close to those from Tire Rack, and FMCA. Coach Net never got back to me on the cost. Buying from Alban cost me a little more but not much especially after adding in the fees and in the case of FMCA the cost of gas to travel to the place that did their work. When I got the quote it was for the six and I asked the per tire price (he had the calculator right there). I go to this shop for chassis work and the annual Virginia Safety inspection so I may have got some repeat customer preference when they realized I was shopping around. So I am very happy. 1 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #13 – September 18, 2019, 05:21:03 pm That was a very good response from Tire Rack for sure. We bought some RV trailer tires from Tire Rack last August and the tires that came in were only a few months old. They shipped them to my installer and covered the install cost as well with the tire cost so overall I was happy. Especially since finding those specific tires (Goodyear Endurance) I wanted locally was not possible. Lots of people carry cheap trailer tires, but finding good ones is another story. Now that we have the LD in need of new tires I plan to do the same I did last time and check some local prices then compare with Tire Rack.
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #14 – September 18, 2019, 06:43:29 pm Quote from: WestLikeTheDirection - September 18, 2019, 05:21:03 pm.... Now that we have the LD in need of new tires I plan to do the same I did last time and check some local prices then compare with Tire Rack.I was very surprised to find a place close to what the Tire Rack charged per tire. It was a first for me.PS & off topic. Glad to see the quote button working for the iPhone. 2 Likes
Re: Getting Fresh Tires Reply #15 – September 19, 2019, 05:42:01 pm FYI, since we are spending a big chunk of money when buying 6 tires, ask for a discount. The places I checked with all gave one (less than the per price tire X 6) but prices varied so shopping around even within the same company might give a better price.Jane
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